peter_bigblock

Okay, so I want to get some higher-perfomance all-season tires (rather than summer & winter tires). I've narrowed it down to :

Yokohama Avid V4s or Avon 550s

My main criteria are I want better dry handling, much better snow & wet handling, and improved ride (in that order, more or less) than OEM. I also want to stay in the $100-$120 per tire range.

What's you guys' advice/experience betwen these two? Tire Rack rates the Avons highly, that's how I'm leaning. Thoughts?

moda_way

My father-in-law just got a set of the Avon's for his MB. They look nice in person. I can tell you that in my experience, Yoko's Tread rating is a little liberal, but they are a great tire as my wife has the H4S on her Civic. My thoughts are, go with the Avons.

TSX.Fury

As I have said before, I love the Avons... best tires I have ever had. I have never had the Yoko's though so I can only comment on one side.

James

i JUST got them put in today... so far so good. It looks a little thicker than the OE tires, but so far so good. After the 500 mile break in period... ill let you know.

jlukja

James, which ones?

TSX Hokie

My boss just put the Avons on his A4, and he seems to like them so far. The sidewall looks alot nicer than my Fuzion ZRi. Obviously Tirerack reviewers and their internal tests love the Avons too.

Might as well throw the Falken 512s in there too. I hear they are a great performance all-season, and they fall in your price range. My neighbor has these on his Lincoln Mark VIII and loves them in every condition (wet/dry/snow).

peter_bigblock

Cool, thanks for the info, guys. The stock Michelins are okay for just tooling around but they suck in any kind of spirited driving -- just not enough stick. I may still consider buying a summer tire and keeping the OEMs as my winter tire. I've had no complaints about their traction in snowy-icy conditions or rain, but I'm a very conservative driver in those conditions and I know what I'm doing.

Plus, buying a summer tire and swapping back and forth really doesn't cost anything if, like me, you're going to keep the car long enough to need a second set of tires anyway. Hmmmm. . .

virtualbong

My coworker is looking for good all seasons as well, here's what I've found from my research:

Nokian WRs
Continental ContiExtreme
Falken Ziex 512s
Toyo Proxes TPt
Kumho Ecsta ASX

peter_bigblock

Is there a website (other than Tire Rack) that objectively & subjectively compares tires, owner opinions, etc?

moda_way

I don't know of any off hand, but I can tell you TireRack is probably the most worthy information. Personally, you can't go terribly wrong with either tire. You have to decide what is your most important criteria for tire purchasing. Avon and Yokohama have great tires.

peter_bigblock

I think you're right, and the prices are almost identical. I think I'm going with the Avon 550, I get the sense that it has better snow traction and gets pretty uniformly rave reviews on Tire Rack on all fronts. Just need to figure out how to explain to my wife that my tires, with 6/32" left, need to be replaced. Thanks, moda.

moda_way

Do what I did... state that the tires are unsafe in this kind of weather and you wouldn't want your child to be in an unsafe situation.

jlukja

LOL.

Tell her exactly that. Only 6/32" of tread left. Let her imagination take care of the rest.

peter_bigblock

That's exactly what I did to. Her response was, "Well, 6/32" is probably plenty until you put that catalytic thing on your car. When are you going to just leave the damn thing alone?" So, apparently, the warm glow of sportiness has worn off and she's back to wondering why I'm such a little mod-monkey.

She was the instigator of my Random Cat group (mom/dad/her/brother) Christmas gift, though. So at least she sort of gets me every now and then.

Just bought four Avon M550's from TireRack for $113 ea. including shipping directly to the installer. I'll likely put my stock Michelins on the Blackmarket in case someone wants to replace with the OEM tires and save quite a bit. They DO have 6/32", after all.

James

i got the Yokohama Avid V4s from tirerack.com for $104/tire and ~$40 for shipping sent directly to installer.

tires have about 250 miles on it now, and i must say it is way quieter and handles awesome in the rain. it's been raining this past month in San Fran so i got to test it out a bit... way grippier than the Michelins.

On dry roads, it is SMOOTH and feel the bumps less and is a lot quieter. My brother rode in the car with the new tires and said he could feel a difference too.

Definitely reccommend these tires.

peter_bigblock

Just got my 550's installed and, for the first 25 miles, I love them. They're much quieter than the stock Michelins, and they ride smoother. At the stock tire pressure, they ride positively dreamy, I've got them at 36/34 and they still ride great. I'm going to take the twisty route to work tomorrow and see how they handle -- might as well break them in the hard way.

They look great, too. And my experiences with Tire Rack and my local installer (Earl's Tire in Des Moines, in case there's another central Iowan in the group) were first-rate.

moda_way

Tire Rack is great... they have the best customer service. Glad to hear you like the 550s!! Told you... nearly impossible to be disappoint between the two choices.

peter_bigblock

Yep, you were right. I'm sure the Yokos are terrific, too, but I got the impression the Avons have better snow traction -- big deal in Iowa. After they're broken in, I'll post my impressions for people's reference. Is there a "Here Are The Tires People Have" sticky where I can post my opinion on these tires?

atlatr

I guess this is a bit late as you have already purchased the 550's. I recently bought the Yoko V4S from discount tire and have to say I'm disappointed. I am sure the tire is better over all compared to the OEM's but I have gone through 7 tires now and can't seem to get the hop out of them. I replace a front and both rears but still get a vibration in the "seat of the pants" above 60 mph. I am tired of spending my free time in the tire shop, so am looking at getting something else. I am leaning towards the BFG traction TA's or the Kumho AXS's....if anyone has any experience with either I would love to hear.
Cheers
ps The grip of the V4S it is better than OEM but the on center tracking is bad...very twitchy also the tires are a tiny bit quieter than OEM.

moda_way

Check this... there should be a colored dot on the tire. That dot should be over the valve stem in order for the tires to be balanced properly. This isn't to say it is impossible to balance without the dot there, but better chance if the dot is lined up.

Also, is it possible that you have a bent rim or that the shop you go to isn't that great at doing balancing?

I am only asking because it is extremely unusual for 7 different tires to not balance correctly and Yokohamas balance very easily.

atlatr

I do have a bent rim, thanks to a curb, but the old OEM's didn't have any vibrations even to the last day on the car. They have actually replaced 3 of the original 4 tires so a total of 7 tires have been put on the car.
I will check the dot, but I would hope a reputable store such as Discount Tire would know how to balance tires.
Thanks for the reply

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Did they perform a "road force" balance instead of the normal spin balance?

atlatr

Yes they did.......I went by today to have them take a look at the wheels and tires and come up with a solution while I ate lunch next door. When I came back hey had 4 new OEM tires on the car for $100 more than what I paid. I was a little pissed b/c I wanted a better performing tire but they have gone out of their way to help me out and this has taken way too much of both of our time. I left it the way it was and paid the difference.....Although the Michelins aren't the best performers they are a good all around tire for the TSX.
Final price for the Michelins was $504.37
On a side note Discount tire direct says the best seller for the TSX is the Yoko V4S but also causes the most complaints. It seems Yoko's and the TSX don't like each other.....
FYI....Acura and Discount tire recommend the Michelin's and Bridgestone (they don't even carry this brand/tire)
Oh well I'll suffer through these for another 30,000 miles
Cheers

Alin10123

So... update? Anyone go through the break in period yet and take them through the twisties?

Alin10123

Guess not.

peter_bigblock

Haven't checked back to this thread in a while. I've taken my M550's through some of the local twisty backroads and they hold the road at higher speeds than the OEM's, and with very predictable breakaway. I'm running 36/34 psi f/r to compensate for the lower load ratings and this seems to be the perfect balance between handling and comfort. On my favorite on- and off-ramps, the Avons can carry about 20 mph more than the stock tires before giving up. They don't feel super-sticky like summer tires, but they're considerably better in dry-pavement stick (once warmed up, I must add) than the OEM Michelins.

In the rain they really shine, you can launch like you're on dry pavement and they don't slip at all. It's an amazing feeling, at least for me being used to the OEM tires. I haven't messed around with wet-pavement cornering -- too little room for error on public roads.

Snow traction is about what I expected from A/S tires. The Avons are much better than the OEMs in light (couple inches) snow, turning, starting, and especially stopping. In deeper snow they're about the same, but, unless you venture off plowed roads, it rarely gets deeper than a couple inches in Des Moines.

Road noise is marginally better than the OEMs (as well as I can remember). The Avons are quieter on smoother road surfaces, but on the more common coarse, horse-shit concrete highways that most of our interstates have become, they're about the same as the Michelins.

I'd say the main drawback is they are average (for uhp a/s tires) in terms of weight. At 25 lbs, they're heavier than the OEMs and heavier than a couple alternatives I considered (Contis and Pirellis) -- the same weight, though, as the Yoko V4s.

Overall, I have to agree with the consensus of Tire Rack reviews. The Avons are terrific $104 uhp all-season tires. Their dry grip is very good, wet grip is outstanding, snow traction is good, handling precision and predictability are excellent, and they look terrific. Thumbs up!

Alin10123

Modaway... what color is the dot? It's wierd... on the drivers side my tires have 2 different colored dots. There's red and there's yellow. Which color should line up with the valve stem? Also... on the passengers side i can't see any dots... so in that case which way should they line up?

I'm asking because i just had the Avid's installed. They are pretty quiet. When on the highway i thought i wasn't going that fast becuase they were quiet. haha so i kept going faster and was expecting more road noise but didn't hear much. The radio also sounds much louder at the same volume setting i had it at. I can also hear the wind noise more. So i'm assuming that means they are much quieter. I'm sure after i get my windows tinted, the wind noise will be insulated better. I will do a full review shortly after i break the tires in.

But... nonetheless. I was asking about the colored dot becuase when i drove off the tire place, the ride was pretty smooth. But as soon as i hit the highway and hit 70mph, i could feel the steering wheel vibrate a little bit. Not as bad as the nightmare i had when i first got the car. But it's still there nonetheless. I went home and i retorqued all of the lugs to 35lbs the proper way with the torque wrench. Much smoother, but still vibrates a little bit. Do you think the problem is that the dots arent' lined up with the stems?

Is it the red dot or the yellow dot? My passenger side doesn't have any dots... so that's strange.

Any advice modaway?

thanks

JTso

iTrader: (2)

You better go back and torque the lugs some more to approx. 75 - 80lbs. 35lbs is not enough!

peter_bigblock

I'm no window tint expert, but I pretty certain that tint film won't insulate your cabin in any way. Off topic, I know, but it stood out in your post. Also, like JT said, torque spec for the wheel lugs is 80 lb-ft. If your tire shop only tightened them to 35, it makes me suspect all the more that they don't know what they're doing.

Alin10123

Ok. thanks. Retorqueing them tonight just to be sure.

Alin10123

haha, i've got no idea. I think i read that a couple of the members here reported less wind noise after they tinted their windows. Oh well...

jlukja

I remember elduderino saying that window tint actually helped with noise reduction.

peter_bigblock

So you're saying I know nothing about window tint and should just stick to replicating aftermarket performance parts using common household items?

jlukja

Essentially......



I'm just throwing my into the pot. I recall a conversation with him about sound deadening, Dynamat, etc. to reduce road noise and he mentioned that his TSX got quieter after he had it tinted.

scheißterhöffer

I was at my parents' house a couple days ago. The November Consumer Reports had tire ratings and one of those they reviewed was the Avid V4S. Knowing what I know about the stock Michelins and having read a good bit about the Yokos, I was surprised that the Yokos got the lowest possible rating for snow traction. The stock Michelins got the middle score (3/5) for snow traction. Everything I've read here and on tirerack has led me to believe the Yokos are far superior in pretty much every aspect, including snow traction.

If the Avons were more widely available, I'd probably buy them based on all the good reviews I've seen, I'm just not sure I want to find myself with a blowout and have to wait on shipping for a new tire. As such, it's always been my plan to buy the Yokos when the time comes. The CR ratings will not change that, but I was certainly surprised to see that rating after all that I'd heard about the tire.