At 88,500 miles, my water pump has to be replaced. I was honestly afraid what I was hearing was my timing chain making noise, so I took it in to a friend who is a former Acura mechanic and started his own shop. He quickly diagnosed the issue by removing the serpentine belt and ruling out other components. When he took the pump off he said the pump was pretty sloppy. So I now am waiting to get my TSX back. I did ask that he check the play in the timing tensioner so I know when that might come due.

The symptom was a metallic, abrasive noise coming from the passenger side of the motor. It almost sounded as if something was rubbing on the timing chain cover and the noise increased with RPM.

Thought I'd let everyone know.

 

Glad you found the problem.

 

Ha... I wish I found it. Would've saved me some $$ and I could've done a writeup on it. Oh well, I don't really have the time due to work at the moment. Just glad it wasn't that bad to have fixed.

 

Wow, stinks that it went bad. Very good that you found it. I had a water pump bearing go out on my Neon. Of course I couldn't hear it over that normal engine noise, so I had no idea. It eventually siezed up when I was on the turnpike and the engine was turning over 3k RPMs and snapped and the timing belt. Ahh, memories. That was the first of many times I had the head off that POS.

So, if you will allow me to ask a stupid question. The water pump is driven off the timing chain? I honestly just haven't looked. It was driven off one of the accessory belts in my Mazda. I found that out pretty quickly after I had a belt snap. Thankfully it wasn't the water pump belt, but it did take out the alternator. Anyway, I have this fear of water pump failure leaking to timing belt/chain failure after the Neon experience.

 

No, ours like all others are driven off the accessories (serpentine) belt. That's how the mechanic found out it WASN'T something else. The idea being, remove the belt and if the noise is still there, then it is associated to the motor, which is not the case in my case. It was one of the accessories because the noise disappeared when he turned the motor on without the belt on. I was only saying I was nervous it was my timing chain.

 

Okay, thanks for the clarification. After my Neon experience I make no assumptions about anything. The timing belt driven water pump I think is a horrible idea. But hey, what do I know?

 

Just got the call from my mechanic. Water pump is replaced and no more shitty sounds. Also checked my timing chain tension and said it looked fine. All the issues he had seen were problems of oil maintenance. Since I regularly check my oil (I do burn about 1 to 1 1/2 quarts per 5000 miles), that shouldn't be an issue for me.

 

Hmmm...I've been getting noise like a screeching sound from my engine bay, intermittently, also when my RPM's are up or accelerating. I figured it was my drive belt, but after hearing this, I'll have to see what else it could be.

Any idea when the water pump usually needs replacement? 110K? 120K?

 

It's standard practice to replace the water and oil pumps when you replace the timing chain/belt components if only because these things are typically crammed into the same inaccessible area. I believe the service interval is 110,000 miles for the timing chain. The water pump looks to be more readily accessible on this car than others I've seen/had though.

 

Biggest issue is tension on the belt. My mechanic, again has Acura experience for decades, said he has never felt this kind of tension. Evidently 2 of the bolts are also hidden and a little PITA to get to. Since I didn't do it myself, all I have is the word of my mechanic. I did get to see my water pump and feel the play in it.

 

Wait, are you saying the issue with the tensioner is that it's to... er, tense? This tensioner issue is weighing heavily on my mind.

 

Yeah. My mechanic has the Honda tool specifically for working on the car to take tension off of the tensioner. He's a big guy and said, "I tell ya what. Its no wonder this pump went bad. I'll never understand why Honda puts so much tension on the belt." Take that for what its worth.

 

The timing belt and Tensioner are a huge PITA to get to. I replaced mine a while back while I had the engine out. I looked in the service book to see how Acura does it and they have to pull the engine up a good 3-4 inches to get clearance. when I replaced it, it looked like it was in very good condition, and had very little stretch on it compared to the new one. It had 80,000 miles on it, and it looked like it had lots of live left. I did replace the water pump too, they are known to kick the bucket around 100k in 90% of cars. The water pump was the easiest thing about that whole project. Good thing it was the water pump and not the timing chain, that would have been expensive labor.

 

Hey moda_way:

I have a couple of questions:

1) This is the first time that I have seen someone on the TSX board with a bad water pump. Have you heard of other drivers on this board having the same problem?

2) If the serpentine belt drives the water pump, if the serpentine belt breaks, the car will start overheating right?

How do other Hondas have the water pump set up? I have had a 1987 Acura Integra. It had the water pump driven by the timing belt and not the drive belts if I am not mistaken.

3) What would have happened if you kept driving the car with the noise. Would the water pump probably have seized up and then tear up the Serpentine belt?

 

Read all above. K series engines come with metal chains instead of belts for the timing. Usually, 150K km or 90K miles, the metal chain will be worn, however, could come earlier depending how the car has been driven hard or not.

Fan belts for alternators to aircond compressors, usually 80K km change and indeed is correct that one should change the main belts at one go and the tension idler indeed requires a special Honda "key". Setting the tension back is important for honda engines. Take the chance to inspect the bearings before putting on a new belt.

metal chains will make noise once worn. Water pump, usually around 100K Km or 65K miles. Water pump goes, lots of problems. If change water pump, please get your radiator flushed out and checked. If there is plenty of dirt and residues, get it flsuhed off. Use new coolants and best stay with OEM Honda. Check rubber hoses too. Replace the stocks ones if you do a water pump job and radiator flush. The hoses are good for about 3 to 4 years, but with the heat n cold weather, the hoses detoriate pretty fast. Thus, just some preventative maintenace when one does the raditaor and water pump job.

 

I certainly haven't see this issue before.
You'll see other signs... like your alternator not charging the battery, so you'll get a warning light immediatly.

You typically see water pumps driven by an accessory belt.

Don't underestimate the annoyance of the sound coming from my old water pump. I'll put it to you this way, I was helping out a buddy with some interior capentry and while taking tools out of my car (which was idling), he said, "WTF is up with that POS." It was bad... really bad. So short of a catostrophic failure of the bearing/pump, I don't think you run the risk of the belt being torn up. Again, even if the belt does fail and shred, you'll see a charge warning light on your dash b/c if the belt isn't moving or isn't there, then your alternator would not be charging.

 

Didn't know about the service interval on the pump. I expected longer than 88k miles.

Yeah, I was pretty happy it wasn't the chain either, but that isn't going to break. I was more concerned about the tensioner, which is a known failure point on a few member's TSXs here. The over arching solution for that is, make sure your oil never runs low and always follow the maintenance schedule. My mechanic, as I stated before, has seen PLENTY of K series motors and he was more concerned about the A/C compressor than any of the other components. He did think the alternator bearing might have failed b/c there was a bit of rust on the front side of it, but that wasn't the case.

Again, he said the pump was making so much noise, it was resonating throughout the space making it impossible to locate the source, so it wasn't until he saw a little movement in the pulley while looking in the area that he knew it was the water pump. He even used a stethoscope and it simply was making so much noise that didn't work.

 

Where are you getting your information?

Timing chains are usually lifetime items. Timing belts, on the other hand, are not, and need to be changed periodically.

Water pumps have no service interval on our cars. Change it when it becomes a problem (if it ever does become a problem).

Serpentine / drive belt tensioners on the K24 only require an adjustable wrench (or a 22mm, I believe), to force the tension off of the belt, to change the belt. IIRC< you can use a sturdy, thin nail to hold the tensioner in the "non-tension-on-belt" position while you change the belt. It's a one-person job. I did it when installing my UR pulleys.

 

^^Agreed, the chain doesn't have a change interval, but the tensioners do. The only time I've heard of anyone changing the timing chain was due to stretching b/c the tensioners went tango uniform.

 

I have to disagree with that. Yes, a timing belt needs to be changed every 50 - 70k miles. Anything beyond that and you're on borrowed time. Yes, a timing chain will last a lot longer than a belt, but it still needs to be changed at about the 120k mark. Again, there might not be anything wrong with it, but beyond that and you're on borrowed time. And that comes from a 25+ plus year ASE certified Master Tech and ASE instructor. Take it from somebody who's had a timing belt (okay, it was 3) snap on them. Its worth every penny to prevent it from happening. A belt is a heck of lot cheaper than a belt, 8 exhaust valves, 8 intake valves, head gasket, valve stem seals, and for some, a whole lot of labor.

 

With proper maintenance, a chain shouldn't need to be replaced. Since the chain is lubed by the motor oil and put under proper tension, it shouldn't stretch and wear on the contact surfaces should be within tolerances. It isn't like this is a motorcycle chain driving a wheel. There is plenty of evidence that substantiates having to be careful of the tensioning bits, but as a system, a chain should last the life of the motor if maintained. I completely agree on timing belts, but that is a belt.

 

If it's the type of chain usually used for cam timing, with a sandwich of plates on each pin, they last essentially forever. I've not taken a look at the one in the TSX but I this is the type of chain (there's a name for it that I can't remember), it should essentially be a non-service item.

moda_way, so the tensioner your mechanic was talking about was the accessory belt tensioner and not the one for the timing chain then?

 

The "tough to move" tensioner was the one for the accessory belt. He did a visual inspection (with a mirror) on the timing chain tensioner for my benefit.

 

how can you explain that i have 270k+ miles on my engine with no problems with chain or tensioner, chains on our cars are for the life of the car provided you do proper oil changes every 5 to 10 k miles and always keep the oil just on or very slightly above the max level .

 

Opinions are like assholes; everyone has one, and we tolerate them all here (I guess). Your position is the consensus one, and though there have been a few reports of stretched timing chains here, it's the exception not the rule and has usually been attributed to poor maintenance (the same applies to water pumps and the belt tensioner too, no recommended service interval on either item).

 

Alot of people do this work without replacing the hydraulic (belt) tensioner--the noise you described can be the belt slapping against the cover due to a faulty tensioner.

 

Yes, on these K24 engines check condition of accessory belt tensioner pulley and idler pulley every 90K miles or so. At same time the accessory belt is replaced. These pullies seem to wear and make noise, not uncommon.