chrisb55

I bought a 2005 TSX 6MT with roughly 17,000 miles on it about 4 months ago. Initially the car had quite a bit of problems, the steering wheel shook at high speeds and the car drastically pulled to the right. After getting my front rotors changed, the shaking wheel went away, but the car kept pulling right, and when i pumped my brakes the car sharply made a 90 degree turn off to the right side of the road.

The dealer performed 3 allignments, changed a control arm holding the right calliper in place and now the car can go straight for a good 10 seconds before it starts curiving left/right with moderate wheel holding. Then the car curves right, but soposedly that has to do with the curvature of the road.The dealer said that this is OK and that its PERFECTLY NORMAL. I can agree to that somewhat.

NOW, how about this. When I am braking, and the car is on a PERFECTLY EVEN ROAD, like BRAND NEW, it brakes fine.....BUT when I am BRAKING on surface that's uneven, has: cracks, tears, holes, I can feel the wheel wanting to go off to either side and when I let go for a second, the wheel turns left/right/left and almost at the moment when the car comes to a full stop, the wheel turns 1/2 turn to the right side usually , making the the car go to the side to stop unless I grab it and hold it straight. The dealer said this again, is PERFECTLY NORMAL????

This prevents a huge safety issue for me in rainy conditions. When I am driving in rain and the car hits a hole or a crack, the wheel wants to turn and I have no idea if the car is loosing control or not. Could it just be the crappy stock tires?


I know that the TSX has sensitive steering, and I like that because it makes the car responsive, but having the car be unable to maintain a straight line in the presence of tricky pavement I dont think is normal. Thoughts?!?

I upgraded from a Mazda Mx-6 and I also own another Much much cheaper Mazda Protoge as well as an Infiniti G35....NONE of the other cars budge from their straight line when faced with bumps and holes and imperfections in the road. Is this normal?!? Is the TSX steering THAT sensitive???

.......on another note, I am also having a problem that I think relates to the VSA system. My tires are quite worn (stock Michelin MXM4) and I just had them rotated...when I start rather fast, the wheels screech and the traction control system NEVER activates, is that normal, or just due to the tires...I thought traction contol should prevent this?

Comment please.

EuRTSX

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=47

Tramlining.

chrisb55

When I rotated my tires, front to back, it didn't fix the problem at all. I figured putting wheels that were evenly worn from the back would fix a problem like tramlining?? Also, saying that this is tramlining, would the car need to be re-alligned if I buy a new set of tires all around?

cheese

Wow 17k miles and the tires are already worn? Either you or the previous owner must have a lead foot. Anyway, I have experienced the issue you mentioned but never knew that there was a term for it. Thanks EurTSX!

chrisb55

I'm at 23,500 now. But yea, the tires are horrible. Any other thoughts from others?

cybereclipse

get new tires???

PWTSX

maybe your rotors or brake

PWTSX

front rotor might be the problem

chrisb55

I just had the front rotors replaced about 3,000 ago and the problem was still there. I am just wondering if tires (tramlining) can cause the wheel to turn to such a degree when I ride and brake on uneven surface. I figured that would only cause a few degrees, mine is pretty bad at times.

?

LuvMyTSX

My tires have been slipping quite a bit lately, too (I'm at 31k miles). My tires are pretty worn and I'm getting new ones soon. It seems to happen mostly in rainy weather starting from a complete stop. My VSA kicks in because I see the light on the dash. I can't wait to get new tires! Looking into snows for the winter this year.

chrisb55

Question: can tramlining cause the wheels to turn the wheel 1/2 a turn while riding on uneven road, braking?

Also, i thought that the VSA system should try to compensate for crappy worn tires? My wheels screech from an uphill start, I drive manual, and the VSA doesnt seem to do anything.

LuvMyTSX

Do you see the VSA light flash on your dash when your tires a screeching/slipping? My light comes on when my VSA comes on. VSA isn't going to be able to prevent every occurance of screeching/slipping tires, so you'll still hear it from time to time.

chrisb55

Nah, I dont see it come on, it used to though.. Maybe the tires are too worn?

On another note about the steering.....I just got a front/back wheel rotation done....so now my back tires are the main front driving tires. They looked evenly worn, unlike the front ones. (I got rotors changed 3000 miles ago by dealer to try and fix it along w/ brake pads). Problem still persist with it pulling to the right side during bumps and while braking slowly on a bumpy road. Still think its the tires?

04rob

On a very uneven road surface tramlining can cause a very big turn of the steering wheel. There is one place on my drive home where the road is all worn down from people stopping at a light. If Im not holding the wheel at low speeds it will jerk 90 degrees in either direction.

chrisb55

would you think that replacing the tires would help / help you too?

bklynTSX

No car will drive perfectly straight for a couple of reasons. Road curvature, tire pressure differences, power to front wheels. My 05' Tsx w/20k pulls to the left and the steering wheel itself is actually turned slightly left while driving.

What do you consider high speeds? Occasionaly I get a mild shaking while driving over 70. However, over 90 you have to expect some shaking.

I also think you should never brake hands free.

What i suggest is replacing the brake pads. Factory OEM pads are horrible, and cause the car to pull in one direction and have heavy shaking in the wheel while braking at highway speeds. I used Hawk from TireRack.

You mentioned your tires may be worn. Another possibility is the front tires have worn unevenly (this is common w/ front wheel drive cars) so the circumference of them may be very slighty different. Hence the tire that is smaller will rotate faster and cause the car to pull in that direction.

chrisb55

You noted some good points.

I bought the car preowned, (only 1 year on it) and the driver before me must have had some problems w/ steering since when I got it the wheel shook and the car pulled right - rotors replaced, brake pads replaced, right front calliper, allignment all by dealer so I assume stock parts went in.

The car drives straight on nice straight road now for a few seconds and that's all I expect...no wheel shaking at all.

Wheel curves right upon going on bumps and what not, and speeds at any range.

The braking problem comes in when I am just about to stop at a light for instance and the road is either bumpy or for instance has heavy trucks driving on it and has those 2 "rails" edged into the road where both wheels went. Then at like even 1-2 mph (right immediate to stop) , the wheel will curve right unless I hold it firmly straight. This also happens when braking at higher speeds to on uneven road.

Thats what i meant..

eurostat

Chrisb55, A lot of us here in Australia have this same problem with the Honda Euro(TSX).We are trying to get Honda to acknowledge it as a safety issue.This problem seems to be mostly related to the tyres fitted to some of our cars, Bridgestone Potenza RE040 directional tyres,although i think it is by no means exclusive to them.
My car originally came with 16" rims with Dunlop non-directional tyres and the steering was excellent,no drifting left or right(even on cambered roads),no 1/2turn when braking to a stop on uneven or gravel roads,and no tramlining.
At 7,000kms i swapped my 16'' wheels for the Honda 17" rims with Potenzas(that had come off the Luxury model Euro with same milage on them) and immediately had all the problems you describe.Had wheel alighnment checked and it was correct.I've never so much as hit a pothole, so i dont expect any suspension or chassis damage to be the cause.I recently swapped back to the original tyres just to see what the result would be.....guess what ...no problems at all with steering.
If its not the tyres then im starting to suspect its the design of the suspension and the geometry of the setup.One thought i have is that the SAI angle is too narrow,and while this provides easy turning of the wheels it may make it a little too easy for the car to be steered by road surface features.

chrisb55

By reading so many replies from you guys (THANKS!) concerning the the tires on the TSX. ( I have the Michelin MXM4's), I am thinking of changing them soon....they are worn but I dont see the 'Michelin safety belt' yet...

I am thinking of changing to the Bridgestone Turanza LS-V....any comments?

Will this help you think?

eurostat

I dont know if those tyres you mention are directional,but for me my next set of tyres will be non-directional,even if its just to allow better tyre rotation options.

chrisb55

what are the pros/cons of directional tires? Are the stock Michelin tires directional?

chrisb55

how can you tell if a tire is directional?

chrisb55

I've been trying to look at specs of tires available for the TSX on tirerack.com and other than the Yokos, I cant find anything that mentions directional tires in the discription.

I tried looking at the tread in the pictures and can't seem to figure out which is which.

Someone in another forum also mentioned that upon switching to the Yoko, the steering turned easier and went with the grooves/imperfections of the road a lot more than the car used to.

So as a result........................:

Are Bridgestone Turanza LS-V directional?
Which tires are/are not directional?
Which would you recommend and what does directionality offer extra?

It seems that the tires are the problem with my car and I dont want ones that are very sensitive to steering...I wanna move the wheel more and feel a stiffer feel at the wheel to counter my car flying from side to side....which do you guys recommend?

playdoh

If it is normal ask to drive another car (same year hopefully) on the lot and see if it does the same thing.

My TSX is very sensitive to road conditions and you need to be "active" in steering. It likes to take the path of least resistance all too easily

CivicEx1998

My last hondas 97civc, 96 accord all did have some steering problem but never really bother me. But the Accord Euro/TSx seems to be more severe and requires a little

LuvMyTSX

I'm probably going to get the Turanzas when I buy all seasons in the spring. They have really good reviews on Tire Rack and they're less expensive than our OEM tires.

bklynTSX

Chris, I also must say the steering on my tsx is quite sensitive. If I brake at any speed hands free (even w/ my knew brakes) the wheel pulls on its own about 45 degrees. Uneven or pothole-like surfaces the car also moves. I would highly suggest replacing the tires, the stock Michelin's are crap. TireRack has a good selection, Continental seems to have some of the best feedback for Acura & Honda. I will be replacing all 4 of mine with Continental in December when I have about 25K and it gets cold here in NYC.

chrisb55

I am definetly getting new tires in december as well here in NJ it tends to get slippery. Mine will have about 25K by then, which isnt good in any sense to me, but it is what it is.

Nobody has said much about directional issue brought up before in a post? Do you think its directional tires that cause extra sensitivity and would you recommend not getting directional ones? How can you tell?

jkay79

Oh my god guys.. im glad I found this post.. even tho its a little old

I Have the exact same problem with My 2003 Australian Honda Accord Euro

Had a Kazillion Wheel Alignments
6 new tires
New Brake Pads
Machined Rotors

Problem still exists

Car came with 16" Dunlop 2050's which u cant even buy here in Australia.. replacement tyres were Dunlop 3000's

My Memory of when the problem first started happening was around 30-40k k's

got the 2 original front tyres replaced with SP3000 Dunlops and had a full wheel alignment done.. got my car back and the tyre place had fucked up the wheel alignment.. took it to be corrected and thats when the problem started happening..

the only thing I have not tried is a different brand of tyre since the problem started happening.. but my honda dealers in Canberra deny there is anything wrong with the car.. its 4 years old now with 102 thousand KM's on it.. and im wanting to sell the car.. but i feel bad about the car having the problem without a resolution..

chrisb55

Yea...what I did is changed the stock Michelin Pilot's for some Bridgestone Turanzas...they fixed some of the stability problems that I was having. The car doesn't tramline as much, but when the grooves in the road are big enough, no tires will really help. The wheel doesnt go off as much either, but sometimes it does. I got used to it and dont see it as huge of a deal. New tires did help me though.

eurostat

You guys with the steering problem might want to check out this thread from our OzHonda site. http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22067 (look at how many pages devoted to the subject)
As a mechanic i can tell you that no matter what the Honda/Acura dealers tell you,its NOT normal for vehicles to pull/steer/drift to one side of the road or the other, regardless of the road camber.
Nor is it normal for the steering to pull hard to one side when braking to a stop on rough/gravel/uneven surfaces as i am also experiencing.
Honda/Acura obviously have a real problem with this on the TSX/Euro, and they seem to be taking a 'head in the sand' approach and hoping it will go away by denying its existence.

jkay79

Hi EuroStat

Could you please contact me privately at the following address: jkalmund@gmail.com


As for the Oz Honda thread.. I spent awhile reading thru the whole thing.

I have tried to post to the thread to let the guys know that i am having the problem on 16" Rims but i cant seem the register for some reason.


How are you going with the problem eurostat?

Regards,

Jeremy

Sleevee

My biggest concern or complaint is the "Sensitivity" of the TSX's Steering System!
I am not experiencing the drifting so much as others have described in this thread but, what I am experiencing is the constant Left/Right/Left/Right feel of the steering wheel, mainly noticeable in a long turn (whether it be right or left banked). The Left/Right action seems to originate from normal road imperfection (crown, dips, curve angle, road camber, etc) or what's been discussed in this topic as "Tramlining".

What I feel is happening, and maybe Eurostat can add some of his professional opinion on my theory; I feel that the Power Steering System itself is over compensating to these quick changes in steering angle rotation that then makes each Left/Right action feel over exaggerated, as if the car was doing the action itself, more so than the actual road conditions. The power assist valving of the TSX's steering system seems to be in need of a Re-calibration Campaign. This is where I feel, as Eurostat was describing, that this seems to be a Honda/Acura problem from the factory and a public safety concern.

Just for side info, since this is my first post:
I have only had my 04 TSX for two weeks now that has 41k. I traded my 05 MINI Cooper S for it because; I needed a newer sedan again. My 92 Acura Vigor, that I still own and Love, has just seen it's better days (but may go under a revitalization soon). The Cooper was a great example of what a sports car driving experience should be. The Vigor is a great example of what a Sport/Sedan driving experience should be. With 250k miles, this car still rides better and is more solidly constructed then any of the new stuff on the road today (even the TSX ). When driving the same roads with these other two vehicles, this left/right steering condition was never even brought to my attention until driving the TSX on them.
I will be inquiring the dealer as soon as I can get to one. The closest one in my area is a 1.5 hour drive...

Tsx6363

it happens to everyone when you brake on uneven roads.. my car has 1700 miles on it and it happens when i brake on crappy roadds

eurostat

Im not sure about your theory on the power steering in the TSX/Euro ,but i wouldnt dismiss it.
My theory is that the SAI angle on these cars is designed "too narrow" ie the angle is too small(too upright).This(plus castor angle) makes for very easy steering response,but also allows the car prone to steering itself at the slightest deviation in the road,acceleration,deceleration,or even if your vehicle has an inequity in the wheel base from one side compared to the other.On my car, the right side wheelbase measurement is 10mm shorter than the other side.My car drifts right.
I would like to see all the geometry settings/measurements for this car so i could work out such things as the scrub radius,and where on (or above/below) the road the angles meet. Im out of the business now and dont have access to this sort of info,but panel beaters/bodyshops may have it.

chrisb55

Update:

I changed my tires from the stock to Bridgestone LS-V in November of 2006. It is now 15-16 months later, and 18,000 miles later and my tires are worn down to the point of needed to be replaced.
I do highway driving mostly and this is really odd to me. I have also seen that the inside of my front left tire is complete worn down while the inside of the front right is not so much. It's really odd to me and I'm worried concerning the steering problems I have had with this car.

Any suggestions of what might be wrong and what I should do?

jkay79

well

this issue has been irritating me for about 2 and a half years now.. just as I am getting ready to sell the car..The Solution Presents Itself..

Heres the Details:

I was living in Canberra Australia (east side of australia), but recently had my car transported to the West Side of Australia... a very long distance, as I have moved Interstate... (about 5 hours on a plane.. ) or 3 days driving non stop..

Anyway...

Took it to a local Honda Dealer here in Western Australia.. told them of the problem i've been having for last 2.5 years.. they looked into it.. and said " ohh well the ECM ( i guess some electronic management thing) says the battery has been replaced/ gotten low voltage readings from the battery.. and well when that happens.. the VSA (vehicle stability assist) System needs to be reset/recalibrated..

guess what guys... they did it.. and no moreeeeeee problems......

this would make sense as the first time this started happening was when i came back from an overseas trip after 4 months... unfortunately my situation was confused.. because the day after i got back from my trip i also took the car to get 2 new front tyres because they were worn out...

Hope this helps you guys...

EvolveTSX

check your rear calipers, i had the same problem with my '97 prelude...every time i would brake the car your pull to the right, it turns out my right rear caliper was seized and the left was on it's way

npolite

Did you get a printout of the alignment checks? Are all of the readings within specs? It sounds to me that this car was involved in a front end accident. My mother's 99 Accord was involved in an accident and the car steers to the right slightly.

There are a few modifications that a shop can do to get it close enough but they can't get it the same as it was originally without replacing everything in the suspension. And even then if the frame is bent by a little it still will do it.

If you have uneven wear then something is wrong with the alignment. Make sure you ask for the specifically for before and after measurements (I've had one Honda dealer that didn't do it) and if everything checks out before and after tell them to find out what is bad and fix it. Sometimes if the inner tie rods have some play it will cause inner tread wear. Your car isn’t that old to need them replaced but then again I think it was involved in an accident.