Unorthodox Racing Ultra SS Pulley Set
10-12-2005, 03:50 PM
#1
Unorthodox Racing Ultra SS Pulley Set
I have noticed that many of the TSX guys are looking for more HP and quicker revs but no one has looked to the UR Pulleys as a helpful mod. Now this is a dyno from a RSX-S:
Yes, the K20A2 does have different torque values and redline as compared to the K24A2 and therefore you can consider this dyno as an estimate of what the TSX might make for HP/TQ, but notice the gains on many of the other cars. In fact, just search Unorthodox Racing in the "Search" section and you will see how many guys are happy with the pulleys? So why not the TSX guys? I have a few sets here and I would really like to see what these pulleys do for the TSX's so I will sell the first 3 sets for $240 shipped to first 3 guys that purchase.
Just in case you need some more helpful info:
1) "What are Unorthodox Racing Ultra Series pulleys?"
Unorthodox Racing pulleys are available in seven (7) types. The first type is the accessory pulley/s (Ultra A). These pulleys are the same diameter as the OEM (original), accessory pulley/s they are replacing and they are significantly lighter. The accessory pulley/s are part of what makes up our full pulley sets, these sets also include the crank pulley. Most importantly, the accessory pulleys are available separately for owners who have already purchased one of our lightened crank pulleys and now want the accessory pulleys to finish their pulley set.
The second type is the underdrive crank pulley, utilizing the original belt layout (Ultra S). It drives all the accessories that were available in the car from the factory. This version is up to 20% smaller in diameter, underdrive or reduction in diameter (see the previous question). Most importantly this version is from 60-90% lighter than the OEM crank pulley/s they replace. This is why all of the underdriving, reduction in diameter, is done at the crankshaft pulley to maximize the reduction in weight on the crankshaft
The third type is the stock diameter or overdrive crank pulley, utilizing the original belt layout (Ultra Sc). The section that drives the alternator or aftermarket supercharger in this version is either the same diameter or slightly larger than the OEM crank pulley. The other belt section/s not used for the alternator or supercharger are up to 20% smaller. This prevents accessories like the a/c from robbing precious HP from your engine. This version is designed to maintain alternator output at exactly or slightly above stock output levels for car owners with big stereos (over 600 watts) or for audio competitions where system voltage must maintain specified levels (see your sanctioning body's rules). This version is also designed to either maintain the original level of boost from the aftermarket supercharger kit or increase the boost (see the application guide for available sizes).
The fourth type is an underdrive crank pulley for single belt conversion from the OEM multi-belt layout (Ultra R). This version was designed to drive only the alternator or alternator and water pump (depending on the application). It is used for engine swaps or for the racer where only the alternator is being used. This version has the same percentage of underdriving (or diameter reduction) as the Ultra S version but is 90-95% lighter than the OEM crank pulley it replaces.
The fifth type is the stock or overdrive diameter crank pulley (Ultra Rc) for single belt conversion from the original multi-belt layout. The section of the pulley that drives the alternator or aftermarket supercharger in this version is either the same diameter or slightly larger than the OEM crank pulley. This is done to maintain alternator output at exactly or slightly above stock output levels for car owners with big stereos (over 600 watts) or for audio competitions where system voltage must maintain specified levels (see your sanctioning body's rules). This version is also designed to either maintain the original level of boost from the aftermarket supercharger kit or increase the boost (see the application guide for available sizes).
The sixth type is the underdrive pulley set, utilizing the original belt layout (Ultra SS). The underdrive pulley set includes the underdrive crank pulley and the accessory pulleys (Ultra A) for the air pump (where applicable), alternator, idler, power steering and water pump, depending on your application. The pulley sets use no additional underdrive, meaning the underdrive is the same as with our crank pulleys (Ultra S). As a result, you will have no electrical, cooling or power steering problems. The a/c is still driven from the crank pulley in the Ultra SS kits so don't think it has to be removed or can't be used.
The seventh type is the stock diameter or overdrive diameter pulley set, utilizing the original belt layout (Ultra SSc). The pulley set includes the stock or overdrive diameter crank pulley and the accessory pulleys (Ultra A) for the air pump (where applicable), alternator, idler, power steering and water pump, depending on your application. The section of the crank pulley that drives the alternator or aftermarket supercharger in this version is either the same diameter or slightly larger than the OEM crank pulley. The other belt section/s not used for the alternator or supercharger are up to 20% smaller. This prevents accessories like the a/c from robbing precious HP from your engine. This version is designed to maintain alternator output at exactly or slightly above stock output levels for car owners with big stereos (over 600 watts) or for audio competitions where system voltage must maintain specified levels (see your sanctioning body's rules). This version is also designed to either maintain the original level of boost from the aftermarket supercharger kit or increase the boost (see the application guide for available sizes). The a/c is still driven from the crank pulley in the Ultra SSc kits so don't think it has to be removed or can't be used.
2) "What is underdriving/underdrive or overdriving"
Underdriving/underdrive is slowing the speed of the accessories, or the driven component, from the original speed they were turned by the OEM crank pulley. Underdriving can be accomplished in two ways. First is by increasing the diameter of the accessory pulley/s. The problem with this method is that it increases the size of the accessory pulley/s which increases their weight. Weight reduction is the most important key to increasing engine performance and response. This method also eliminates the ability to underdrive the a/c, which is a tremendous robber of horsepower.
The second method, used by Unorthodox Racing, is by reducing the diameter of the main drive pulley or crank pulley. By using this method we can achieve the best ratio of size reduction, underdriving, and most importantly we can maximize the reduction of weight on the crank pulley where most of the weight savings can be seen. This reduction in weight reduces the moment of inertia allowing your engine to respond faster to throttle inputs and perform better at all RPM's. Since this method allows underdriving of the a/c we can maximize the performance of our kits by not leaving any accessories to rob precious horsepower from your engine.
Overdriving is increasing the speed of the accessories, or driven component (like a supercharger), from the original speed they were turned by the OEM crank pulley. This can be done or accomplished in two ways. First is by decreasing the diameter of the accessory pulley/s. The second method, used by Unorthodox Racing, is by increasing the diameter of the main drive pulley or crankshaft pulley. Overdriving can be used to either increase the boost output of a supercharger or to increase alternator output due to increased voltage demand from a large/competition stereo or auxiliary lighting system.
3) "How do Unorthodox Racing pulleys give me more power?"
Weight loss is the most critical factor in making, or more accurately, relesing Horsepower! Each pound of weight taken off the engines rotating assembly is worth approximately 2.7HP and the figure increases dramatically with forced induction, nitrous, VTEC and increased RPM's. Only 15-20% of the gains seen from our pulleys comes from the underdriving. The diameter of each of our crank pulleys is reduced up to 20%. We tailor the exact amount of underdrive to each vehicle based on factory specified accessory performance. We fully maintain all accessory output minimums like air conditioning efficiency, power steering feel, and voltage (minimum allowable voltage 12v) even at idle with everything electrical on in the car. There are no adverse effects from using any of our pulley versions. Bolt them on and forget about them, then just follow your vehicles normal maintenance schedule.
4) "Is my crank pulley a harmonic/torsional/vibration damper or a harmonic balancer?"
People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term that is used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications that we offer utilize a counterweight as part of the pulley as these engines are internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that looks similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note that in these applications, this elastomer is somewhat inadequate in size, as well as life span, to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some of the imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few. This is not to say that with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most who have installed and driven a vehicle with our pulleys will notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is a natural result of replacing the heavy steel crank pulley with a CNC-machined aluminum pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke, displacement, inline, V configurations, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about the pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better.
5) "Will Unorthodox Racing lightened pulleys cause an oil pump failure?"
Urban myths have been floating around about Honda oil pumps failing by using an Unorthodox Racing crank pulley/s. The real fact is that these OEM pumps have been failing with AND WITHOUT the use of our pulleys and before our crank pulley/s were available on the market. Also note that these failures are few and far in between.
The Acura/Honda oil pumps are excellent units, but there are a number of reasons for the failures that do occur.
Most of the oil pump failures have been in Acura/Honda B series 1.6/1.8L applications. The Mazda 1.6/1.8L applications have seen a few failures, as well as the new Ford Focus ZETEC in race vehicles. Again, note that on all these applications the oil pump failures have occurred on engines not using our pulley, using the stock crank pulley.
These pump failures can be linked to the following causes. These causes may act individually or in combination to cause the actual failures:
The gears used in many pumps including those in the Honda B series engines and Mazda Miata engines are of a low-cost powdered metal composition. The factory uses this metal because of its acceptable cost-to-strength ratio. The problem is, these parts are not always deburred properly from the factory and when pushed to their limits can and do fail.
Many times additional stress is added to the oil pump by using oil thicker than what is specified by the manufacturer. The oil pump and bearing clearances were not designed from the factory to push oil of higher viscosities. This extra stress on the gears, combined with the above mentioned poor deburring process, can attribute to oil pump failure or engine failure.
Another contributing factor to oil pump failures is the weak cast backing plate of the B16/B18 oil pumps. Simple inspection shows that when compared to an H22 oil pump, a screw is not present in a critical location of the plate in the B series pumps. Compound this with the use of a higher viscosity motor oil and poorly deburred pump components and you have the ingredients for an oil pump failure.
This issue, specific to the Mazda 1.6/1.8L engines, involves the flex of the crankshaft and the lower half of the engine due to the additional stress of a forced induction system (such as a turbo or supercharger). The additional stress produced by forced induction causes flexing of both the block and the crankshaft between the front main bearing and the oil pump. This can also contribute to oil pump failure. Early Miatas were notorious for having crankshaft problems and later models suffered from problems as power is increased significantly.
Lastly, any failure inside a motor, related to aging components or a poor engine rebuild, can cause the oil pump to fail. ANY particles passing through an oil pump design such as that used in the Honda B series engines will cause damage or failure.
Remember that oil pump failures happen regularly on engines using a factory crank pulley. To help combat these failures, a few steps should be taken to help prolong the life of your oil pump and engine:
Unless building a race motor with race clearances in mind, you should always use an oil viscosity matching, or as close to the factory recommendations as possible.
If using a factory oil pump, always have your oil pump components deburred properly. It is recommended you have a competent engine rebuilder handle this.
For those who run dedicated / extreme race vehicles we recommend using an external wet or dry sump oiling system. These systems are designed for the heavy abuse a race engine receives on the track. Remember, the stock oiling systems were designed for factory horsepower levels and can only handle a certain amount of power increase over that level.
Lastly and most obvious, have a competent, trusted machine or performance shop rebuild your precious motor. It only takes one simple mistake to turn a costly engine rebuild into a doorstop.
If you have any other questions about this subject please don't hesitate to give us a call or drop us an e-mail. We take great pride in the craftsmanship of our products and are constantly striving to provide the highest quality products available to you, our customers.
6) "Will these pulleys cause premature engine bearing wear?"
This is a fear many prospective owners have and is a valid concern since we are dealing directly with the rotating assembly. Fortunately it is another urban myth with no basis in fact. The fact is that our pulleys have the opposite effect on engine bearings. The combination of tight tolerances, quality control, perfect balance, and dramatic weight loss versus the stock pulleys reduces stress loads on your engine, extending the total service life you can expect from your engine. Engine bearing problems are purely associated to poor engine maintenance, use of heavier than factory recommended oils, improper engine building practices (which includes poor balancing), excessively revving engines when they are cold, and owners expecting their factory oil pumps to handle engine power outputs beyond 3, 4, even 5+ times the stock power levels.
7) "Will the pulleys void my factory warrantee?"
Actually the answer is fairly complex but has a simple solution. Automobile manufacturers state if a specific component is not designed by them or an OEM supplier specifically for use on your vehicle from the factory, then the component voids your warrantee. This area has been a hotbed of controversy for years. SEMA has been working feverishly to protect owner’s rights on this issue because many aftermarket products are viable replacements, if not better in design and function, than the factory component.
UNORTHODOX RACING pulleys are one of many products, from air intakes to computer chips to exhaust systems, that fall into this category. The simple truth is that most dealers are looking for any excuse to avoid working on vehicles modified with aftermarket performance parts.
The solution is the MAGNUSON-MOSS WARRANTY IMPROVEMENT ACT, which requires that the dealer or OEM prove that the aftermarket part you have purchased and are using actually caused a failure or problem with the vehicle. So if your dealer gives you a hard time let him know you are aware of your rights and they should back down quickly.
The key is that owners must be aware that these situations can arise and this is clearly stated in the back of their owner’s manual that non-OEM products void the manufacturer warrantee. This, not surprisingly, includes performance parts designed by car manufacturers (i.e. Ford Motorsports, TRD, Mazda Competition and GM Performance to name a few).
8) "Are these pulleys hard to install?"
In most cases if you can change your oil or do a tune-up, then you can install one of our crank pulleys. Each one of our pulley/s or sets comes with model-specific instructions that cover everything from jacking up the car to the factory torque specification on the mounting hardware. It is important for you to be aware that although the product seems simple it is critical that it be installed properly. Our instructions are not a replacement for a factory or aftermarket service manual. So if you're not sure go to a professional.
An installation done by a professional mechanic should take no longer than one (1) hour for crank pulleys and under two (2) to three (3) hours for pulleys sets.
9) "Do I have to change my belts when I install the pulley?"
Yes. Belts must be changed with many of our different types of pulleys. When the belt sizes need to be changed it is because the pulleys are either up to 20% smaller or slightly larger than the factory pulleys. The installation instructions we supply with each kit includes the part number/s for the belt/s we have found most consistent for each model of pulley. The belt/s you will need are available from your local auto store. We would appreciate any information on belt sizing for applications that do not include specific belt sizes as it allows us to accumulate additional sizing to compare with other data we have compiled.
We recommend the use of Gates belts. It is important that the belts are slightly over tightened when they are first installed as this accommodates for natural belt stretch. We do not supply the belts with our kits for three reasons. First we refuse to use inferior quality belts like those used by other pulley manufactures. For instance one manufacturer claims they use the factory OEM supplier. The problem is that manufacturers don't always use the highest quality belt because they see belts as a limited life span component that they can save money on. Second, we don't feel that our customers should have to pay NY prices (Long Island has some of the highest pricing in the country) for their belts, as most of you will be able to find the belts for a lower price in your area. Third, if an owner happens to have a rare car that needs a different belt than the ones we have found to work they would have get involved in shipping it back, exchanging the belt, and paying for additional shipping charges. Belt sizing can vary due to the OEM manufacturer's production cycle. This is due to the use of different accessories, different brackets, or a combination of both.
10) "Does the anodized coating wear away?"
The anodizing on our Ultra Series pulleys is purely for visual looks of the product. 6061-T6 aluminum has phenomenal weathering ability that allows it to remain beautiful even in the most severe weather environments. The anodizing will wear away on the belt sections where the belts ride on the pulleys. There is absolutely no cause for alarm.
11) "Can the anodizing cause the belts to slip?"
No. Even without the anodizing, as our Ultra R race pulleys have no anodizing, the belts have the same grip that they do with the stock pulleys.
12) "Is there any long term maintenance required with the pulleys?"
The only maintenance required is to check and replace the accessory belts at the manufacturer's specified intervals. Other than this you basically bolt on the underdrive pulleys and forget about them.
13) "Will my engine RPM's change?"
The pulleys have nothing to do with the transmission and the gear ratios. The pulleys only change the speed of the accessories and nothing else. The transmission and the differential, as well as tire size, control engine RPM at any given speed.
14) "Can I use the underdrive pulleys if I have a high wattage stereo system?"
All of the pulleys allow stereo systems of up to approximately 600 watts RMS. If the stereo system in question is above that wattage amount then the owner has two options. They can purchase our stock or oversize diameter crank pulley or we can make a custom alternator pulley, which will be smaller in diameter and will increase the voltage output.
Capacitors are a smart addition as they store the power the amplifiers need for peak draw. Our stock diameter series used with capacitors allow the vehicle owner to achieve the cleanest and most powerful sound with no loss in voltage output. Another good option would be to install a second battery or batteries just for the stereo.
"Why doesn't Unorthodox Racing make an air conditioning pulley?"
At this time we are not making a/c pulleys because of the clutch mechanism. We are, however, looking into doing them in the near future. Note that the a/c is still driven in a number of our pulley types and kits so there is no need to delete or remove the a/c. Remember, many of our pulley types and sets underdrive the a/c which can pick up a considerable amount of previously lost power.
Yes, the K20A2 does have different torque values and redline as compared to the K24A2 and therefore you can consider this dyno as an estimate of what the TSX might make for HP/TQ, but notice the gains on many of the other cars. In fact, just search Unorthodox Racing in the "Search" section and you will see how many guys are happy with the pulleys? So why not the TSX guys? I have a few sets here and I would really like to see what these pulleys do for the TSX's so I will sell the first 3 sets for $240 shipped to first 3 guys that purchase.
Just in case you need some more helpful info:
1) "What are Unorthodox Racing Ultra Series pulleys?"
Unorthodox Racing pulleys are available in seven (7) types. The first type is the accessory pulley/s (Ultra A). These pulleys are the same diameter as the OEM (original), accessory pulley/s they are replacing and they are significantly lighter. The accessory pulley/s are part of what makes up our full pulley sets, these sets also include the crank pulley. Most importantly, the accessory pulleys are available separately for owners who have already purchased one of our lightened crank pulleys and now want the accessory pulleys to finish their pulley set.
The second type is the underdrive crank pulley, utilizing the original belt layout (Ultra S). It drives all the accessories that were available in the car from the factory. This version is up to 20% smaller in diameter, underdrive or reduction in diameter (see the previous question). Most importantly this version is from 60-90% lighter than the OEM crank pulley/s they replace. This is why all of the underdriving, reduction in diameter, is done at the crankshaft pulley to maximize the reduction in weight on the crankshaft
The third type is the stock diameter or overdrive crank pulley, utilizing the original belt layout (Ultra Sc). The section that drives the alternator or aftermarket supercharger in this version is either the same diameter or slightly larger than the OEM crank pulley. The other belt section/s not used for the alternator or supercharger are up to 20% smaller. This prevents accessories like the a/c from robbing precious HP from your engine. This version is designed to maintain alternator output at exactly or slightly above stock output levels for car owners with big stereos (over 600 watts) or for audio competitions where system voltage must maintain specified levels (see your sanctioning body's rules). This version is also designed to either maintain the original level of boost from the aftermarket supercharger kit or increase the boost (see the application guide for available sizes).
The fourth type is an underdrive crank pulley for single belt conversion from the OEM multi-belt layout (Ultra R). This version was designed to drive only the alternator or alternator and water pump (depending on the application). It is used for engine swaps or for the racer where only the alternator is being used. This version has the same percentage of underdriving (or diameter reduction) as the Ultra S version but is 90-95% lighter than the OEM crank pulley it replaces.
The fifth type is the stock or overdrive diameter crank pulley (Ultra Rc) for single belt conversion from the original multi-belt layout. The section of the pulley that drives the alternator or aftermarket supercharger in this version is either the same diameter or slightly larger than the OEM crank pulley. This is done to maintain alternator output at exactly or slightly above stock output levels for car owners with big stereos (over 600 watts) or for audio competitions where system voltage must maintain specified levels (see your sanctioning body's rules). This version is also designed to either maintain the original level of boost from the aftermarket supercharger kit or increase the boost (see the application guide for available sizes).
The sixth type is the underdrive pulley set, utilizing the original belt layout (Ultra SS). The underdrive pulley set includes the underdrive crank pulley and the accessory pulleys (Ultra A) for the air pump (where applicable), alternator, idler, power steering and water pump, depending on your application. The pulley sets use no additional underdrive, meaning the underdrive is the same as with our crank pulleys (Ultra S). As a result, you will have no electrical, cooling or power steering problems. The a/c is still driven from the crank pulley in the Ultra SS kits so don't think it has to be removed or can't be used.
The seventh type is the stock diameter or overdrive diameter pulley set, utilizing the original belt layout (Ultra SSc). The pulley set includes the stock or overdrive diameter crank pulley and the accessory pulleys (Ultra A) for the air pump (where applicable), alternator, idler, power steering and water pump, depending on your application. The section of the crank pulley that drives the alternator or aftermarket supercharger in this version is either the same diameter or slightly larger than the OEM crank pulley. The other belt section/s not used for the alternator or supercharger are up to 20% smaller. This prevents accessories like the a/c from robbing precious HP from your engine. This version is designed to maintain alternator output at exactly or slightly above stock output levels for car owners with big stereos (over 600 watts) or for audio competitions where system voltage must maintain specified levels (see your sanctioning body's rules). This version is also designed to either maintain the original level of boost from the aftermarket supercharger kit or increase the boost (see the application guide for available sizes). The a/c is still driven from the crank pulley in the Ultra SSc kits so don't think it has to be removed or can't be used.
2) "What is underdriving/underdrive or overdriving"
Underdriving/underdrive is slowing the speed of the accessories, or the driven component, from the original speed they were turned by the OEM crank pulley. Underdriving can be accomplished in two ways. First is by increasing the diameter of the accessory pulley/s. The problem with this method is that it increases the size of the accessory pulley/s which increases their weight. Weight reduction is the most important key to increasing engine performance and response. This method also eliminates the ability to underdrive the a/c, which is a tremendous robber of horsepower.
The second method, used by Unorthodox Racing, is by reducing the diameter of the main drive pulley or crank pulley. By using this method we can achieve the best ratio of size reduction, underdriving, and most importantly we can maximize the reduction of weight on the crank pulley where most of the weight savings can be seen. This reduction in weight reduces the moment of inertia allowing your engine to respond faster to throttle inputs and perform better at all RPM's. Since this method allows underdriving of the a/c we can maximize the performance of our kits by not leaving any accessories to rob precious horsepower from your engine.
Overdriving is increasing the speed of the accessories, or driven component (like a supercharger), from the original speed they were turned by the OEM crank pulley. This can be done or accomplished in two ways. First is by decreasing the diameter of the accessory pulley/s. The second method, used by Unorthodox Racing, is by increasing the diameter of the main drive pulley or crankshaft pulley. Overdriving can be used to either increase the boost output of a supercharger or to increase alternator output due to increased voltage demand from a large/competition stereo or auxiliary lighting system.
3) "How do Unorthodox Racing pulleys give me more power?"
Weight loss is the most critical factor in making, or more accurately, relesing Horsepower! Each pound of weight taken off the engines rotating assembly is worth approximately 2.7HP and the figure increases dramatically with forced induction, nitrous, VTEC and increased RPM's. Only 15-20% of the gains seen from our pulleys comes from the underdriving. The diameter of each of our crank pulleys is reduced up to 20%. We tailor the exact amount of underdrive to each vehicle based on factory specified accessory performance. We fully maintain all accessory output minimums like air conditioning efficiency, power steering feel, and voltage (minimum allowable voltage 12v) even at idle with everything electrical on in the car. There are no adverse effects from using any of our pulley versions. Bolt them on and forget about them, then just follow your vehicles normal maintenance schedule.
4) "Is my crank pulley a harmonic/torsional/vibration damper or a harmonic balancer?"
People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term that is used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications that we offer utilize a counterweight as part of the pulley as these engines are internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that looks similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note that in these applications, this elastomer is somewhat inadequate in size, as well as life span, to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some of the imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few. This is not to say that with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most who have installed and driven a vehicle with our pulleys will notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is a natural result of replacing the heavy steel crank pulley with a CNC-machined aluminum pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke, displacement, inline, V configurations, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about the pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better.
5) "Will Unorthodox Racing lightened pulleys cause an oil pump failure?"
Urban myths have been floating around about Honda oil pumps failing by using an Unorthodox Racing crank pulley/s. The real fact is that these OEM pumps have been failing with AND WITHOUT the use of our pulleys and before our crank pulley/s were available on the market. Also note that these failures are few and far in between.
The Acura/Honda oil pumps are excellent units, but there are a number of reasons for the failures that do occur.
Most of the oil pump failures have been in Acura/Honda B series 1.6/1.8L applications. The Mazda 1.6/1.8L applications have seen a few failures, as well as the new Ford Focus ZETEC in race vehicles. Again, note that on all these applications the oil pump failures have occurred on engines not using our pulley, using the stock crank pulley.
These pump failures can be linked to the following causes. These causes may act individually or in combination to cause the actual failures:
The gears used in many pumps including those in the Honda B series engines and Mazda Miata engines are of a low-cost powdered metal composition. The factory uses this metal because of its acceptable cost-to-strength ratio. The problem is, these parts are not always deburred properly from the factory and when pushed to their limits can and do fail.
Many times additional stress is added to the oil pump by using oil thicker than what is specified by the manufacturer. The oil pump and bearing clearances were not designed from the factory to push oil of higher viscosities. This extra stress on the gears, combined with the above mentioned poor deburring process, can attribute to oil pump failure or engine failure.
Another contributing factor to oil pump failures is the weak cast backing plate of the B16/B18 oil pumps. Simple inspection shows that when compared to an H22 oil pump, a screw is not present in a critical location of the plate in the B series pumps. Compound this with the use of a higher viscosity motor oil and poorly deburred pump components and you have the ingredients for an oil pump failure.
This issue, specific to the Mazda 1.6/1.8L engines, involves the flex of the crankshaft and the lower half of the engine due to the additional stress of a forced induction system (such as a turbo or supercharger). The additional stress produced by forced induction causes flexing of both the block and the crankshaft between the front main bearing and the oil pump. This can also contribute to oil pump failure. Early Miatas were notorious for having crankshaft problems and later models suffered from problems as power is increased significantly.
Lastly, any failure inside a motor, related to aging components or a poor engine rebuild, can cause the oil pump to fail. ANY particles passing through an oil pump design such as that used in the Honda B series engines will cause damage or failure.
Remember that oil pump failures happen regularly on engines using a factory crank pulley. To help combat these failures, a few steps should be taken to help prolong the life of your oil pump and engine:
Unless building a race motor with race clearances in mind, you should always use an oil viscosity matching, or as close to the factory recommendations as possible.
If using a factory oil pump, always have your oil pump components deburred properly. It is recommended you have a competent engine rebuilder handle this.
For those who run dedicated / extreme race vehicles we recommend using an external wet or dry sump oiling system. These systems are designed for the heavy abuse a race engine receives on the track. Remember, the stock oiling systems were designed for factory horsepower levels and can only handle a certain amount of power increase over that level.
Lastly and most obvious, have a competent, trusted machine or performance shop rebuild your precious motor. It only takes one simple mistake to turn a costly engine rebuild into a doorstop.
If you have any other questions about this subject please don't hesitate to give us a call or drop us an e-mail. We take great pride in the craftsmanship of our products and are constantly striving to provide the highest quality products available to you, our customers.
6) "Will these pulleys cause premature engine bearing wear?"
This is a fear many prospective owners have and is a valid concern since we are dealing directly with the rotating assembly. Fortunately it is another urban myth with no basis in fact. The fact is that our pulleys have the opposite effect on engine bearings. The combination of tight tolerances, quality control, perfect balance, and dramatic weight loss versus the stock pulleys reduces stress loads on your engine, extending the total service life you can expect from your engine. Engine bearing problems are purely associated to poor engine maintenance, use of heavier than factory recommended oils, improper engine building practices (which includes poor balancing), excessively revving engines when they are cold, and owners expecting their factory oil pumps to handle engine power outputs beyond 3, 4, even 5+ times the stock power levels.
7) "Will the pulleys void my factory warrantee?"
Actually the answer is fairly complex but has a simple solution. Automobile manufacturers state if a specific component is not designed by them or an OEM supplier specifically for use on your vehicle from the factory, then the component voids your warrantee. This area has been a hotbed of controversy for years. SEMA has been working feverishly to protect owner’s rights on this issue because many aftermarket products are viable replacements, if not better in design and function, than the factory component.
UNORTHODOX RACING pulleys are one of many products, from air intakes to computer chips to exhaust systems, that fall into this category. The simple truth is that most dealers are looking for any excuse to avoid working on vehicles modified with aftermarket performance parts.
The solution is the MAGNUSON-MOSS WARRANTY IMPROVEMENT ACT, which requires that the dealer or OEM prove that the aftermarket part you have purchased and are using actually caused a failure or problem with the vehicle. So if your dealer gives you a hard time let him know you are aware of your rights and they should back down quickly.
The key is that owners must be aware that these situations can arise and this is clearly stated in the back of their owner’s manual that non-OEM products void the manufacturer warrantee. This, not surprisingly, includes performance parts designed by car manufacturers (i.e. Ford Motorsports, TRD, Mazda Competition and GM Performance to name a few).
8) "Are these pulleys hard to install?"
In most cases if you can change your oil or do a tune-up, then you can install one of our crank pulleys. Each one of our pulley/s or sets comes with model-specific instructions that cover everything from jacking up the car to the factory torque specification on the mounting hardware. It is important for you to be aware that although the product seems simple it is critical that it be installed properly. Our instructions are not a replacement for a factory or aftermarket service manual. So if you're not sure go to a professional.
An installation done by a professional mechanic should take no longer than one (1) hour for crank pulleys and under two (2) to three (3) hours for pulleys sets.
9) "Do I have to change my belts when I install the pulley?"
Yes. Belts must be changed with many of our different types of pulleys. When the belt sizes need to be changed it is because the pulleys are either up to 20% smaller or slightly larger than the factory pulleys. The installation instructions we supply with each kit includes the part number/s for the belt/s we have found most consistent for each model of pulley. The belt/s you will need are available from your local auto store. We would appreciate any information on belt sizing for applications that do not include specific belt sizes as it allows us to accumulate additional sizing to compare with other data we have compiled.
We recommend the use of Gates belts. It is important that the belts are slightly over tightened when they are first installed as this accommodates for natural belt stretch. We do not supply the belts with our kits for three reasons. First we refuse to use inferior quality belts like those used by other pulley manufactures. For instance one manufacturer claims they use the factory OEM supplier. The problem is that manufacturers don't always use the highest quality belt because they see belts as a limited life span component that they can save money on. Second, we don't feel that our customers should have to pay NY prices (Long Island has some of the highest pricing in the country) for their belts, as most of you will be able to find the belts for a lower price in your area. Third, if an owner happens to have a rare car that needs a different belt than the ones we have found to work they would have get involved in shipping it back, exchanging the belt, and paying for additional shipping charges. Belt sizing can vary due to the OEM manufacturer's production cycle. This is due to the use of different accessories, different brackets, or a combination of both.
10) "Does the anodized coating wear away?"
The anodizing on our Ultra Series pulleys is purely for visual looks of the product. 6061-T6 aluminum has phenomenal weathering ability that allows it to remain beautiful even in the most severe weather environments. The anodizing will wear away on the belt sections where the belts ride on the pulleys. There is absolutely no cause for alarm.
11) "Can the anodizing cause the belts to slip?"
No. Even without the anodizing, as our Ultra R race pulleys have no anodizing, the belts have the same grip that they do with the stock pulleys.
12) "Is there any long term maintenance required with the pulleys?"
The only maintenance required is to check and replace the accessory belts at the manufacturer's specified intervals. Other than this you basically bolt on the underdrive pulleys and forget about them.
13) "Will my engine RPM's change?"
The pulleys have nothing to do with the transmission and the gear ratios. The pulleys only change the speed of the accessories and nothing else. The transmission and the differential, as well as tire size, control engine RPM at any given speed.
14) "Can I use the underdrive pulleys if I have a high wattage stereo system?"
All of the pulleys allow stereo systems of up to approximately 600 watts RMS. If the stereo system in question is above that wattage amount then the owner has two options. They can purchase our stock or oversize diameter crank pulley or we can make a custom alternator pulley, which will be smaller in diameter and will increase the voltage output.
Capacitors are a smart addition as they store the power the amplifiers need for peak draw. Our stock diameter series used with capacitors allow the vehicle owner to achieve the cleanest and most powerful sound with no loss in voltage output. Another good option would be to install a second battery or batteries just for the stereo.
"Why doesn't Unorthodox Racing make an air conditioning pulley?"
At this time we are not making a/c pulleys because of the clutch mechanism. We are, however, looking into doing them in the near future. Note that the a/c is still driven in a number of our pulley types and kits so there is no need to delete or remove the a/c. Remember, many of our pulley types and sets underdrive the a/c which can pick up a considerable amount of previously lost power.
10-12-2005, 05:11 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by jiggaman
give one set away for free, than if that customer raves about them i guarentee you will have a bunch of customers that follow
Are there any negative things about this upgrade?
Like rough idle, or problems if you run a lot of electronic equipment?
10-12-2005, 05:33 PM
#6
Originally Posted by jiggaman
give one set away for free, than if that customer raves about them i guarentee you will have a bunch of customers that follow
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10-12-2005, 06:08 PM
#8
dɐɹɔ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʍ
How involved would the install be on a TSX? I've never really paid attention to the belt routing on the TSX, I believe the P/S and Alt. pulley's would be easy to change, however I am very concerned with the work involved with the crank pulley.
If the donor TSX pulley project was a go, I would demand a pre and post dyno run(s) from the person to recieve the pulley's. This way other TSX'ers could see if it was in fact worth while, it probably would be a good idea to pick someone with an intake/header/hondata since those seem to be the main upgrades that give power at this point.
If the donor TSX pulley project was a go, I would demand a pre and post dyno run(s) from the person to recieve the pulley's. This way other TSX'ers could see if it was in fact worth while, it probably would be a good idea to pick someone with an intake/header/hondata since those seem to be the main upgrades that give power at this point.
I've also heard good discussion on this topic from Sauceman and Mr. HeelToe.
10-12-2005, 07:00 PM
#10
Polar Chicken
I belive that Xior has these on his car, but I dont think he ever got a copy of a dyno. Rather than just give a set away, you could give a set to soemone on the condition that they do a before and after dyno. If the gains were similar to the CAT lets say. More peeps would be likely to buy this mod. I think the main fear that most have is that it will destroy their motor by burning out the crank berrings.
10-12-2005, 07:36 PM
#11
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If there is a dyno with good results the people will come.
10-13-2005, 12:34 AM
#13
To Zasker1, the introductory price is $240 shipped.
To jiggaman, if I had the $ I would give away a set, but I'm not the manufacturer and cannot afford those costs. I'm just trying to show you guys another means to more power without spending a lot of money. UR has informed that the TSX/RSX-S pulley set is a very popular #, meaning it sells well, so I'm waiting for you forum members to reap the gains too.
To Tsx536, there are no negative problems with this mod. I have the 3 pc set on my Accord i4 and have never had any problems. My Accord was turbo'ed on a stock block pushing about 225whp. I just built the block and everything internal was in immaculate shape so there was no negative effects internally. I also have a lot of customers/friends with the set with no problem, and UR has been in business over 9 years so that is an indication of the quality of their products.
To Tireguy, call UR and ask them for an estimated installation time.
***Please keep this thread objective/factual***
Let me know if there are any other questions.
To jiggaman, if I had the $ I would give away a set, but I'm not the manufacturer and cannot afford those costs. I'm just trying to show you guys another means to more power without spending a lot of money. UR has informed that the TSX/RSX-S pulley set is a very popular #, meaning it sells well, so I'm waiting for you forum members to reap the gains too.
To Tsx536, there are no negative problems with this mod. I have the 3 pc set on my Accord i4 and have never had any problems. My Accord was turbo'ed on a stock block pushing about 225whp. I just built the block and everything internal was in immaculate shape so there was no negative effects internally. I also have a lot of customers/friends with the set with no problem, and UR has been in business over 9 years so that is an indication of the quality of their products.
To Tireguy, call UR and ask them for an estimated installation time.
***Please keep this thread objective/factual***
Let me know if there are any other questions.
10-13-2005, 11:16 AM
#14
Bye TSX, hello domestic?
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Originally Posted by Zasker1
I belive that Xior has these on his car, but I dont think he ever got a copy of a dyno.
10-13-2005, 11:55 AM
#15
Polar Chicken
hmmm, I wonder it was that did thsi first, it was back in March of this year, I had spoken with both Shawn and Jim at UR and they had a person that did an install and dyno and they were going to post it on their site, but I never did see the dyno. I belive the pullys are the same set as used on the RSX correct.
If I had not just bought a CAT and bumper I might give this a go but I am realy supprised that no dyno is available from UR as logic would dictate that they had tried this on a TSX before marketing it???/
If I had not just bought a CAT and bumper I might give this a go but I am realy supprised that no dyno is available from UR as logic would dictate that they had tried this on a TSX before marketing it???/
10-13-2005, 12:53 PM
#16
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Is the pulley on the alternator changed also?
Would this effect the electrical components?
I have a lot of electronics running in my car, so that's one of my concerns.
Would this effect the electrical components?
I have a lot of electronics running in my car, so that's one of my concerns.
10-19-2005, 02:35 PM
#18
C'mon, man! Row yer own.
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Stupid question on my part: so the basic idea is that a smaller-diameter and lighter crank pulley is and lighter (but stock-diameter) accessory pulleys decrease the drag of the alternator, p/s and a/c?
Why would that be bad for the engine's bearings? Does it really free up noticeable hp? What's the downside?
Why would that be bad for the engine's bearings? Does it really free up noticeable hp? What's the downside?
10-19-2005, 02:44 PM
#19
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get dzuy to do it since he has done everything else for power. and :thisisworthlesswithoutatsxdyno:
10-19-2005, 03:02 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by CCColtsicehockey
get dzuy to do it since he has done everything else for power. and :thisisworthlesswithoutatsxdyno:
10-19-2005, 03:31 PM
#21
Drives With Hands
Originally Posted by peter_bigblock
Why would that be bad for the engine's bearings? Does it really free up noticeable hp? What's the downside?
The upside is about as much more power as a CAI or something. The downside is that your accessories will be underpowered while the engine is down close to idle. At most driving speeds, crank RPM will be high enough above idle to spin the underdriven accessories well into their "normal" operating range and you will not notice a difference. I've never run a set, and I'd have to see the dimensions of the new pulley set to calculate, but it seems as though they're not underdriven by a dangerous amount.
10-19-2005, 03:44 PM
#22
Polar Chicken
So we have a $300 part that we need a gunipig for as nobody knows what sort of gains we will see. if 10 Peoople want to contribute $10 towards dyno pulls, I would buy this part and put it on my car.
I would pay for it myself but I am already budgeted for a Reflash, CAT, Dyno before and after.
I would pay for it myself but I am already budgeted for a Reflash, CAT, Dyno before and after.
10-19-2005, 03:46 PM
#23
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I say give them to dzuy for free an have him get them dynoed
10-22-2005, 01:24 PM
#24
C'mon, man! Row yer own.
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Originally Posted by rmpage
Underdrive pulleys don't really "free up" anything the way most other mods do...
I have a sense that under-driving works without any noticeable tradeoffs (I just have the factory electronics to run) -- I'll put this one in the "mods to think about in the future" column.
11-12-2005, 03:14 PM
#26
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So I'm assuming no one got these yet? I sort of want to do something new to my car since I haven't modded it in a while. I was debating whether or not I should pick these up.
11-12-2005, 03:54 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by PixelHarmony
So I'm assuming no one got these yet? I sort of want to do something new to my car since I haven't modded it in a while. I was debating whether or not I should pick these up.
11-13-2005, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CCColtsicehockey
Please be the tester for the rest of the forum.
11-15-2005, 09:39 AM
#30
Here's a link to a thread in the TL section. Obviously there are tons of 2nd gen CL/TL guys who have done this mod and loved it. But here is a link to a thread that has a lot of the 04+ TL owners doing the mod and what they thought: UR Crank Pulley
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