RedShift Motorsports Supercharger
12-15-2006, 06:04 AM
#241
Drives With Hands
Originally Posted by tsxy87
The only thing that sucks...is that it's not whp! Other than that, 
12-15-2006, 07:52 AM
#242
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 55
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
driveline losses
Originally Posted by rmpage
Reduce it by ~17% to adjust for parasitic and driveline losses and the result will be close. It is easy to do - they do the opposite to get bhp numbers from a chassis dyno, after all.
So, 370 bhp measured at the crank of a TSX will be 325 +/- hp at the wheels.
Chris at RedShift
12-15-2006, 09:55 AM
#244
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Age: 48
Posts: 7,594
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
Originally Posted by RedShiftChris
Generally FWD is 12-13%, RWD is 15-17, and AWD is 20-24% under power. It depends a little bit on how much power you are making. The transmission loss at higher hp is relatively lower than at lower hp. And fluids make a difference too.
So, 370 bhp measured at the crank of a TSX will be 325 +/- hp at the wheels.
Chris at RedShift
So, 370 bhp measured at the crank of a TSX will be 325 +/- hp at the wheels.
Chris at RedShift
12-16-2006, 03:38 PM
#246
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 55
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
btw... we are going to be doing a RedShift US Tour from LA to NYC (like a reverse Cannonball) from about Jan 18th with the new twin screw Civic Si. Anyone want to see it or have an event or track day worth attending?
Chris at RedShift
Chris at RedShift
12-16-2006, 09:32 PM
#249
Senior Moderator
Hell, I guarantee DC area TSXers would flock to it to check it out if you made a stop. We've got zero other racing attractions other than the people. No one wants to see the capital anymore. 
On second thought, I don't suppose you could get it into the DC auto show? Groups present their cars there. Its held at the end of Jan every year. That would be a cool place for us all to meet up.
On second thought, I don't suppose you could get it into the DC auto show? Groups present their cars there. Its held at the end of Jan every year. That would be a cool place for us all to meet up.
12-18-2006, 02:32 PM
#250
Master Graphic Artist
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northbrook, IL
Age: 40
Posts: 2,859
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by RedShiftChris
btw... we are going to be doing a RedShift US Tour from LA to NYC (like a reverse Cannonball) from about Jan 18th with the new twin screw Civic Si. Anyone want to see it or have an event or track day worth attending?
Chris at RedShift
Chris at RedShift
How much is the deposit for the SC kit again?
12-18-2006, 02:41 PM
#251
I spend 2 much time here
Originally Posted by RedShiftChris
btw... we are going to be doing a RedShift US Tour from LA to NYC (like a reverse Cannonball) from about Jan 18th with the new twin screw Civic Si. Anyone want to see it or have an event or track day worth attending?
Chris at RedShift
Chris at RedShift
12-18-2006, 10:49 PM
#254
Drives With Hands
So you guys put a twin screw on a K20Z3? Do you have any pics? I'd really hope to see something similar for our engines. Flat boost across the rev range and good down-low grunt is a performance envelope that your average TSX driver would appreciate most, I would expect.
12-19-2006, 04:57 AM
#255
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 55
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With the Civic done, the TSX will be quick...should be done by end of January.
And to clarify...the US Tour will be in a Civic Si (not a TSX). And we need to be quick. We have a ton of work to do. We have requests for Maine, VA, Chicago, DC, and Connecticut...scattered. We'll do our best.
And the deposit is $2000 to get the 10% discount off retail of $4900. For TSX owners, that offer will be good until about Jan 20th or so.
Chris at RedShift
And to clarify...the US Tour will be in a Civic Si (not a TSX). And we need to be quick. We have a ton of work to do. We have requests for Maine, VA, Chicago, DC, and Connecticut...scattered. We'll do our best.
And the deposit is $2000 to get the 10% discount off retail of $4900. For TSX owners, that offer will be good until about Jan 20th or so.
Chris at RedShift
12-19-2006, 07:06 AM
#256
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Philadelphia Burbs
Age: 40
Posts: 1,727
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by RedShiftChris
With the Civic done, the TSX will be quick...should be done by end of January.
And to clarify...the US Tour will be in a Civic Si (not a TSX). And we need to be quick. We have a ton of work to do. We have requests for Maine, VA, Chicago, DC, and Connecticut...scattered. We'll do our best.
And the deposit is $2000 to get the 10% discount off retail of $4900. For TSX owners, that offer will be good until about Jan 20th or so.
Chris at RedShift
And to clarify...the US Tour will be in a Civic Si (not a TSX). And we need to be quick. We have a ton of work to do. We have requests for Maine, VA, Chicago, DC, and Connecticut...scattered. We'll do our best.
And the deposit is $2000 to get the 10% discount off retail of $4900. For TSX owners, that offer will be good until about Jan 20th or so.
Chris at RedShift
12-19-2006, 08:40 AM
#258
I spend 2 much time here
Originally Posted by RedShiftChris
With the Civic done, the TSX will be quick...should be done by end of January.
And to clarify...the US Tour will be in a Civic Si (not a TSX). And we need to be quick. We have a ton of work to do. We have requests for Maine, VA, Chicago, DC, and Connecticut...scattered. We'll do our best.
And the deposit is $2000 to get the 10% discount off retail of $4900. For TSX owners, that offer will be good until about Jan 20th or so.
Chris at RedShift
And to clarify...the US Tour will be in a Civic Si (not a TSX). And we need to be quick. We have a ton of work to do. We have requests for Maine, VA, Chicago, DC, and Connecticut...scattered. We'll do our best.
And the deposit is $2000 to get the 10% discount off retail of $4900. For TSX owners, that offer will be good until about Jan 20th or so.
Chris at RedShift
12-19-2006, 11:01 AM
#259
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Philadelphia..., well Ambler
Age: 42
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
would it be ok to set up atime to stop by your shop......, Im kinda from the area.... back and forth from philly to the poconos all the time....., let me know if this would be possible....???.....thanks........
12-19-2006, 11:14 PM
#261
WAS HONDATAFIED IN
Originally Posted by RedShiftChris
Hi to all TSX owners,
One question we have for all you is about what power levels to offer for TSX owners...and other applications as well. We've just been promoting "base" and "intercooled" kits , but I think there may be value in stages or the like based on several requests for different things we've gotten. Our thought is the following...and remember that each kit is upgradeable to any level above it.
Stage 1) 5 PSI Base Kit - 260 bhp - $3900
Stage 2) 9 PSI Intercooled Kit - 310 bhp - $4400
Stage 3) 12 PSI Intercooled Kit - 370 bhp - $4900 (would require upgraded clutch add $900 for parts and labor)
Stage 4) 16-22 PSI Intercooled Race Kits - 420-500 bhp - $5400 includes headgasket for 9:1 compression and arp head stud replacement. (would require upgraded clutch add $900 for parts and labor. upgraded pistons and rods required for anything over 16 psi most likely.)
....btw 16 psi or more is very doable with just lowering the compression with a thicker headgasket.... without building the bottom of the engine, but you'll need to upgrade the clutch obviously. Trans durability is a question mark too.
So, knowing this, what would you actually do??? I know everyone wants the most power they think is reasonable for their needs, but based on price and power, which one would you actually purchase. And keep in mind that the 450 bhp system would be almost dangerous and would be only for highly modified street cars, show cars, or track cars.
And I can see the questions flowing in already....this is not about getting specific.... just knowing what you see above, what kit would be your choice? The answers will help us understand TSX owners.
Cheers to all!
Chris at RedShift
One question we have for all you is about what power levels to offer for TSX owners...and other applications as well. We've just been promoting "base" and "intercooled" kits , but I think there may be value in stages or the like based on several requests for different things we've gotten. Our thought is the following...and remember that each kit is upgradeable to any level above it.
Stage 1) 5 PSI Base Kit - 260 bhp - $3900
Stage 2) 9 PSI Intercooled Kit - 310 bhp - $4400
Stage 3) 12 PSI Intercooled Kit - 370 bhp - $4900 (would require upgraded clutch add $900 for parts and labor)
Stage 4) 16-22 PSI Intercooled Race Kits - 420-500 bhp - $5400 includes headgasket for 9:1 compression and arp head stud replacement. (would require upgraded clutch add $900 for parts and labor. upgraded pistons and rods required for anything over 16 psi most likely.)
....btw 16 psi or more is very doable with just lowering the compression with a thicker headgasket.... without building the bottom of the engine, but you'll need to upgrade the clutch obviously. Trans durability is a question mark too.
So, knowing this, what would you actually do??? I know everyone wants the most power they think is reasonable for their needs, but based on price and power, which one would you actually purchase. And keep in mind that the 450 bhp system would be almost dangerous and would be only for highly modified street cars, show cars, or track cars.
And I can see the questions flowing in already....this is not about getting specific.... just knowing what you see above, what kit would be your choice? The answers will help us understand TSX owners.
Cheers to all!
Chris at RedShift
nighthawk, who is contemplating a return to acura, if redshift holds true to there above quote.....
12-20-2006, 02:19 AM
#262
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 55
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh, this has gotten a bit confusing from the pricing/staging side. The twinscrew kit will come in 2 versions only because we must cool the charge for a street car (due to idle heat issues).
1) Intercooled 10 psi $4900
2) Low compression Intercooled 16 psi $5400
And nighthawk knows his stuff.... the charger is about $400 more; so the price could go up, but we are waiting to see our final costs to do that so we make 1 change and that's final. Right now we are still taking pre-orders at the old price and WILL NOT increase it for those people. But if we determine the price has to go up, then there will be absolutely no going back to the "old price" for anyone. We've had alot of interest, but not many people buying for the obvious reason that nobody really know what the end result will be. We understand completely.
And we'll be at Hondata in California with our Civic Si on Jan 17th. Doug has said he's more comfortable in his own surroundings because he feels the result can be better when he has all the tools he needs; so we are making the effort to go there for the best result possible. We'll be doing dyno power tuning and street driveability tuning. And we are driving the car the whole way there and back. That'll be a decent about of shaking down.
From the Hondata work, we will have dyno plots. We probably won't have anything before that other than seat of the pants dyno thoughts and some pics or videos for you to see. For reasons I won't go into now, we are working hard to understand every application our kit will see; and that way, much of the hardware engineering for the last kit we tackle (Element?) will be finished during development of this Civic Si kit now. Lowest common denominator where it doesn't affect performance. These chargers are large enough that a balance between ease of install, performance, cost, and lowest common denominator makes this a very involved development at this point.
We will likely not make it to any part of the country Northeast of PA. Chances are will be taking a southern route across the country as the mid and northern routes can be a problem with winter weather.
And anyone can stop by anytime they want to. Again, we are a VERY small shop that isn't very impressive.... no fancy facilities. Gotta survive to succeed. Like they say in racing, you can't win a race in the first turn, but you can sure loose it. Low overhead/expenses is important...and close second to having the knowledge of how to get this kind of thing done right.
Stay tuned because things are going to start happening quickly.
Regards all,
Chris at RedShift
1) Intercooled 10 psi $4900
2) Low compression Intercooled 16 psi $5400
And nighthawk knows his stuff.... the charger is about $400 more; so the price could go up, but we are waiting to see our final costs to do that so we make 1 change and that's final. Right now we are still taking pre-orders at the old price and WILL NOT increase it for those people. But if we determine the price has to go up, then there will be absolutely no going back to the "old price" for anyone. We've had alot of interest, but not many people buying for the obvious reason that nobody really know what the end result will be. We understand completely.
And we'll be at Hondata in California with our Civic Si on Jan 17th. Doug has said he's more comfortable in his own surroundings because he feels the result can be better when he has all the tools he needs; so we are making the effort to go there for the best result possible. We'll be doing dyno power tuning and street driveability tuning. And we are driving the car the whole way there and back. That'll be a decent about of shaking down.
From the Hondata work, we will have dyno plots. We probably won't have anything before that other than seat of the pants dyno thoughts and some pics or videos for you to see. For reasons I won't go into now, we are working hard to understand every application our kit will see; and that way, much of the hardware engineering for the last kit we tackle (Element?) will be finished during development of this Civic Si kit now. Lowest common denominator where it doesn't affect performance. These chargers are large enough that a balance between ease of install, performance, cost, and lowest common denominator makes this a very involved development at this point.
We will likely not make it to any part of the country Northeast of PA. Chances are will be taking a southern route across the country as the mid and northern routes can be a problem with winter weather.
And anyone can stop by anytime they want to. Again, we are a VERY small shop that isn't very impressive.... no fancy facilities. Gotta survive to succeed. Like they say in racing, you can't win a race in the first turn, but you can sure loose it. Low overhead/expenses is important...and close second to having the knowledge of how to get this kind of thing done right.
Stay tuned because things are going to start happening quickly.
Regards all,
Chris at RedShift
12-20-2006, 06:28 AM
#264
Time to Climb
RedShiftChris, things are starting to sound very interesting 
. I'm seriously considering the 10psi intercooled supercharger kit. however, i have an 05 auto so there will be issues with my ecu. see what you and doug from hondata can come up with - besides, of course, purchasing an 04 ecu.
thanks,
vinny
. I'm seriously considering the 10psi intercooled supercharger kit. however, i have an 05 auto so there will be issues with my ecu. see what you and doug from hondata can come up with - besides, of course, purchasing an 04 ecu. thanks,
vinny
12-21-2006, 06:00 AM
#265
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 55
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll be sure to review our capabilities with Doug in the near future. The TSX development car is an 05 5spd actually... so we'll obviously do what is the best bang for the buck on that model. I will need to see how transferrable the maps are, but I'd bet they are fairly easy to transfer, only needing an on-car confirmation before release.
Regards,
Chris
Regards,
Chris
12-21-2006, 07:03 PM
#269
Senior Moderator
Hey it could happen!
5 speed custom made manual tranny anyone? > http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19817
5 speed custom made manual tranny anyone? > http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19817
12-22-2006, 10:06 AM
#271
WAS HONDATAFIED IN
Originally Posted by jdepasqu2
May be a dumb question but why would u want a 5spd? just wondering......, I really like having 6 gears........... better for racing??
of course, there are many factors why one would choose 5sp over 6sp, cause my above arguement can be destroyed by and porsche or corvette, but gearing ratios has a major factor to play, my subaru legacy is perfect as a 5sp, except i would have loved to have a 6th for highway crusing, because at 70 im at 3000rpm and in boost causing gas mileage the same as an H2 hummer. the sti has a 6th and does the same thing, but because of the short gearing the turbo is always at full boost when shifting, which is another reason it is faster then the legacy. and cause of the pimp factor... i have a 6sp you have a 5sp....
12-28-2006, 10:57 PM
#277
Rep'n Taxbrain.com
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: N. Cali-forn-i-a
Age: 44
Posts: 7,075
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Originally Posted by rmpage
Have you guys figured out how you'll be running the fuel system? Will there be any options to run larger injectors and increased fuel pressure?
Originally Posted by JTso
I would think the ideal fuel management solution is to use larger injectors and trim back the injector pulse width during idle by the ECU programming. This allows stock fuel pressure and keeping the stock fuel pump.
12-29-2006, 09:15 AM
#278
Drives With Hands
That's what I figured, but I seem to recall Hondata having issues with larger injectors and the CTSC, thus the need for boosted fuel pressure. Also, I'm not sure what the max flow rate of the OEM fuel pump is but what do you think the odds are of it being able to support 300 bhp? To do so it would be running at over 150% of designed capacity.
Just thinking about things.
Just thinking about things.
12-29-2006, 10:44 PM
#279
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 55
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fuel Injectors
We are still working on the best method for providing fuel. We can increase fuel pressure, modify the stock injectors, or use aftermarket injectors. We are trying to keep the stock injectors for the Stage 1 kits, and we will definitely go to aftermarket injectors for the higher Stages..... just not yet sure what we will need to do on the TSX specifically from stage to stage yet.
Chris at RedShift
Chris at RedShift
01-02-2007, 03:21 PM
#280
Originally Posted by RedShiftChris
Oh, and we'll post pics in a few weeks when we have the car done and on the road.
Chris
Chris
Any updates as to when the civic will go on tour? Specific dates/locations I mean...particularly i'm curious about a VA date/location. I have a road trip planned myself for late January and I would hate to miss the civic if its going to be in VA.