NwTSXmt

stage 3 mo power mo better

Tsx536

Well since throttle position effects the MAP, in a way they both help control the Vtec engagement. But now that I think about it, I think you are correct in that in my reflash that the TPS reading is not being looked at. If I remember correctly in the newer reflashes, Hondata began using the throttle position or TPS reading more in order to help smooth out the hesitation.

This has actually been a tough thing for me to recognize. I have an ODBII diagnostic tool, Brockway R920, which reads data from the ECU. The problem is that the MAP sensor voltage had to be clamped in order to prevent the ECU from seeing boost and throwing a CEL. Therefore the ECU stops seeing a proper MAP reading once the ECU sees boost. In order to get around this, and help see my proper MAP reading/boost levels. I ended up installing an external MAP sensor add-on to the R920. I now get a proper MAP and boost reading, and it looks like Vtec engages when the MAP hits about 114 kPa. Hopefully by now Doug has found out a way to allow the ECU to see the proper MAP without it throwing a CEL. This should help him be able to tune under boost.

That's an interesting theory that you've have about the hesitation and it being related to the bypass valve on the blower. This is the first I've heard of this. The theory I mentioned above came directly from Comptech who heard it from Hondata. Apparently their TL had a similar problem and they left their test car with Doug for a few weeks to get it fixed. I can't really comment on your theory, I'm not an expert myself. I'm just some guy who got a supercharger and has learned a little along the way

RedShiftChris

MAP and TPS are related, that's very true. Speaking from an engine tuning point of view, a TPS signal is a vastly inferior indication of an engine's airflow. Some old engine management systems used TPS like the old Hilborn system, and having dyno tuned a South African built GT40 replica with Hilborn engine management, I can vouch that the system has it's problems. MAP is a fair more pure way to show an engine's potential airflow....I say potential because it only gives a pressure and not an airflow...it assumes an airflow at a given rpm and pressure.

Doug at Hondata is an exceedingly intelligent guy, and I'd be amazed if he doesn't understand the problem; so I'm not sure my theory is correct. And it could be a couple different things.... Isn't it always more than 1 thing????

Chris at RedShift

Redshiftmotorsports

Hey guys thought I would keep you updated we have changed one thing on the development kit. We will be using the ASA supercharger, not the rotrex any more. They are still a centrifical supercharger so the efficency is just as good. I know why did we choose this one over the rotrex now?
1) ASA uses improved technology in the planetary system that allows use of your engine's oil rather than having to fit an additional oiling system with the specific ATF-style fluid required by all Rotrex units.
2) The ASA units utilizes a clutched drive that allows a smoother idle and improved stop-start driveability.
3) Superior engineering a technical capability shown by ASA as compared to Rotrex
4) Used by Ruf, Hamann etc...including the newest Ruf Porsche Kompressor R
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=117299

We are also seriously investigating twin screw designs. The Lysholm twin screw is probably better suited to the lack of low rpm power in many Honda/Acura applications and they have excellent efficiency under high boost (unlike a roots blower). The only issues with the Lysholm is 1) packaging because twin screws are larger and 2) cost. So hopefully sooner rather than later you will see a Twin screw for our cars.

Reach

lovin the updates... its like someone finally cares about our cars! Keep it up!

Redshiftmotorsports

I own a TSX so I have to care

I can't edit the other post I dunno why but I meant to say
They are still a PlANETARY supercharger so the efficency is just as good Not
"They are still a centrifical supercharger so the efficency is just as good."
Any questions I am here Thanks all Greg

jiggaman

its so good to know someone cares















just messing with ya, keep up the good work man, cant wait to see the finished result

Tsx536

Yep, I agree with what you're saying about the MAP sensor being a better indication of the engine's airflow. I think you guys have already made a great move in getting Hondata to help you develop the engine management.

And thanks for the updates, I don't know much about ASA, but when I do a google search then I get a lot of hits from Audi and BMW forums. Very interesting. So at this point do you know if the estimated costs that you posted before will stay the same?

Redshiftmotorsports

They should most def. stay the same. ASA chargers are real big in Europe. Used on some prety nice cars, by some pretty good companies. Alpina, Ruf, and some other high end European tuners use them. They are an excellent quality unit.

jiggaman

if they are ok for RUF than i guess they should do for tsx!

ducksauce110

all this reading is getting me anxious... going to have to work some over time this summer and use some of my scholarship money. well maybe not the scholarship money

chuson

Any update on Engine Management Compatibility w/ 05AT?

rmpage

If you end up using a Lysholm compressor I might end up getting one of these.

To hell with the cost, BEST COMPRESSOR EVER.

NightHawk CL9

i may have to trade in my legacy for a tsx, again...... still has to be nighthawk/ebony

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Many people who run the Eaton JRSC have experienced a typical tip-in detonation issue related to how quickly the boost build-up and how quickly the ECU is able to transition out of closed-loop mode. This condition results a split second lean a/f and slight hesitation when the ECU is still trying to maintain 14.7:1 a/f. The old style JR fuel enrichment relay which modifies the IAT signal didn't help. Some have decided to modify the TPS signal to the ECU by using the boost pressure switch from the intake manifold as a trigger to a relay. The modification also involves with adding a resistor bus using one 2.2K ohms and one 22 K ohms resistor. When the pressure switch detects 1 psi, the output of the relay bypass the normal TPS signal and sends a modified 4.55v to the ECU tricking the ECU as WOT which forces the ECU into opened-loop mode.

It worked fine but still was not good enough. The better solution later came from Hondata programmable ECU which allows control of when to exit closed-loop mode based on engine load using the MAP sensor. This means if closed-loop mode is set to exit before atmospheric pressure, the ECU will not fight your attempt to add fuel during boost transition, and hopefully cures the fuel related hesitation issue.

vt4lifecuf

wow they make supercharge for civic ex dx lx...ehh why not the honda accord since they has better motor

vt4lifecuf

Are you planning making any kit for honda accord? it has more tuners then the civic

hrj

iTrader: (1)

huh? better motor?

Redshiftmotorsports

If we feel it would be a worthwile venture then yes. So I can't really say right now. Greg

PixelHarmony

Greg,

So with a ASA setup we should be expecting more HP over the Rotrex blower? A buddy of mine used to have a E46 and always talked about getting a ASA kit bringing him to 500+ WHP. Also would there be an issue with cooling the ASA charger with our engine oil if we don't religously change it every 3k miles or after a few intense weekends of autocrossing?

I personally don't know much about the technical details in FI setups, so when I heard the CCX has a Twin Rotrex setup I was excited! Now I heard ASA I'm equally waiting to be one of the first in line to get this setup! I'll definately take a drive out to PA on my way to visit a friend in Bethesda, MD given you'll be willing to do the install.

Thank God you bought a TSX and can share the love of tuning it with all of us!

PixelHarmony

This is very superficial of me, but one thing is that I never really liked the sound of the comptech SC on the TSX. Granted I don't have any first hand experience listening to it, this is all based off clips members posted on here. But I feel the tone is a bit too low of a whine.

I did find a sound clip of the Rotrex charger on a ITR

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...96874&q=rotrex

I'm guessing this will be somewhat similar to the sound we should expect out of a ASA charger as well. Which I like

I never actually heard a clip of the Lysholm charger so I did a quick search on it and found

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...4684&q=lysholm

If this is typically what it sounds like, I like the higher note over the lower whine of the Comptech charger.

Yes.. it's time for me to finally sleep... at 7:20 in the morning.

jmathew34

^^ the whine of the comptech supercharger is magnified a bit if you have a short-ram intake...

but my supercharger makes a klunking noise now and my past week was one of the worsts for me...

PixelHarmony

Man that sucks, hope you get that taken care of by comptech.

From what I was told by one of my buddies with a 06 Si, comptech chargers have been giving them a lot of problems over at Club Si as well on the 06+ models.

RedShiftChris

That's the obvious way to do it, and modifying the TPS signal based on MAP is extremely easy. We also know it's possible to alter the target a/f based in boost areas; so that's a possibility too, but once we get to higher boost levels, it's probably going to be better to run completely open loop so there are no dire failure mode issues.

We continue to gain important development partners, and our development cabilities in engine managementsecond to none. We have a couple projects in the coming weeks including a 450 hp 06 Civic Si (K24) endurance racecar that are important to our ongoing development and related directly to longevity of our street s/c kits. We have alot of work to do and we'll keep steady progress.

And the new Accord is very similar to the other models in many ways...the K24 is similar to the TSX and the V6 is similar to the TL. So, that has always been squarely on the development target.

When we release a system, it will be best engineering, best usable power, and best driveability.

Cheers,
Chris

jmathew34

^^yeah, unfortunately comptech is not open on the weekends...will have to wait till monday to get anything done...

and from speaking with a few guys over at clubrsx who have had problems..comptech has been nothing but awesome with customer service...plus the units have a 3 yr warranty..

ACCURATEin

Thank you for showing interest in the new generation Acura lineup.

I look forward to the finished product.

Eric

rmpage

A lot of the noise signature depends on what intake you have feeding the compressor. As a general rule, a Lysholm unit will produce a higher pitched and more pronounced whine than a Roots does, because the frequency of the "pockets" of air in its discharge is higher. This is due to the internal construction of the compressor. Aside from the higher cost, this design is superior in every way to a Roots blower, and for a daily driver without much low end torque I would take one over a centrifugal compressor any day.

My favorite video of a Lysholm unit is on this GTO. 685 RWHP baby yeah!

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player....B098596683&p=0

PixelHarmony

^

MAN! I was actually looking around for that video for a while! I remember the disctint sound of that supercharger and didn't know what type it was. I was on streetfire for like 30 min last night looking for GTO videos to find that bad boy!

Thanks for relieving my brain.

Redshiftmotorsports

Pixel

We know that the ASA units will run with better efficeny. As with any engine just make sure you change your oil And of course we will do installs on all of our kits we develope. Greg

Tsx536

If you have an Injen intake it's actually a pretty loud whine. Here's a quick video clip of me with the Injen in CAI at night with the windows down:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...05005881914448

bchang2001

any new updates?? also when is the preorder over?

hrj

iTrader: (1)

read post #1

Dan Martin

You mean newer updates than the update he gave 3 days ago? I think he's been very good about giving updates, let's not pester them too much.

Redshiftmotorsports

No worries You can still pre-order now for the discount. BUT I don't know how much longer that will be going on, once we do release it I know it won't. Also we appreciate your patience, we are going as fast as we can we just will absoutly NOT compromise quality just to get the product out.
As of now no real new updates, just its going along very smoothly and soon, but I am here to answer any questions I can.

godfather2

will the supercharger systems work with our 2005 autos?

Reach

I'm sure it would... with a 2004 AT ECU matched up.

godfather2

^ that's what i didn't want to hear

moda_way

I think as previously stated, Hondata will be doing the ECU tunes for the specific applications. If I'm right about that, then we know the answer to the 05 AT question.

ryebreadisme

iTrader: (1)

These new TSX chargers sound great, and I'd love an alternative to the comptech blower. Does Red Shift have any plans at this point to release a unit for the Second Generation TL?

tsxy87

The only thing that sucks...is that it's not whp! Other than that,