jwood_06TSX

If i can get the money together, which i'm hoping too, i would def be down for the stage 2 as long as the AT can handle the power without a lot of other mod's!!!

Chris- do you guys have hours on saturdays?? I would like to stop by one of these days but only have off on weekend normally!

RedShiftChris

Our only official ours are 9-5 m-f. When we have the kit close to done, we'll invite you all here for a preview btw.

Cheers,
Chris

Zasker1

I am not aware of any car that gained 90hp via in intercooler. This kit must have a different pulley as well.

Zasker1

Kenny,
How is the wheel slip with the Comptech SC? Is an LSD a must?

simplyscion

id highly doubt you would need an LSD for the comptech SC...its just not putting down enough tq. What kind of 60' ft times is everyone getting with their supercharger setups...anything under a 2.1 would be decent without an LSD

TSX559

Ill go with a stage 2. Only if it pass CARB. Im in cali with a 04 5AT. Otherwise, Ill just go with a Comptech SC instead.

rmpage

If a manual can handle it then an auto definitely can.

CCColtsicehockey

I am not following the thought process.

joerockt

There's one.

And count me as two as this is a consideration for me once the warranty is up.

jiggaman

stage 2 is sounding pretty good to me

simplyscion

+1...please dont tell me Honda builds stronger auto trannies than the manuals...that would just be so sad

TSX559

Crossing my fingers. Hopefully it passes CARB for CA. Just have to wait for the final product.

moda_way

I'd be concerned about the clutch packs, valves and seal to start with... That doesn't even begin to talk about the torque convertor, cool (though the stock may be adequate). I'm not saying the AT will blow up on first launch, but at 310hp, that's 1.5 times more power being sent through the tranny. I'm pretty sure Honda doesn't test their OEM equipment for that much stress. Question is, who will be the first to find out?

moda_way

Yeah, ask someone with a Prelude that has an AT. LOL

CCColtsicehockey

probably me

rmpage

Generally speaking, a hydrostatic coupling's viscous nature (e.g. its ability to slip under high torque) makes it much more tolerant of high loading than a dry clutch is. Instead of pads scraping against a plate you have two impellers immersed in a fluid, between which there is no direct mechanical connection. As long as you can manage heat properly by cooling the ATF fast enough (easy), the operating envelope of an AT will extend beyond that of an MT rated for the same capacity by a sizeable margin.

I have no idea what the AT is rated for, but I don't see why they'd design the manual to handle more power when it's in the same car. Any time you push a system beyond its design envelope, stuff breaks faster.

Red_TSX

04 Auto stage 2=customer

Tsx536

Yeah definitely a higher boost pulley. Adding an intercooler can actually lower the boost level so you need a higher boost pulley to bring the PSI back up. They are probably also adding higher flow injectors along with updated engine management.

It's not too bad for me, but I'm usually light on the throttle on take offs. My cars a daily driver and I put on a lot of miles, so I usually try to go easy on my tires. If you were to gun it from a stop or on a turn, you can definitely let it loose. And this is with my auto too, I'm sure it's even easier to let it loose with the MT SC kit which puts down 20 more whp, (244 whp for the manual) along with more torque.

moda_way

True, loading an AT is far easier to manage than a dry clutch. I'm not sure 310hp is managed any better by the AT though. The clamping force of an improved clutch (not to mention multiplate clutches) have applications in the 1000hp and higher range. That is excessive, but none-the-less, a dry clutch in this application is quite acceptable.

This is true for both AT and MT. I have less concerns for the clutch in the MT configuration at 310hp. I do think the OEM clutch, throw-out bearing, and pressure plate should be upgraded though. The flywheel gets upgraded only because to get a better friction material and pressure plate in our cars, you have to change the flywheel out (at least from what I have seen).

rmpage

That's what I've been saying. The guy questioned whether or not the stock AT could hold the power of a Stage 2 kit. Unless the people with MTs are melting clutches, he has nothing to worry about. The TSX 5AT, or any AT, is stronger than its manual counterpart by virtue of its design. I wasn't discussing modified transmissions. If you're willing to go down that road, almost anything is possible provided you can pay for it.

moda_way

I suppose if the Stock Si they mention is doing okay, then it goes to say we should be okay. Just a little bit of an unknown.

Redshiftmotorsports

I will let you know how long my stock clutch lasts....I am using my own civic si and my own tsx to test these kits so...I may be installing a new clutch but I doubt it. I will let you guys know

moda_way

Yeah, just a discussion topic. I think we're all extremely excited that you have taken on such an ambitious project. More importantly, you have all the right folks involved... Rotrex and Hondata. Any word on who will be making the intercooler?

EuRTSX

Can't wait to see how this project comes out. Keep us updated Redshift!

Redshiftmotorsports

Not as of yet, but as the rest of our parts it is going to be TOP quality, just like our customer service is Like you know how people with other kits on different cars can have issues with tensioners and belt slippage I want NO issues with our kit. No shredding belts, slipping, etc!!! That is something that is something that I feel is lacking in the aftermarket industry with alot of companies customer service!! That is were we will excel. That is also why we are not trying to skimp on ANY of the parts we use. I would rather have it over engineered that under!!

I am not going anywhere I am working on modding my Navi couldn't do it without this site

rmpage

Yeah, I'm glad you guys seem to be making your presence firmly known here. That's a great confidence builder for me. Hondata does the same thing with who knows how many forums and it's awesome to have Doug come in here every now and then and set us right on a question. We all appreciate it.

Reach

glad to have you actively here.

psykotik

bump!!!

Redshiftmotorsports

Were still here, development takes time We want it perfect not just right.

jiggaman

definately man, i'm just glad to see another company doing this besides comptech.

Tsx536

That's great that you're still checking in

Any news from Hondata about the engine management and whether they've been able to tune and control the fuel under boost conditions on the TSX?

jmathew34

^^yes, any update on engine management? anything you can divulge to us yet?
can you confirm/deny any hesitation between 2-3k rpm? (those with ct s/c will know what i mean)

Redshiftmotorsports

Not as of yet, BUT I can garen-dam-tee you we will make this work. I own a TSX myself so I want this kit just as much as any of you Oh I check evey night Where not going anywhere!!!

No idea about the hesitation, what do you guys think it could be? I haven't played with the comptech kit B4. I could guess :0

Tsx536

The main theory that I've heard is the that the ECU is staying in closed loop mode for too long and the hesitation comes as the ECU is switching from closed loop to open loop mode. In talking to Comptech and Hondata, apparently the TSX ECU and a lot of the newer ECUs are staying in closed loop mode a lot longer than they use to. So as this transition is happenning then there is a slight hesitation and then a surge of power once the ECU goes into open loop mode.

I've tested this theory by running for a month with my primary O2 sensor disconnected. Disconnecting the primary O2 sensor will force the ECU to stay in open loop at all times. Doing this actually helped a whole lot, the hesitation was just about gone, but the problem was it made my idle kind of irractic at times since the ECU did not have an air/fuel ratio reading to help it maintain a perfect 14.7. It also made me run richer, since the the A/F ratio for a supercharged TSX is tuned to be lower for engine safety reasons.

I've heard that Hondata came up with a new method of engaging open loop mode that was suppose to almost resolve this problem. I'm still waiting for a new TSX SC reflash with this fix though.

Redshiftmotorsports

That would make sense cause the Comptech probably doesn't really start to boost until then correct? I think maybee making the transition smoother will solve this if this is truly the issue. We will def. address any issues on our kits B4 they are released.

Tsx536

Yeah the boost doesn't really start until you hit Vtec. When Vtec enages it will put the ECU in open loop mode. Hondata tuned a Vtec window between 3K and 5K RPMs so Vtec will engage based on throttle position and the MAP reading. I'm not 100% on whether the MAP reading effects the Vtec engagement point, but it appears that way when I check my readings.

What's interesting though is that the transition is much smoother if I let the RPMs go to about 4K and then mash the gas. If I mash the gas before 3K, that seems to be the situation where I will experience the slight hesitation more often.

Have you guys decided where you will put the Vtec engagement point? Or will you be doing a Vtec window?

S14 n Tsx

still waiting...hehehe!!

CCColtsicehockey

my car is ready and sitting in my garage waiting for the notification to delieve it so you can work on it.

jaehshim

my 06 pwp waiting outside the parking lot....to bolt that Rotrex and show the world wut Vtec can do when supercharged....

and quite honestly to make my G35 friends cry in front of me ^ ^

RedShiftChris

My understanding is that it's not throttle point but rather MAP that affects VTEC crossover point. And I'm fairly sure we'll keep that window rather than fixing it at one point.

One thought I have is that this hesitation could be somewhat related to the bypass valve on the supercharger.... I don't know obviously, but my experience is that low rpm transition to boost in a Eaton S/C setup often results in slight delays and sporadic boost transition. But going open loop, you may be either helping the confusion in the ecu (because there isn't as much to decide) or you may just be deadening the power delivery and how it feels because of an over-rich condition. Of course, Doug at Hondata I'm sure understand this better than I do, and it may be completely different than that.

I'm sure we'll learn what it is evenually because we may run into it eventually.

Chris at RedShift