If and when Hondata finally comes out for the TSX I was wondering how effective of a base map we can get from sharing files from similar setups with other board members? And how much does it usually run to get your car tuned by a reputable shop?

 

I just asked a similar question in the main Hondata thread. Most people just download the correct file for the mods they've done. If you just do simple bolt-ons like I/H/E they have one file to cover all of those. If you go forced induction or change cams there's a different profile and so on...

Apparently very few people actually have their cars tuned on a dyno. From what I've read it can be very expensive because they'll be working on your car for 4-6 hours and you can make upwards of 20 dyno runs. Unless you have an exotic setup, it's probably not worth the returns.

 

Tuning = Plan on 500-700 bucks.
Stand alone probalby over 1k

 

When you are talking about tuning, then I assume it's the K-Pro or standalone type ECU. Because there isn't much you can do as far as tuning for the "Reflash" program. The Reflash is a "pre-tuned" map that will cover most I/H/E upgrades and it will not be optimized for your car. You should see gains but just don't expect it to be optimized. If you want to make changes to the existing reflash program, then you send in your ECU to one of the dealers and pay a fee for the change. If you are going forced induction, the reflash might not be what you want.

If it's a standalone type ECU, I personally don't prefer the dyno tuning which generally only tune for WOT, and the A/F is usually slightly off when you drive the same car on the street. I would prefer "street tuning" instead, then follow up by a dyno "verification" and perhaps some adjustments with the timing to optimize the gain. Street tuning can take a long time to complete depends on how fine tune the map you want. When I street tune with a wideband O2 sensor setup, I tune for practically the entire rpm range from idle to redline, and not just portions of the range, covering both non-boost and boost range, non-vtec and vtec mode.

If you are running boost, the "base map" is good enough for you to start the engine and drive to the tuner for the actual tuning. There are so many reports that people blew up their engines because they thought the base map allows them to run it without tuning.

Tuning can be expensive and time consuming. However, if you can fine an experienced tuner who has a collection of maps from other customers with similar setup, then the tuning time and cost can be reduced. In that case, it would be simply applying the map and make some minor adjustments.

 

JTs= Excelent Responce = $$$$

 

What would street tuning entail? What processes would you go through?

 

Also, can you have separate tuning maps for part throttle applications as well as WOT?

 

Street tuning requires the standalone ECU setup with datalogging capability, a wideband O2 setup that interfaces with the standalone ECU, vacuum/boost gauge to monitor load in relationship to rpm, fuel pressure gauge, and a nice stretch of road without traffic.

I use a modified version of the Hondata method but the general idea is to first establish some basic perimeters such as injector sizing, and static ignition timing. These info are programmed into the base map so the engine will start and idle correctly. The next step is to disable closed-loop mode so you take full control over fuel mixture during part throttle tuning. Also temporary disable boost for TC or SC so it doesn't interfer with the initial tuning. Also disable vtec by setting the crossover point to a high value to tune the entire rpm range using the low ignition/fuel map. When done, re-enable vtec by switching the crossover point to a very low value to tune the entire rpm range using high igntion/fuel map. This way, it doesn't matter where you set your vtec point, the igntion/fuel map will always be correct and tuned.

The next step is to enable datalogging. I start out with low load tuning with the vacuum gauge at around 18" of vacuum. I would slowly increase the rpm while maintaining the reading on the gauge. I would continue to increase the rpm until it reaches redline. Then I stop the datalogging and analyze the data base on the wideband O2 feedback, and make changes to certain area of the fuel map if necessary. I then repeat the process at 16" of vacuum and so on. Once the non-vtec map is done, I switch on vtec and repeat the entire process. Once that is done, I switch off vtec and enable boost but tune for increment psi until the entire boost range is tuned. When done, I switch on vtec and repeat the same process for boost again. This way, there won't be any flat spots regardless what rpm range, or boost psi the engine is running.

This process is very time consuming and I prefer to take my time. Many people only had their car tune on the dyno under wot would always complain about part throttle driveabilty. It is because boost can kick in at very low rpm and the so called tuned map wasn't tuned for that at wot.

Once street tuning is done, I then go to the dyno for verification and minor changes. If the map is tuned correctly, you shouldn't need a separate part throttle and wot maps. This is the method I used with the Hondata S200 system. I'm looking forward to play with the K-Pro when it becomes available.

 

Great post.

Thank you.

 

how about we just setup our cars like your's and then you just send out your maps

 

But I'm going turbo...

 

Well, send us the turbo too...

 

Unless you get someone good to do it.

My CRX was tuned in about an hour and a half and there are only about 5 pulls on the engine. That was with a Hondata on a turbo dinosaur CRX.

 

You know, once SC, TC, and standalone ECUs are available, we should have a "Forced Induction" forum and perhaps a "Library" to share maps.

 

I'm sure that can be arranged.

 

You and me both Johnny =)

 

I'll be happy with the comptech SC.