More info to come, but I'm at Kevin's house right now and he's installing a module that will allow me to keep VSA off once i turn off the car and restart it.

If I turn VSA back on, it will keep it on, so the module remembers the VSA state after you turn the car off.

Start showing your interest for GB!!!

 

Yo Moda_way, how often do your turn off VSA? I rarely do it unless Im trying to do a donut or something haha.

 

This modules original design was for the track. You shut TC (traction control) off when you enter the gate, and it stays off until you leave the track, and turn it back on.

However, we have found that some people dislike TC and never want it on. Also, some people only want TC on when its raining. The beauty of the KPtech 'switch memory module' is that you actually have TOTAL control over the state of the system, with NO automated resetting or defaulting.

 

Well now I'll be driving with it off always unless it rains. Most of the time I'd rather have it off but forget to reach down to turn it off. Now, I don't have to worry about it b/c it will stay off until I want to turn it back on. Sweet little module!!!

 

It would be nice to have a device that will allow you to programatically control the functions of VSA.

For example, I think the limited-slip emulation function is handy--apply brake to the faster turning wheel... makes the differential act as though it is limited slip.

I do not like it interfering with the throttle or timing at all, ever. I swear my throttle feels a little more responsive when VSA is turned off.

I'm also not completely fond of the understeer/oversteer correction because I've heard that under certain circumstances it can actually fight your instinctive attempts to correct your car's trajectory--making the situation worse.

 

Been there, done that. That's why I have a Comptech Exhaust. VSA fought me on an ice covered road. Took away my ability to push the throttle.

 

Well, I now see that you guys all have more experience and I must say more reason than I to disable VSA. I don't drive my car nearly as hard, or under such conditions as you will...I understand now. Forgive my ignorance!!!

 

On the flip side, I know VSA in the rain has helped me out. With the OEM tires, I hydroplaned a lot and I just felt the VSA taking control over the car. I have not complaints about VSA, but I also hate when I hit a bump under accelerate and the throttle goes limp for a millisecond. Roads suck in Ohio so it happens often.

 

I don't agree with this. It's just a matter of learning. If you switch from RWD to FWD you have to learn a new way to correct a skid; switching from a car without yaw control to one with is the same, except that the technique you have to learn is an extremely easy one: just keep the wheel pointed where you want to go and pretend nothing is going wrong. ABS is subject to the same caveat, and people had the same bullshit argument when it was new. I lived in western NY at the time and everybody knew all about pumping the brakes to help keep you alive when stopping on ice. Antilock brakes came out and people weren't buying them because the technique is different. Many years later, it's practically impossible to find a car without ABS and nobody would dream of saying it is worse than normal brakes.

Traction control and yaw control have their problems (especially traction control) but these are simply problems of bad (perhaps I should just say "insufficiently good") design of the electronic controls -- i.e. they sometimes kick in when they shouldn't (losing throttle on a bumpy road for instance). That, and those few times you want to intentionally spin a wheel (which should ONLY be on a private racetrack/dragstrip/skidpad/parking lot), are the only reasons it makes sense to turn them off IMO.

 

Yaw control has saved me at least once even in the dry. I went around a turn about 40mph faster than I should have and I don't think I would have had time to correct the understeer if VSA hadn't kicked on. I'm much more indifferent about traction control (VSA = yaw control + traction control; traction control is the one that kills your throttle when you go over bumps) and it would be nice to be able to turn it off independently of yaw control (this is what the "snow mode" in cars that have such a thing does, I think), because as you point out sometimes your wheels will be spinning slightly when you hit bumps but that does not imply that you don't have traction most of the time.

 

^^Not disagreeing at all. It is just a matter of taste. This module doesn't disable it permanently, it just disables the VSA reset when you turn the car off. For some I bet it will not be of interest, I just thought it was a really cool module.

 

Well, my opinion of the hardware doesn't hinge on your opinion. You're welcome to use it all you want, and I'll stand behind you (a good distance behind you because you're liable to lose control but nonetheless). However, I would like the option of selectively disabling separate functions of the VSA feature.

I think it is a liability because when the car starts to oversteer, I'm instinctively going to turn the wheel to point the front end where I want it to go. But VSA will do its own thing and thus cause my correction to overshoot--likely placing the car in additional danger. To tell a driver to keep steering where they were and let the car automagically find the road again is absurd and stupid. I suppose it is better than hanging up the cell phone or spilling the coffee though.

VSA desperately needs to evolve. Teves ABS/ASR and Bosch ABS/ESP (which dates back to the mid 1980s) is leaps and bounds better. Honda's vendor should've licensed the technology from Teves or Bosch instead of trying to copy the concept in-house. This is the same vendor that produced the useless 1-channel/2-circuit front wheel ABS system for the early 90s Accord.

At least Honda uses an excellent OEM tire vendor (Michelin).

 

Not trying to start a war Let me just restate my position this way: if two people learn to drive for the first time, one on a yaw-control-equipped car and one on a car not so equipped, then even several years later when they are both good drivers, the one with yaw control will be safer.

It's only absurd and stupid if you have already spent years building up the instincts to correct the skid manually. The bottom line is that electronics (in general) have the ability to do this much faster and better than a human at the wheel ever can.



I'm not sure if you're being facetious here... Michelin does make some truly excellent tires (the Pilot Sport 2, for instance); it's too bad that Honda chooses such god-awful selections from their line for stock tires.

 

Oh no, I might've come off as being aggressive but it wasn't my intent. You quoted me so I wanted to reciprocate and point out the reasons for my opinion. Now I understand the point you were trying to make. If someone learned how to drive in a car with a present-day VSA system and knew how to respond to it, they would be better off.

I suppose the loophole I see with that is very much related to the ABS issue, but opposite. When there is a panic stop situation, most people are going to floor the brake pedal and keep it there. It takes deliberate training and presence of mind to pump the brake pedal, especially when all your brain is screaming "STOP NOW".

So, ABS is an excellent tool. I have driven ABS cars for so long that I never pump the pedal. I have even relied on it when I've taken my previous cars to VIR for a driving event. ABS is a great driving tool, and I'm actually pretty impressed with the system on the TSX so far.

The EBD on the TSX is a little sluggish compared to a mechanical proportioning system (one connected to the suspension), but it's still an asset--better than a fixed proportioning system, which I assume is what the TSX had before.

However, if my car starts to oversteer and the front end starts pointing to the right of where I want to go, it is instinctive to turn the steering wheel to the left because that's where I want to go. I don't have to be told that--it is merely common sense, whereas pumping the brake pedal in a non-ABS car is not instinctive--it is a learned behavior.

VSA's response must be designed for non-active drivers that simply freeze up when panic situations arise. It is probably along the same lines as the emergency braking systems that some cars come equipped with now--ones that apply full braking force when it determines you are trying to make a panic stop.

Systems like this do nothing to stop the dumbing-down of consumers. The implementation of these systems should be discouraged, as a matter of principle.


And regarding Michelin tires--I was sincere. I have always had Michelins on my car, ever since I got my driver license. I can't imagine owning anything different. The factory tires on the TSX don't live up to the capabilities of the car, but they still aren't bad tires--just a bit of a trade-off.

 

I like VSA. But I dislike TC..... if only there was a way to "de-link" the two.

 

This module is on sale right now!

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...06#post5866906

 

Has anyone heard of this company and/or used their LSD conversion kit product?

http://www.phantomgrip.com/catalog/p...products_id=30

PHANTOM GRIP XTREME LSD KIT The Phantom Grip Limited Slip conversion kits install into your non-lsd differential converting it into a proven and competitive limited slip differential that enhances your traction needs. Phantom Grips 2-way LSD will considerably improve handling in daily driven, street/strip warrior, or full race vehicle. Every Phantom Grip is constructed of only the highest-quality hand selected materials. With over 500,000 miles of vigorous professional performance testing (SCCA, drag, rally, hill climb, ice, rain, etc.), we have been able to fine tune each application through specific heat treating and rockwell testing to achieve maximum performance and reliability. Each Phantom Grip unit is assembled with pressure tested matched sets of progressive-rate springs to achieve equal load distribution to the disc plates, which dramatically enhances reliability and performance. With such a passion for perfection, we at Phantom Grip are confident that when you choose a Phantom Grip unit, you are choosing, by far, the best limited slip conversion kit on the market.

 

^^I haven't and this is a very odd place to put it.

 

agreed..i had two acurazine windows up and posted to the wrong thread but didn't want to repost since its already here

 

Would suggest putting it in the right place so that it gets some attention.