mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

If you could not spin the tires it would be below 6 seconds.

jiggaman

that's what i think too, you'll need some stick tires up front, probably pretty wide too right?

JTso

iTrader: (2)

You might want to beef up the axles as well. When the tires don't spin, something has to give. It's also a challenge to control wheel hops.

jmf

What are wheel hops? Beef up the axles? What would you do? (Pardon my ignorance). The way I see it is yes, our stock tires suck and especially with a supercharger times off the line would benefit from better tires. If the tires spin, the VSA will kick in, unless you drive with it turned off all the time. I can see adding better brakes to stop faster, as the car will accelerate faster. But, as far as axles go, what would you do to "beef them up?" Should I replace my TSX axles with TL axles? I mean, after the supercharger, they will have roughly the same HP, TQ, and 0 to 60 times. Are the TL axles that much more heavy duty? Yes the TQ and HP will increase, but what other mods will truly be essential along with the supercharger besides engine management in order to have a faster, but safe, reliable TSX?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

My tires are only slightly wider than stock. 225 vs 215 on the CL-S.

Although they are quite sticky for an all-season tire.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Hopefully someone will come out with motor mount inserts and/or radius rod bushings for you TSX guys that will greatly reduce wheelhop with the added torque.

The amount of power from the supercharger will not be enough to worry about replacing the axles. Right now I have 100+ more wheel HP than a stock CL and the axles are fine. I've also made 170+ 1/4 mile passes in the car.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

TL axles will most definitely not fit in your car. Something designed for the RSX or maybe the Integra Type-R (since I know you can swap in the LSD from that car) might work. But like I said, it don't see it being needed.

You will want to upgrade your brakes. In my experience behind the wheel of a stock TSX, the brakes really leave a lot to be desired. A nice big brake kit, or even just upgraded rotors and pads with stainless steel brake lines would make a night and day difference.

Stokeless_TSX

He means stronger, after market axles. Wheel hops are when you accelerate and the wheels jump off the ground. they bounce. I am not sure if TL axles will fit in the TSX I think the length is too far off and its a V6 so I dont think it will match up with the tranny. I don't know but common sense tells me they wouldn't work.

jmf

Thanks for the info, but I was making a point that maybe an upgrade like that is overkill. The TL axles can't be that much stonger anyways, and it would cost more to buy the SC and an axle upgrade than it would to just buy the TL in the first place. That was my point, with all due respect to the suggestion.

NightHawk CL9

i talked to ingalls and they will be releasing "the stiffy" (torque dampner) for our car in the spring of 2005. i was gonna try and work with them on a custom/first tsx dampner, but i don't have the time/shop. so ingalls said the tsx was on their upcoming list of dampners to be made. that should help wheel hop a lot. a friend on the rsx has "the stiffy" and there is no wheel hop.

jmf

Good to know...thanks for the info.

JDMCL9T

Whats up fellow TSX'ers. This is a pretty long thread but I am definetly enjoying every bit of it. I love it when I see people having these "TC vs. SC" debates so im also gonna have to throw my "two cents" in. I agree with the point that some of you made saying that the SC fits the TSX better because it is a "refined/luxury" type of car but I am also a HP loving guy. Im not about to spend $3,500.00+ to SC my car only to get close to 100 additional whp when I can spend a little bit more and know I am getting something that can make anywhere from 80whp to God knows how much as long as the motor can take it. If you analyze the TSX, IMO it has the ingredients of being a real sleeper. Take for instance the motor, the K24. Can you imagine a K24 with a 7000+ redline with a big Ball Bearing turbo? If im not mistaken, someone here made the arguement that with TC, you will have lag. I can pretty much guarantee that lag will not be a problem for a 2.4 that can rev to 7000+ rpms with a "Big" BB-turbo. IMO, I like to look at the TSX as a RSX with 2 more doors and .4 more liters of displacement so technically, engine wise, whatever an RSX can do, a TSX can do better. Some of you might not agree with me but IMO if you build both motors equally, the K24 will put out better #'s than the K20. All im saying is that the performance potential of the TSX is there but most people like to look at the TSX as more of a luxury type of car and they don't see what it can potentially be. Imagine how it would be to daily drive a TC-TSX and no one would even know until they get beat by you. It is definetly possible, but the question is, how many of you out there would really do it?

My Wish List
- Custom Turbo Kit
- Hondata K-Pro
- RC 550cc injectors
- A real good clutch

NightHawk CL9

u can already get a good clutch. any rsx-s (02-04) clutch/flywheel would work. there was a thread about it, u can search for it if u want more info. and yea a turbo tsx would be killer. the comptech has potential of 300whp, a few clubrsx guys have the comptech supercharger pushing 300whp

ClutchPerformer

Not necessarily. The k20 has a lot more revs to work with, and that counts for a lot--especially if you're strapping on a giant turbo.

dzuy

i want hondata already. i will def buy it when it comes out.

no doubt about it

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Same here but I want the K-Pro.

AlterZgo

I don't know why people would think that supercharging is more in line with a refined luxury type of car. Consider that there are many luxury type sport sedans that have turbochargers. For instance, the various twin turbo V12 Mercedes, the last generation Audi A4 and S6 which also had twin turbos, many Volvo T5-R sedans, many luxury cars in Japan such as the Soarer which had a twin turbo Supra engine.

Then, consider what luxury sedans are supercharged... The only one that comes to mind are the supercharged AMG Mercedes and the low end C230 Kompressor - not necessarily Mercedes' most "refined and luxurious" models. Other cars that are supercharged are POS such as the supercharged Thunderbird and Pontiac. While I know this isn't necessarily true, when I hear supercharger, I don't think performance or luxury. I think redneck small block V8 Ford or Chevy.

Again, the bottom line is, a properly sized turbocharger can provide virtually the same smooth, lag free power delivery as a supercharger.

There must be good reasons why practically all auto mfgs choose to offer turbos instead of superchargers when going with forced induction in stock OEM vehicles.

BlackTSXer

^^^ well said

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

While I agree with most of what you said, I'd say there are just as many supercharged applications out there as turbocharged. Jaguar for example has a few supercharged models.

Also, when most people hear turbocharger they don't think Audi or Volvo, they think Honda or Subaru with loud blow-off valves.

A supercharger won't provide the same amount of power than a turbo will (given the same amount of boost) but the power delivery is much smoother. You will have a hard time finding a dyno plot on a turbocharged car that has as smooth of a slope as a supercharged car. With a turbo, even a properly matched turbo (i.e., turbocharged CL) you really feel the boost "kick-in" and the peaks and valleys of the powerband are shown on the dyno. Where as with a roots style supercharger (like the one Comptech makes for the CL/RSX/and soon TSX) it feels as if a larger motor has been swapped in, the boost comes on evenly and consistantly.

NightHawk CL9

i think that the big engines have superchargers for them, look at the mercedes or the svt cobra. a supercharger uses power to make power so these big engines can afford to lose a little. this is not always the case.

and with an efficient turbo there will be no-very little lag. so i cannot wait until either a supercharger (comptech or jackson racing, if they are in fact making one) or turbo (cybernation w/guardian). i think when the dyno sheets come in then we can better see which one will suit the tsx

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

The problem with finding a turbo for this motor is it revs quite high, and to have full boost from <3k rpms and have it not max out before redline would be a challenge. You'd have to sacrifice a little lag for more up top.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

That's the dyno for the RSX charger. I'd expect a similar plot for the TSX except with a lower redline

jonnerd154

Turbos are for luxury cars too, my Dad's Continental GT is twin turbo'd. Wanna talk about a sweet car to drive, that is it. It's just that turbo's are sometimes considered to be an item to install on a civic, and not something that should be on an expencive luxury car. I call BS...power is power, turbo or super.

AlterZgo

Forgot about the Jag. Agree with you with respect to people's impressions. It's really a shame. The car that comes to mind when I think turbo, is the 1976 Porsche 930 with the "turbo" italicized script on the big rear wing. But then, I am 36 yrs old.

No doubt that superchargers have a more linear power delivery. But, this may also be magnified by the fact most people posting dyno charts are tuning for higher hp and boost rather than a more conservative and linear power curve. I'm sure a small, light pressure ball bearing turbo would produce similar power as a supercharger and w/o that strong rush of power at the higher RPM range. But then again, that kind of takes away the fun of driving a turbocharged car.

The only solution... Mugen should come out with a stroker kit! Of course, given Mugen's astronomical prices, it would probably be cheaper to drop a 3.5L RL engine into the TSX.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

No need for a stroker IMO. The TSX already has the best torque out of all the 4-cylinder cars currently available from Honda/Acura.

A TSX making 230whp (my estimate for the Comptech kit @ approx 5psi) will be quite quick for a car this size with a 2.4L 4 cylinder motor. (High 13 second 1/4 mile pass @ 102+ MPH)

The biggest thing holding back this car is the fuel map that was basically copied from the 4 cylinder Accord. You can really open things up with some tuning. Hopefully Hondata or someone else can figure out the DBW throttle system.

jonnerd154

Is that not a given when we get the Comptech SC?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Not sure. No internal ECU mods were needed on the NSX, S2000, CL, or TL kits previously released by Comptech. Only their ESM unit is needed (spliced into the factory harness) to lower the MAP voltage to effectively "hide" the boost from the ECU.

jonnerd154

Right, but they are using a reflash for the RSX's kit. I think the K-series is too damn complex to just modify signals and have everything play nicely and still produce decent gains.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

The kit is nearly finished. Jackson Racing is also working on a kit that is also near completion. Yet, Hondata hasn't released anything as of yet for the TSX. I'm sure Comptech has figured something out.

jonnerd154

ORRR, comptech and hondata are under some kind of contract to release the products together. Also, where did you get the info that the kit is almost done?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

The RSX and TSX kits are VERY similar. Also, the pictures show an installed supercharger, meaning all the fabrication is complete.

jonnerd154

I know that the RSX and TSX kits are very similar, that is why I was arging that the reflash is going to be used on the TSX kit, not Comptech's ESM. You mentioned the ESM.

Fabrication and a complete ready to sell kit are two totally separate things. Next time say that the fabrication of the first kit is complete. There is alot of stuff still left to do after the test application.

Choose a side to argue and stick to it. I personally would love to hear your sources for all of the information you have on this subject including the quarter-mile times and speeds, HP and TQ values. They all sound like BS. IMHO.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Choose a side? What are we arguing?

My horsepower numbers are based upon what the RSX makes with the same blower that will be used on the TSX. The horsepower figure will be similar to the RSX, but probably slightly lower than the RSX due to the lower redline, lower compression ratio, etc, etc. Although it should make up for it in torque.

The quarter mile times are based upon the cars weight vs. the horsepower.

My car weighs a few hundred pounds more than the TSX. With 230 whp I ran 14.1 @ 101 MPH.

The same horsepower in the TSX should run slightly faster.


EDIT: A few people over at clubrsx.com and myself went out last night for a few beers and to watch the game last night at Hooters. A guy there has a TSX and was shipped a few parts from the Jackson Racing TSX supercharger kit.

The design and fabrication of the Comptech kit is complete. That is the largest part of the development. The kit should be released this Spring according to my Service advisor who recently spoke with Nate @ Comptech regarding a problem I was having with my blower's belt tensioner. I was sitting at his desk while he was on the phone with Comptech, I heard him ask about the TSX kit. 'Nuff said?

jonnerd154

I'll take that. Now I will sit patiently and buy one of the kits the day I can see the results on both kits.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

FYI: The Jackson racing kit is much more far off than the Comptech kit. Parts that were sent to the TSX owner were WAY off.

jonnerd154

That's disappointing....then maybe I will just be impatient and get the Comptech kit.

JDMCL9T

So what makes you think that a built K24 can't rev as much as a K20? And speaking of Giant Turbos, 2.4 vs. 2.0 which one do you think can spin that giant turbo better...

Dan Martin

The K24 is essentially a stroked version of the K20 so the piston speeds are much higher at equal RPM on the K24. Revving a K24 to 8000 is like revving a K20 to 9000.

ClutchPerformer

Dan beat me to it:
Edit: Just did the math...

Actually, revving the k24 to 8000 RPM is like revving the k20 to 9600 RPM. Get the picture?

ClutchPerformer

Just did the math...

Actually, revving the k24 to 8000 RPM is like revving the k20 to 9600 RPM.