Comptech Dyno's Finally Up!!!
11-13-2003, 10:22 AM
#43
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Age: 49
Posts: 7,594
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
Although I completely agree with sauceman and will also be looking into a LFW upgrade, there is one side effect of a LFW. If you let off the gas, you don't have the inertia of the heavy FW to make deceleration more consistent, meaning, without the inertia a LFW will make deceleration quicker... alot quicker in the case of the TSX IMO.
Personally I like this, but for some people who have to fight traffic, it means letting off the gas slower so that deceleration isn't so prominent and abrupt.
Personally I like this, but for some people who have to fight traffic, it means letting off the gas slower so that deceleration isn't so prominent and abrupt.
11-13-2003, 10:29 AM
#44
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by moda_way
Although I completely agree with sauceman and will also be looking into a LFW upgrade, there is one side effect of a LFW. If you let off the gas, you don't have the inertia of the heavy FW to make deceleration more consistent, meaning, without the inertia a LFW will make deceleration quicker... alot quicker in the case of the TSX IMO.
Personally I like this, but for some people who have to fight traffic, it means letting off the gas slower so that deceleration isn't so prominent and abrupt.
Although I completely agree with sauceman and will also be looking into a LFW upgrade, there is one side effect of a LFW. If you let off the gas, you don't have the inertia of the heavy FW to make deceleration more consistent, meaning, without the inertia a LFW will make deceleration quicker... alot quicker in the case of the TSX IMO.
Personally I like this, but for some people who have to fight traffic, it means letting off the gas slower so that deceleration isn't so prominent and abrupt.
11-13-2003, 10:56 AM
#45
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Yep, and I like it because I use decompression a lot, so it's an improvement for me. I don't use it in 1st gear though, it is rough, I just clutch in immediately and pull out of 1st.
11-13-2003, 11:21 AM
#46
Intermediate
Join Date: Sep 2003
Age: 49
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
speaking of using compression to slow you down... I have always done so with my older manual transmissions and such.. always figured it help save the brakes and such.. but I read some where that it can hurt the engine? Is this true? Now with my auto TSX I still use the sport shifter to shift down and slow down... am I going to be doing long term damage?
Also, using this method to slow down... is it a mixture of engine compression and gears slowing the car down or just the engine compression... I always thought it was the gears slowing me down... hmmmm
Sorry if I shouldn't be asking this here....
Also, using this method to slow down... is it a mixture of engine compression and gears slowing the car down or just the engine compression... I always thought it was the gears slowing me down... hmmmm
Sorry if I shouldn't be asking this here....
11-13-2003, 11:35 AM
#47
Senior Moderator
Its the engine compression that provide the force to slow you down (hence the term "engine braking"), but of course the gears are a factor in that equation.
As for engine braking in a 5AT to slow down, as far as I know thats just not possible. Even in sportshift mode, when you let off the gas your engine is"disconnected" (rpms drop, etc). Remember, its still an automatic and thus that connection in the drivetrain is just not there.
I don't have a 5AT so if I am wrong about this someone please correct me.
As for engine braking in a 5AT to slow down, as far as I know thats just not possible. Even in sportshift mode, when you let off the gas your engine is"disconnected" (rpms drop, etc). Remember, its still an automatic and thus that connection in the drivetrain is just not there.
I don't have a 5AT so if I am wrong about this someone please correct me.
11-13-2003, 11:39 AM
#48
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,737
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hmmm... i've heard the opposite with LFW and stalling a car... due to it's low weight, you have to really rev the engine and then engage the clutch... with a normal FW you can start off at much lower RPM because there is more mass.
Take an F1 car... the FW are tiny and require a lot of revs in order to not stall the car.
Take an F1 car... the FW are tiny and require a lot of revs in order to not stall the car.
11-13-2003, 11:43 AM
#49
Audi Driving Snob
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you can engine break in the 5at. The torque converter remains locked when you have your foot off the gas. In some instances, such as WOT, it unlocks to allow some slight torque amplification. I'm sure it's not nearly as abrubt as the MT since the gearing is so much taller(lower rpms in most cases) but you can definitely do it..and I do.
11-13-2003, 11:46 AM
#50
Intermediate
Join Date: Sep 2003
Age: 49
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fdl... thanks for the reply... as far as I can tell, the 5AT, when I down shift in the sport shift mode it feels the same way as my old manuals did.... the rpms actually go up at first and then start to go down as the car slows down... but I may not be understanding what you were speaking of...
11-13-2003, 11:53 AM
#51
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by DEVO
hmmm... i've heard the opposite with LFW and stalling a car... due to it's low weight, you have to really rev the engine and then engage the clutch... with a normal FW you can start off at much lower RPM because there is more mass.
Take an F1 car... the FW are tiny and require a lot of revs in order to not stall the car.
hmmm... i've heard the opposite with LFW and stalling a car... due to it's low weight, you have to really rev the engine and then engage the clutch... with a normal FW you can start off at much lower RPM because there is more mass.
Take an F1 car... the FW are tiny and require a lot of revs in order to not stall the car.
Having to rev the hell out of the engine to launch can sometimes be because of the clutch. Those super strong race clutches for example require alot more revs to get going (but when they hook up, they really hook up!)
11-13-2003, 11:57 AM
#52
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by TinkySD
you can engine break in the 5at. The torque converter remains locked when you have your foot off the gas. In some instances, such as WOT, it unlocks to allow some slight torque amplification. I'm sure it's not nearly as abrubt as the MT since the gearing is so much taller(lower rpms in most cases) but you can definitely do it..and I do.
you can engine break in the 5at. The torque converter remains locked when you have your foot off the gas. In some instances, such as WOT, it unlocks to allow some slight torque amplification. I'm sure it's not nearly as abrubt as the MT since the gearing is so much taller(lower rpms in most cases) but you can definitely do it..and I do.
11-13-2003, 12:31 PM
#54
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally posted by DEVO
hmmm... i've heard the opposite with LFW and stalling a car... due to it's low weight, you have to really rev the engine and then engage the clutch... with a normal FW you can start off at much lower RPM because there is more mass.
Take an F1 car... the FW are tiny and require a lot of revs in order to not stall the car.
hmmm... i've heard the opposite with LFW and stalling a car... due to it's low weight, you have to really rev the engine and then engage the clutch... with a normal FW you can start off at much lower RPM because there is more mass.
Take an F1 car... the FW are tiny and require a lot of revs in order to not stall the car.
I can tell you by experience that an LFW makes the car less easy to stall. One of the reasons is that if you feel you are gonna stall, on a normal Honda, it is already too late. When you have a flywheel, since less inertia is present, one single ignition is enough to keep the engine from stalling at 150rpm (tried it) and get it back to idle.
When I got in the TSX, I had seriously had a hard time adapting back to how much a staller Hondas were with heavy flywheels.
11-13-2003, 12:56 PM
#55
Kickstand
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Bham, Al
Age: 44
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the only thing thats really going to make a differance with this car is weight reduction. If you can shed about 200lbs or so off your TSX you will feel a nice differance.
11-13-2003, 01:08 PM
#56
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by Jab31169
the only thing thats really going to make a differance with this car is weight reduction. If you can shed about 200lbs or so off your TSX you will feel a nice differance.
the only thing thats really going to make a differance with this car is weight reduction. If you can shed about 200lbs or so off your TSX you will feel a nice differance.
11-13-2003, 01:53 PM
#57
Audi Driving Snob
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's not exactly true either fdl What weight does is give you a better torque/weight ratio at every point in the rpm band. With the mods for the tsx all you get is post vtec torque which only effects that narrow part of the curve. So what your saying is correct but it would probably take an extra 40 top end horses to compare to the gains you can see by shedding 200lbs.
BTW back to my old obsession: light weight wheels/tires. According ot the analysis i've done it will make way more different switching to some 16lb wheels and 22 lb tires than by getting the full comptech tune.
What weight does is give you a better torque/weight ratio at every point in the rpm band. With the mods for the tsx all you get is post vtec torque which only effects that narrow part of the curve. So what your saying is correct but it would probably take an extra 40 top end horses to compare to the gains you can see by shedding 200lbs.BTW back to my old obsession: light weight wheels/tires. According ot the analysis i've done it will make way more different switching to some 16lb wheels and 22 lb tires than by getting the full comptech tune.
11-13-2003, 02:04 PM
#58
Senior Moderator
Ya, realistically in every day driving weight reduction will be better than an increase in peak hp. But ultimately in all out accel (When you stay in the meat of the hp/torque band) both weigt reduction or hp increase will basically yeild the same result.
EDIT: and yes wheel weight is a different issue.
EDIT: and yes wheel weight is a different issue.
11-13-2003, 02:09 PM
#59
does lighter wheel easier to damage?
my wife is pregnanted and i am thinink of swap 16" wheels with "higher" profile tires to suck up the bump on the road. don't know it will work or worse
my wife is pregnanted and i am thinink of swap 16" wheels with "higher" profile tires to suck up the bump on the road. don't know it will work or worse
11-13-2003, 03:08 PM
#61
Kickstand
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Bham, Al
Age: 44
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by fdl
Thats not really true. At the end of the day you want a better hp:weight ratio and we can do that by lowering weight OR raising horsepower. Both will have the same affect in acceleration (although the weight reductions may help in handling as well).
Thats not really true. At the end of the day you want a better hp:weight ratio and we can do that by lowering weight OR raising horsepower. Both will have the same affect in acceleration (although the weight reductions may help in handling as well).
11-13-2003, 03:56 PM
#62
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by Jab31169
What I ment by my statment is the fact that it is going to be hard to squeeze alot of HP out of this car without going the supercharged or turbo route. Now if you did do the I/H/E and somehow magicaly shed 200lbs the car would feel very peppy. But as for now...spending $1400 to get 15HP at the wheels is very weak and pointless.
What I ment by my statment is the fact that it is going to be hard to squeeze alot of HP out of this car without going the supercharged or turbo route. Now if you did do the I/H/E and somehow magicaly shed 200lbs the car would feel very peppy. But as for now...spending $1400 to get 15HP at the wheels is very weak and pointless.
11-13-2003, 04:18 PM
#64
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by TinkySD
That's not exactly true either fdl What weight does is give you a better torque/weight ratio at every point in the rpm band. With the mods for the tsx all you get is post vtec torque which only effects that narrow part of the curve. So what your saying is correct but it would probably take an extra 40 top end horses to compare to the gains you can see by shedding 200lbs.
BTW back to my old obsession: light weight wheels/tires. According ot the analysis i've done it will make way more different switching to some 16lb wheels and 22 lb tires than by getting the full comptech tune.
That's not exactly true either fdl
What weight does is give you a better torque/weight ratio at every point in the rpm band. With the mods for the tsx all you get is post vtec torque which only effects that narrow part of the curve. So what your saying is correct but it would probably take an extra 40 top end horses to compare to the gains you can see by shedding 200lbs.BTW back to my old obsession: light weight wheels/tires. According ot the analysis i've done it will make way more different switching to some 16lb wheels and 22 lb tires than by getting the full comptech tune.
11-13-2003, 04:44 PM
#65
Audi Driving Snob
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually I mainly just like tech discussion. To be honest speed isn't the biggest factor for me or I would have gotten an auto v6 or something. That being said I think getting some new wheels and tires is a way to really give your car some more go and better handling for a reasonable price. Along with not having to deal with any warranty issues. REally the reasons are as follows:
1) i suck at driving stick
2) for 5 years i drove through 1hour + traffic home from school/work. Commute is good now but it really soured me on everything.
To be honest speed isn't the biggest factor for me or I would have gotten an auto v6 or something. That being said I think getting some new wheels and tires is a way to really give your car some more go and better handling for a reasonable price. Along with not having to deal with any warranty issues. REally the reasons are as follows:1) i suck at driving stick
2) for 5 years i drove through 1hour + traffic home from school/work. Commute is good now but it really soured me on everything.
11-13-2003, 07:17 PM
#66
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
I just want to add a final comment on the Comptech dynos and for those who are deceived by the results. Read this comment I made on the thread about sacrificing handling for power:
Originally posted by sauceman
I would like to say Amen to what Dan just wrote.
I would also like to add to Domn, and others who wished to see 220-240hp in the K24A2 or any other version of the K24, most likely it would not happen.
There is a major obstacle for this: Long stroke. In any engine, 99mm of stroke is a hell of a long stroke to play with, and this is what cripples the K24 at high RPMs. I don't believe that unless using a forged crank (which may be already used in the K24A2), and serious racing parts that Honda will risk inducing higher revs on that engine while retaining durability.
A certain amount of things could be done, but at other expenses:
1. Achieving 220hp on the K24A2 is possible, but that would mean, with a stock bottom the max power would be situated between 7300-7500 rpms, depending on the extra lbs-ft more agressive cams, ECU mapping and free-flowing intake/exhaust would liberate. It would most certainly mean a significant loss of driveability in the lower revs. Usually more agressive cams make less low end power. Same with exhausts.
Also consider this: If the maximum power was to be situated at 7300rpm, with the cutoff at 7400, this would mean that max torque would be somewhere between 5700 and 6200rpm, meaning that every shift would drop you below the powerband. There is a remedy to this, and it is called shorter gears. But it would make the TSX less of a highway cruiser.
2. Say Honda does create a K24B with a more agressive cam, a more agressive fuel map, exhaust/intake, and other subtleties, this will mean the TSX will no longer be a LEV2 compliant car.
And though most of us are not at all concerned by environment with our cars, It is one of the 2 top priorities at Honda. This is where I can very well imagine the truth in what the Honda engineer says. From an engineering standpoint, creating an engine with such high rpms, with good hp and tq figures for a four, and still having it meet up with strict LEV2 emissions standards is a feat in itself. It is even more a feat when you consider that this same engine can achieve over 36mpg.
3. You can get to 240hp easily, and this is by going the FI way. No way, not gonna happen at Honda. And even if it did, then again, the K24T would not be close to dreaming of being LEV2 compliant.
4. Honda could use 11.5:1 pistons, which would virtually be at the limit of what NA could handle with the quality of gas we have here, and we would be approaching 212-215hp. This would not be impossible, but would be a downside in that we would no longer be able to fill up on the occasion with 87. It would have to be a minimum of 93, and even then, in places like Texas, it could get risky.
5. This, to me is probably the most viable way of getting the TSX up to 230-240 hp, and not impossible the way I see it: Using a K22. Destroke the engine to 93mm, and with the same technology, you have a platform for creating a 8300-8500rpm screamer. Torque, under similar specs as the K24A2, or even with higher 11.5:1 pistons would be perched at around 160lb-ft at 5500rpm to 164lb-ft at 6200rpm, with a top hp figure of around 230hp at 7800rpm or 240hp at 8100 rpm. With the actual gearing, it could be a possibility. Could they make it LEV2 compliant? I don't know. One thing I know for sure, there would be some loss of driveability, but the pleasure factor would be absolutely way up there just the sheer fun of screaming all the way to 8500.
Will it happen? honestly I don't know. TSX was originally marketed for the mid-aged man who clings to sport cars. But this type of furious TSX would be adressed to people in their mid 20's but certainly with a price tag more in the mid 30K's US.
My
I would like to say Amen to what Dan just wrote.
I would also like to add to Domn, and others who wished to see 220-240hp in the K24A2 or any other version of the K24, most likely it would not happen.
There is a major obstacle for this: Long stroke. In any engine, 99mm of stroke is a hell of a long stroke to play with, and this is what cripples the K24 at high RPMs. I don't believe that unless using a forged crank (which may be already used in the K24A2), and serious racing parts that Honda will risk inducing higher revs on that engine while retaining durability.
A certain amount of things could be done, but at other expenses:
1. Achieving 220hp on the K24A2 is possible, but that would mean, with a stock bottom the max power would be situated between 7300-7500 rpms, depending on the extra lbs-ft more agressive cams, ECU mapping and free-flowing intake/exhaust would liberate. It would most certainly mean a significant loss of driveability in the lower revs. Usually more agressive cams make less low end power. Same with exhausts.
Also consider this: If the maximum power was to be situated at 7300rpm, with the cutoff at 7400, this would mean that max torque would be somewhere between 5700 and 6200rpm, meaning that every shift would drop you below the powerband. There is a remedy to this, and it is called shorter gears. But it would make the TSX less of a highway cruiser.
2. Say Honda does create a K24B with a more agressive cam, a more agressive fuel map, exhaust/intake, and other subtleties, this will mean the TSX will no longer be a LEV2 compliant car.
And though most of us are not at all concerned by environment with our cars, It is one of the 2 top priorities at Honda. This is where I can very well imagine the truth in what the Honda engineer says. From an engineering standpoint, creating an engine with such high rpms, with good hp and tq figures for a four, and still having it meet up with strict LEV2 emissions standards is a feat in itself. It is even more a feat when you consider that this same engine can achieve over 36mpg.
3. You can get to 240hp easily, and this is by going the FI way. No way, not gonna happen at Honda. And even if it did, then again, the K24T would not be close to dreaming of being LEV2 compliant.
4. Honda could use 11.5:1 pistons, which would virtually be at the limit of what NA could handle with the quality of gas we have here, and we would be approaching 212-215hp. This would not be impossible, but would be a downside in that we would no longer be able to fill up on the occasion with 87. It would have to be a minimum of 93, and even then, in places like Texas, it could get risky.
5. This, to me is probably the most viable way of getting the TSX up to 230-240 hp, and not impossible the way I see it: Using a K22. Destroke the engine to 93mm, and with the same technology, you have a platform for creating a 8300-8500rpm screamer. Torque, under similar specs as the K24A2, or even with higher 11.5:1 pistons would be perched at around 160lb-ft at 5500rpm to 164lb-ft at 6200rpm, with a top hp figure of around 230hp at 7800rpm or 240hp at 8100 rpm. With the actual gearing, it could be a possibility. Could they make it LEV2 compliant? I don't know. One thing I know for sure, there would be some loss of driveability, but the pleasure factor would be absolutely way up there just the sheer fun of screaming all the way to 8500.
Will it happen? honestly I don't know. TSX was originally marketed for the mid-aged man who clings to sport cars. But this type of furious TSX would be adressed to people in their mid 20's but certainly with a price tag more in the mid 30K's US.
My
11-14-2003, 01:32 AM
#67
Pro
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Age: 40
Posts: 688
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
okay guys this dyno thing is going a little bit too far.
Sometimes dyno graphs aren't everything, sometimes they have already been "set up".
You see i know A LOT of company who tried to make their dynos show, because nowadays people just acting smart and pretend that they know everything!!! i mean at this moment a lot of people's response will be sth like "ok then i'll wait for the dyno graphs first before making any decissions". By just saying the work dyno it all of the sudden makes us look more as a racer!
Anyway i'm not trying to getting flame here.
So the companies that are making a go fast part will DO ANYTHING to make their parts sell.
For example, when you look at the dyno does it say anything about the ambient temp? altitute? fan speed? true air temp?
I saw a lot of companies who will do whatever to make the base line as low as they can but still reasonable. THEN they will force more air by putting more fans in front of the car. even more put an ice pack in front of the bumper. EVERYTHING that make gains look good.
i'm not saying that Injen is lying or anything maybe it is better than comptech. who knows?
As for the low gains on comptech I/H/E that's because maybe this car is already fine tuned. I'm talking about exhaust and intake system. You may not know this by a dyno graph from Fujisubo said that their exhaust is pushing out merely 5 horsepower at the wheel!!! i'm not lying. if you want proof just let me know i can post it up or give the link to you.
Aren't you guys happy that engineers already put more time on TSX?
To me i'm happy with all the gains on comptech and Injen it's only that Comptech is a little pricey that's all (i mean for that price)
If you want more power then do a head swap with a TODA camshafts and remapped ECU. i garantee that you'll get more than 250 at the wheels.
All of saying is just don't trust what dyno said too much. Dynos aren't everything!
Sometimes dyno graphs aren't everything, sometimes they have already been "set up".
You see i know A LOT of company who tried to make their dynos show, because nowadays people just acting smart and pretend that they know everything!!! i mean at this moment a lot of people's response will be sth like "ok then i'll wait for the dyno graphs first before making any decissions". By just saying the work dyno it all of the sudden makes us look more as a racer!
Anyway i'm not trying to getting flame here.
So the companies that are making a go fast part will DO ANYTHING to make their parts sell.
For example, when you look at the dyno does it say anything about the ambient temp? altitute? fan speed? true air temp?
I saw a lot of companies who will do whatever to make the base line as low as they can but still reasonable. THEN they will force more air by putting more fans in front of the car. even more put an ice pack in front of the bumper. EVERYTHING that make gains look good.
i'm not saying that Injen is lying or anything maybe it is better than comptech. who knows?
As for the low gains on comptech I/H/E that's because maybe this car is already fine tuned. I'm talking about exhaust and intake system. You may not know this by a dyno graph from Fujisubo said that their exhaust is pushing out merely 5 horsepower at the wheel!!! i'm not lying. if you want proof just let me know i can post it up or give the link to you.
Aren't you guys happy that engineers already put more time on TSX?
To me i'm happy with all the gains on comptech and Injen it's only that Comptech is a little pricey that's all (i mean for that price)
If you want more power then do a head swap with a TODA camshafts and remapped ECU. i garantee that you'll get more than 250 at the wheels.
All of saying is just don't trust what dyno said too much. Dynos aren't everything!
11-14-2003, 09:56 PM
#69
Instructor
Join Date: Sep 2003
Age: 66
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi all, first post here.
I'm not experienced with correlation of dino to
real life subjective experience. many probably know better
what to expect.
I once modified a 90 hp motor. Went through three after
mkt cams to find the one that worked for me. It was really
sweet.
Then I installed a header. I can't say is was top quality.
I can't say it put more power to the road, but I loved it.
What it did was smoothed out the RPM range with a little
more lower end torque. and a nice sound.
What I see in the comptech header is more low end torque
is a plus. I think it is worth it.
I would pay for just the header and wait for a cheaper
exhaust. All I want for my TSX exhaust is the G35 coupe sound
anyway.
Does anyone have experience with comptech equipment
in the market place, will
there be cheaper knock-offs, will comptech lower price?
Tim
I'm not experienced with correlation of dino to
real life subjective experience. many probably know better
what to expect.
I once modified a 90 hp motor. Went through three after
mkt cams to find the one that worked for me. It was really
sweet.
Then I installed a header. I can't say is was top quality.
I can't say it put more power to the road, but I loved it.
What it did was smoothed out the RPM range with a little
more lower end torque. and a nice sound.
What I see in the comptech header is more low end torque
is a plus. I think it is worth it.
I would pay for just the header and wait for a cheaper
exhaust. All I want for my TSX exhaust is the G35 coupe sound
anyway.
Does anyone have experience with comptech equipment
in the market place, will
there be cheaper knock-offs, will comptech lower price?
Tim
12-17-2003, 01:52 AM
#71
4dr & I like it that way
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Diego
Age: 40
Posts: 1,612
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TSXTim - comptech will most likely NOT lower your price, your best shot is to find a reseller who has good prices. there will probably be cheap knockoffs, but they will be just that: cheap knockoffs. for the v6 j-series engines, comptech headers provided significant gains, but they cost $1200 or something. OBX made knockoffs of the comptechs, same gains, and only cost $300-400, however the quality was much much worse and several people reported problems of crappy welds and odd vibrations/resonance.
04-28-2004, 10:06 PM
#73
ATCer
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 49
Posts: 3,146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Check their website, I think it's on there. www.comptechusa.com
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
