TodaSi

I know the rage is to install LED's in place of standard bulbs, but is it a smart thing to do in all situations?
Point being, I was driving during a winter storm warning where there was 8-12 inches of blowing snow and the temp was around 8 degrees F. Anyway, the back of my Acura was just caked with snow except for two round spots on the tail lights. The heat of the lights kept the light exposed therefore people driving behind me could see my car. I wonder if I had LED's if they would produce enough heat to have cleared off the tail light and be seen from behind? I couldn't even imagine if my tail lights didn't clear off the bulb area..then no one would be able to see me in "white-out" conditions.

As a side note, I am amazed each time I drive my TSX, it handles the winters sooo well (with snow tires of course). It's steady, straight and true and VSA is a good friend Just need a better battery

Reach

Good to hear some REAL reports of solid handling from a place like MI! The weather channel makes me feel bad for you.

LEDs in the exterior lights is an entirely cosmetic mod. I have yet to see a set which puts out as much light as filament bulbs. I agree with you on the safety aspect. I will not be doing that conversion simply because I do not want decreased light output, not even taking into account heavy, rapid snowfall. That alone is a bigger safety risk IMO.

Before I sound too two-faced, I have recently replaced my front turn signal LEDs back with filament bulbs. I did it in the first place to keep the clear look of the jdm heads, but a better way is to find 'chrome' style amber bulbs. Got the idea from a bimmer forum of all places.

I do intend to install interior LEDs one day, which are just for show.

L1StarTSX

Bimmer forums have some great ideas... I still find myself going there, even though Im no longer an owner, habits die hard.

cibs

Just drove through a big ass white-out up here on Saturday night, middle of the night and in addition to being super pleased with the handling the TSX provides (also with snow tires and VSA), the heat from the taillights does keep them clear while the whole ass end of the car is covered in snow... same with the front, the headlights and my fogs were pretty much the only part that were clear on the front of the car too...

definitely wouldn't change them out to LEDs, unless it came like that from the factory, IMO it's not worth the hassle...

and yeah the battery is terrible especially in these really really cold temps we've had latley...

DLTSX6MT

I've seen plenty of cars with OEM LED taillights (TL, G35, etc) with no taillight illumination whatsoever for the exact same reason you describe during a snowfall. I'm waiting to hear about some class action lawsuit to happen when people start figuring out that cars with LED taillights are getting rear ended during snowfalls.

junktionfet

Sounds like it might be time for some European style rear fog lamps Incandescent of course.

RGlesing

[QUOTE=TodaSi]I know the rage is to install LED's in place of standard bulbs, but is it a smart thing to do in all situations?
Point being, I was driving during a winter storm warning where there was 8-12 inches of blowing snow and the temp was around 8 degrees F. Anyway, the back of my Acura was just caked with snow except for two round spots on the tail lights. The heat of the lights kept the light exposed therefore people driving behind me could see my car. I wonder if I had LED's if they would produce enough heat to have cleared off the tail light and be seen from behind? I couldn't even imagine if my tail lights didn't clear off the bulb area..then no one would be able to see me in "white-out" conditions.

You are correct to be concerned about LED's. They are very efficient, using only about 1/6 to 1/10 of the power of an incandescent lamp. Why? Because they produce very little heat (which is wasted energy in incandescent bulbs, in most applications.) I work for the Indiana Dept. of Transportation and we have found the same downside to LED's vs. incandescent bulbs in traffic signals. We love that huge energy savings, but when a strong wind blows snow into the the traffic signal faces they just stay covered (the bulbs used to keep them somewhat free of packed snow.) Oh well! Such is progress.

Street Spirit

That would be one of the most ridiculous lawsuits ever! Tail lights serve a simple purpose: To illuminate when your full lighting system is on, and to light up when braking. As long as they do that, they are doing their job.

Nowhere in any literature do car manufacturers state that tail lights are supposed to heat up to the point of defrosting rain or snow in bad weather. Why would you expect them to serve this purpose, LED or not? It's the driver's job to clear the car (including lights) and make sure it is visible to others.

DLTSX6MT

Sure, but aren't most lawsuits pretty ridiculous to begin with? Especially of the class action variety? McDonald's doesn't have to state that their coffee can burn your throat if you drink it too fast and too soon - and yet they still got taken to town when somebody got some death java on their lap. I'm not saying I endorse such a lawsuit, or think it's at least a little frivilous...I'm just saying it's bound to happen.

DLTSX6MT

(stupid forum won't let you edit a post after a couple of minutes have passed )

But to your point about it being the driver's responsibility...that's absolutely true. It drives me nuts to see people who just clear a little slit on their front window, and don't bother with all the other windows and lights. On the other hand, in certain conditions, snow sticks to LED taillight lenses as the car is driving along. You can't expect drivers to pull over and clean off their taillights every couple of minutes. For this fact, I actually think such a lawsuit might have some ground to stand on.

TodaSi

This exact situation is what I'm speaking to....I would have to pull over, in white-out conditions, every 5 miles so the back of my car was visible from behind. The snow sticks well to the back of our TSX's, even well waxed TSX's

I don't think there should be a lawsuit, but manufactures should bear in mind the potential danger LED's may cause in certain situations.

Street Spirit

LEDs light up faster (eg: when braking) than conventional bulbs, can be brighter depending on their design and placement, and last many (read: hundreds) times longer than filament bulbs. They serve a much greater purpose than to just 'look' different.

DLTSX6MT

Yes, LEDs do reach full illumination faster, but do you really think that the 0.01 (or whatever) seconds that LEDs light up faster makes a difference in the actual reaction time of people's braking? Yes, I know the mantra... a car travels 9 feet in 0.01 second, etc. But that assumes that the car unconditionally begins decelerating the very instant that brake lights appear. Do you decide to hit the brake the very instant that you see brake lights light up in front of you, or is it actually situation dependent ans so not until after you think you've reached a certain distance/rate from the car in front of you? If the latter is the case, that 0.01 seconds doesn't make any difference. If it's the former, and you panic brake to moment you so much as see brake lights, I sure wouldn't want to be behind you. (I'm not flaming here... "you" is hypothetical, of course!)

And in the case of replacing OEM incandescent bulbs with aftermarket LED bulbs, the lifetime and replacement benefit is practically moot, IMO. How many taillights should you expect to change over the lifetime of a car? Three at most, probably two or one, maybe even none. By going to all the effort of switching your four or six or however many taillights (nevermind flashers, with load resisters and all that other assorted stuff) you'll spend more effort switching to LEDs than if you'd just stuck to incandescents in the first place. Plus, while OEM LEDs may have long lifespan, we've all seen aftermarket LED bulbs bought by regular Joe's like us that tend to be rather problematic, so you're wasting even more time replacing those (over and over again, no less).

As for safety…they’re generally more dim (if aftermarket), don't reflect off the reflectors properly, have a narrow field of view (even OEM), and have none of the "defrosting" capability that the OP brought up. The only safety benefit of any worth I see with LED is that they draw more attention with the instant on look, thus perhaps giving more of a sense of urgency, especially for turn signals.

Street Spirit

I just find it funny that people actually expect their tail lights to "defrost" mounting snow and get upset when it doesn't.

Change the condition a bit and compare it this way: Would you be upset if your tail lights weren't as visible if you drove through mud or they were covered in winter salt?! Why would you expect them to stay completely visible in any other condition (in this case, snow)?

Their job is simply to light up...IMO, if they do that, you can't really complain....that's all they're meant to do.

DLTSX6MT

...which incandescents do just fine, without all the hassle of spending big bucks and effort to swap to aftermarket LEDs and resistors, and replacement when the aftermarket LEDs don't perform as expected, or eventually fail. So, what, then is the purpose of LED tails, especially aftermarket LEDs?? They're for , and that's about it - don't sugar coat it with any other pretense. Hey, I like the way they look too, and I sometimes wish that my upmarket car had them standard. But they are what they are, and nothing more, no matter what the marketing tries to make you believe. As the OP said...they are all the rage...really nothing more. LED tails are the like blue tinted headlights. People who want things will believe what they’re told/sold are advantages - they will believe what they hear, and will believe what they think they see.

CCColtsicehockey

maybe people should just scrape off there taillights before they start driving.

Street Spirit

Unheard of!

Street Spirit

Yeah, there are many reasons behind all the mods people do to their cars. It's personal preference, not my money....who am I to say?! Just realize how out-there it sounds when people suggest it would be the LED's fault that the tail lights aren't as visible when it snows. Perhaps sue Mother Nature as well......for snowing?





:surrender

DLTSX6MT

Surely the lawyers would, if they could find a way.

CCColtsicehockey

with the amount of snow i see people driving around with on there cars I am starting to believe no one cleans the snow off there car before driving.