http://www.forbes.com/vehicles/2004/..._0223feat.html

Any thoughts?

 

Honda Motor Co is best known for doing more with less...it's about value...to me thats the complete opposite of what the luxury market is all about. The luxury market is all about status and class...value and luxury used in the same sentence is almost oxymonic.

They need to leave Honda for the masses and move Acura upscale. They need to create a buying environment totally different than Honda...following in Lexus footprints in dealer service may not be a bad thing.

Products should be more diverse...

Drop the RSX.

Offer more variants of the TSX and TL.

Bring in a high line coupe and roadster.

Offer another model on top of the RL.

Offer more upscale SUVs.

 

i agree w/ justinjsw. tooo many acura and honda models are similar. imo the tsx should be a v6/i6 rwd w/ all the options costing around 30-32k. the tl should be aimed at the the gs/5 series.
the rl at the ls/ s class.

their line-ups should be something like this
Honda's Line up
Accord V6
Accord I4 (w/ the current I4 tsx engine)
Civic w/ the base Rsx engine
Civic Type S or R w/ the RSX engine
Rsx with the S2000 engine (or maybe no RSX type cars. seems like the rsx and celica type cars arent selling to well these days.)

Acura's Line-up
S2000 I6/rwd
TSX same I6 as the s2000 and rwd
TL AWD or RWD w/ option of V6 or V8
RL V8 Awd or rwd
MDX
Another SUV
Nsx

 

I find that there is much truth to the article. Acura definitely needs to up the ante with dealer experience. They pale in comparison to the Lexus and BMW dealerships I visited while I was shopping. Even my old Honda dealer offered better service both during and after sales (had I known I could've gotten my TSX through my old salesguy I would've).

They need to up the ante in the product department as well and set their offerings apart from the mass-market Hondas. More offerings will help but it's not the right answer if for instance they introduce a S2000 clone and the only thing really different is the symbol. More features need to be exclusive to the Acura line. Being more bullish with their marketing would help too.

 

The article is true and really well written but I swear this is a lil old. Every other month someone is writing a "what's wrong or how to fix Acura" story.

I found this very interesting.

 

I always thought there were more Lexus dealerships than Acura. Rockford used to be the second largest city in Illinios and all we have is a Lexus dealership (no Acura or Infiniti). So everywhere I look, there's a Lexus. Most people here that I've talked to would've considered an Acura, but don't want to drive at least an hour away to the closest dealership to get thier car serviced. Maybe Acura needs to scatter their dealerships a little better

 

I guess Honda doesn't want to spend a bunch of money on cars they can only market in two countries.

 

I think the article hits the nail on the head.
Although it discounts the fact that Nissan had to team up with Renault to get its improved rate of sells while Honda remains an independent company.

Honda simply has to find a way for Acura to play with the other upscale brands. We can all see where there's potential for the brand to grow.

 

I kind of like it the way it is. I think they should just improve execution of this segment. If they went the tuan is suggesting, it's direct competition for Lexus. While this may be a way to get more money, if I were looking for a lexus I would have bought one.

This is a good segment Acura has; fuel efficient, high-tech, refined where it counts. Potentially very efficient, and if they could just do better in their marketing, service, and quality, I'd be happier.

I think they should drop the EL though, it really is a civic.

 

This is a great post

That statement that Sick pointed out is very telling.

Acura should just try to rip off Lexus altogether and try to improve on what they've done - obviously they've 'done it right.'

For my own dealer experience - the dealer I actually bought from treated me like someone buying a luxury car, perhaps because they also sold BMWs (which I drove) and Porsches. The other dealer treated me like I was buying a Honda or VW - nothing special. Certainly no standardization between the Acura dealers of the US exists.

 

personally, I kinda like Acura "being under the radar" while still producing award winning vehicles that perform well, look decent (subject to opinion), and retain their value. Plus, not seeing Acura badges at every stop light adds a bit of uniqueness.

I think Acura has a good niche and does not need to spoil it in attempting to keep the mass market "happy." Simplicity is not always a bad thing, (not having 4 suv's, three different models of the TSX, etc). If profits and sales are up, awards/accolades are still coming, and reliability and performance are on par or above, who cares if Lexus sales more cars? Is that an accurate gauge of being successful, who sales the most?

I have gotten so many compliments on my TSX, and those who appreiciate and notice nice cars are somewhat baffled at it, eg: " a 4 cyc with 200hp?" "I have never seen one of these on the road," "six speeds??" "What is that model again?" I like being under the radar.

 

Great post justinjsw.

I think Acura's line up is pretty decent, but they need more in their offerings. Also, they really need to improve customer service/maintenence at dealers. I don't understand why two weeks ago when I took my TSX in to fix the knocking noise I didn't get a loaner car. Instead they made me use their courtesy shuttle and kepted my car for 8 days. The only dealer that I had great service from was Continental Acura in Naperville, but here its terrible!

Acura Canada should get rid of the EL. I don't really think they need it anymore considering that the 1.6EL originally replaced the Integra sedan, but since the TSX is out and is sometimes considered the precursor tot he Integra sedan there seems to be no need for the EL in the line up. I dunno.

 

My $0.02:

IMHO, the article is pretty much on target. Acura needs to drop the low end of its product (i.e., RSX, EL (canada)), and add a 'super-sport' sedan for image sake (the RL is certainly not in that league). And they already have the NSX as the super coupe. I don't think that they need a whole laundry list of SUVs - although they cetainly shoudl add a CRV-based lux SUV (but make it a V6) .

 

I would disagree about the buying experience, maybe I had a really good salesman, and everybody was great about getting me the car in the color i wanted, a lease payment I was looking for etc etc..

I got follow up calls from both the dealership and honda corporate within days of picking up my car.. I got a nice packet in the mail saturday with all my leasing info.. I havent purchased a lexus or infiniti but I did lease a caddilac 2 years ago and thought that the dealer experience with Acura was as good or better.

However these are the things I think Acura needs.

1. An optional V6 in the TSX
2. A Larger V8 Bling Bling SUV
3. three words "REAR WHEEL DRIVE"
4. Offer an AWD model of either the TSX or the TL
5. Realize you arent going to steal BMW sales with a FWD car.
6. They can always do what Jaguar did, offer insanely good lease deals and eat a little capital cash just to get more cars on the road.
7. License onstar or something similar
8. Offer bigger bonuses to repeat buyers
9. Offer cross shopper bonuses, for example, if somebody trades in their 3 series for a tsx give em a lil sumfin sumfin
10. And just my personal request, a car with a turbo

 

It seems Acura is being very stubborn about a number of issues: RWD, V8, available options, e.t.c. Their attitude seems to be that since they feel it's not important to offer these things, they're not important. The reality is that if a customer perceives something to be true, it IS true.

I completely agree with Justin's post. Why there is no high end Acura to compete with the 7-series, LS430, Q45, Jag, MB S-class, Audi A8, and VW Phaeton is beyond me. If they can do what they did with the TL for $33,000, imagine what they can do for $60,000!

One more thing: I want REAL WOOD in my car!

 

Give Acura time. Remember, Honda doesn't have the cash to throw around that Toyota does. Honda has come a long way from being a small two-stroke engine company to a car/boat/garden equipment/ATV/plane(soon) company.

Lexus' ES (which is FWD by the way) outsells all of Lexus' RWD sedans combined. I think the Acura division was created to compete in the high-volume entry luxury market that the ES resides in, and I they are doing a great job of this. The TSX and TL match up very well against the IS and ES. I can see why Honda isn't willing to spend millions to develop new RWD platforms just so they can steal 10,000 or so sales a year from Lexus' high-end lineup. Instead, they are focusing on refining their FWD platforms and 4 cylinder engines, which are the best in the business now. With the upcoming AWD (probably) RL, we will start to see some improvements in Acura's high-end offerings. I expect to see a S2000-based Acura luxury roadster or coupe sometime in the next 5 years too.

As for the dealer experience, Acura buyers don't want to deal with haughty Lexus or MB-like dealerships. That's why they are buying an Acura; they want a great car without ripoff options packages or arrogant salespeople.

 

Although I agree the with article, one thing that needs to change is the buyer perception that price equals luxury. Many people think that just because the price of a vehicle is high, it means that it provides luxury, though this may not necessarily be the case. Also, price does not equal quality. Mercedes, BMW, and Audi have all recently been implicated for a reduction in the quality of their products, yet people still buy them because they have the perception that their quality is high.

Of course, Acura really does need to spice things up a bit. The problem is that even in Japan, Honda has no product to compete with the full-size class, so there's nothing that they can convert into a competitor for the LS430, S-class, 7-series, and A8.

The V8 issue I think is a little overblown. A solid, large displacement V6 with a well integrated hybrid system would provide V8 performance while allowing for V6 fuel efficiency. Plus, there is the possibility for AWD with the use of the hybrid system.

As for RWD, it may be good for high-performance cars, like the S2000 and and the NSX, but for a daily driver, FWD or AWD makes more sense. Since the majority of drivers will not drive their cars at 10/10ths, the RWD performance advantage will not really be seen in daily driving. However, for enthusiast targeted models, an RWD couldn't hurt.

With the dealers, there have been good dealers and there have been bad dealers. When I went to the local Lexus dealer, they were very enthusiastic, but also gave the perception of being insincere. The Acura dealer I leased my TSX from is one that I've dealt with before and they have never failed to impress with their service. The local Acura dealer that I get the car serviced at has always shown me nothing but respect. I know there are some people with bad dealer experiences, but there definitely are good dealers. Personally, I also like the look of Acura dealers more than Lexus dealers. The Acura dealers tend to look more youthful, though that may work against them with the older crowd.

So that's my two cents.

 

so are you saying acura customers dont want good customer service??? and you seem to miss the point completely, reread the article please... yes the ES sells more than the RWD sedans...but guess where the majority of the profits come from? a ES base sells for 46kcdn, LS sells for 83k+ now think about how many more ES' they would need to sell to get profit from ONE LS?? and the ES already costs a few k more than the new TL already. and read the article about the SUV's...

 

...but just to compete in that premium luxury category, Honda would need to spend so much on R&D for stuff they have no experience in, like variable suspension, adaptive steering, parking sensors, and other goodies the top models for Lexus, BMW, and MB have. I think Honda will make everyone look foolish in about a decade when they are leading the way with fuel cell cars and other 'real' technological achievements, while the other auto companies are trying to build the next mega-SUV. Honda missed the boat on the large SUV craze, so there is no reason to bother playing catch-up now. I applaude Honda for thinking ahead of the times and realizing gas-guzzlers aren't the answer.

And gilbo, you don't live in a big white house in Washington, DC do you? Because the way you read 'acura customers don't want good customer service' from 'acura buyers don't want to deal with ripoff options packages or arrogant salespeople' is strangely reminiscient of a certain president reading 'imminent threat' from 'no evidence of WMD programs'.

 

uh huh...Lexus already has the RX330 hybrid comming out later this year, along with the hybrid highlander and the prius is selling great (as in way ahead of the insight and civic hybrid)... and think about it, if honda doesnt make the money now with popular vehicles..where are they going to get money to invest in new technologies that you dream of? Honda has shown interest in new technolgies in the past, what do you think will make them change their minds now or in the future especially without the financial resources available to other brands who have money b/c they are selling cars customers want right now? or toytoa could just buy any technology it wants in the future with the growing 40billion+ cash hoard that they have.

well, if you read the article..what dont you understand about acura customer satisfaction lacking?? and if the other brands and their arrogant sales and expensive options still beat acura and their so called customer service..doesnt that signal that acura service is in the pitts? i mean the other automakers have arrogant sales and overpriced options yet customers are still more satisfied than acura ones??

 

I have to admit the service at my local Acura dealer leaves something to be desired. The service I received from a parts rep at another Acura dealer back in 99 left even more to be desired.

Maybe its because I only visit service at 8AM on Saturday morning's? but I've found that I have to be the the nice guy first in order to be treated well. It just does'nt seem like they go that extra mile to make you happy, your more like a bother than a customer.

Their sales team was quite different in my experience.

 

That article pretty much sums up what is being debated in this forum almost everyday.

It's true, Honda has fallen behind in improving Acura's markethold and it's ability to compete against the other Japanese luxury makers. And some of that has to do with the budget limitations of a company the size of Honda. Toyota and Nissan both have plenty of money to develope their cars into much more sophisticated cars. Lexus and Infiniti now have the true ability to compete against their European counterparts. But that came with huge investment into the luxury market.

I think it all depends on if Honda is satisfied with Acura's performance so far in the luxury market. If Honda doesn't want a larger stake in the luxury market and wants to be a value-conscious luxury brand, than it would be in a pretty decent position right now. IF it wants to move up market, though, than it would definitely have to spend some of it's capital in developing new platforms, engines and drivetrains for the Acura brand.

It is true that Honda has been late to the competition for various booming markets, but they didn't do so bad once they caught up. The Odyssey came at the end of the minivan boom and it was considered (still kinda is) a great minivan. The SUVs of Honda were also late to the game, but they have faired well, but not as well as the Odyssey. Now, Honda is also developing a pickup truck, which might be quite a risk for the company. Personally, I think they would have faired better to invest that money into improving the Acura marque.

The Honda representatives have said that they have pretty much reached the limits of what a FWD platform can do. There is no way they can put more than 240hp unless they can deal with the torque steer. They have to go to either a RWD or AWD option to keep Acura models in the hunt with other cars in its market. I don't think Acura can diversify their models in the way BMW does it with engines, but they do need more cars and SUVs in their line up to give their customers more choices. And if they really want to move upscale, they are going to need a 8 cylinder engine in the next 10 to 15 years.

Junkster, whose kinda given up hope for Acura in the long run.

 

Come on guys, it's all about design and styling of the cars, Lexus is beating Acura because Lexus has some styling and design which is a lot different from their parent Toyota company. Customer service of Lexus is also a lot better than Acura from what I've heard, and they have the best resale value.

Acura designs are still too similar and "Honda-like" and haven't distanced themselves from Honda. My friends, parents, and relatives like my Tsx, but at certain angles they still say it looks like the current Civic sedan, which I don't like to hear. The new TL is nice too, but you can tell it has the Honda style with the rims and boring front style.

I know most people including me bought Acura cause it has Honda reliability and great resale value like the Honda cars, but that's about it, most of Honda/Acura cars don't look striking like a Lexus Gs430, Ls430, or Sc430 and don't offer RWD or AWD option which is pretty dumb.

Yeah Infiniti is #3 behind Lexus and Acura, but they are catching up. I'm beginning to see more G35 coupe, sedan, and the Fx series on the road.

Honda should have money cause they do make lawn mowers, motorcycles, boats, and other stuff, but I always wondered what else Toyota except cars, which makes them have a lot of money compared to Honda?

 

I think you do makes some good points, 04, and yes, Acura's main selling point is value.

The Lexus designs, in general and in design groups, is considered very safe and isn't considered 'striking'. Not saying that's bad, I do like the LS, but with Toyota admitting now that they are becoming more design conscious, and with the launch of the new GS, Toyota is going to change their design ideas.

Acuar not having RWD/AWD and a 8 is kinda silly, it's true.

Have you noticed that you see alot of Infiniti's as well? I see quite a bit of them here in CO, with not a whole lot of TL sightings.

Honda is a small company because it produces SMALL things, with motors that are easy to produce and research without having to devote too much capital. Toyota, in comparison, only makes automobiles, but has almost double the number of models featured by Honda. They sell much more cars than Honda, with autos that have higher profit margins.

Junkster, who likes 04's avatar. MJ baby!

 

Well in the article you notice that they show Infiniti sales jumping a crap load last year.. why? The G35.. a balanced car that is RWD and unique to the US.. The initial Q45's were way too gadget orientated for a luxury brand and with the I35, I mean who wants to pay damn near 40 grand for a really nice maxima. And nobody bought that QX4 cuz it was damn ugly.

At least Acura go the head start on bringing out the MDX before the Pilot came out so the Pilot is a stripped down MDX instead of the MDX being a pimped out pilot

As far as the dealer goes, they are building a brand new Acura dealership in Naperville to replace the one I just bought my car from and It's suppose to be pretty nice and posh we'll see.

 

Thanks Junkster, yeah I still think MJ is the man!

Just wondered since you're from CO, I wonder what they think of Kobe?


Also Barnett used to coach Northwestern football in the mid-90s. He was a jerk though in the minds of Northwestern fans cause he just bolted out of NU w/o any warning.

 

Comparing anyone to Toyota will prove disappointing (to the company being compared). They are a force to behold. However, Acura sales were up last year in a down market. The TSX and TL have exceeded expectations, and it sounds like the RL is going to have a dynamite drivetrain. They supposedly are working on a CR-V derived small sport-ute. The new NSEX will be coming shortly. I think the company is really making progress. The only thing I think they should so is drop the very small cars - after all Honda could use a replacement for the Prelude (RSX).

 

I loved the last two words "THINK BIGGER" because the 4 bangers pushing the 160hp isnt eye catching or neck jerking at all also the $89,000 rwd NSX only has 290HP, I mean come on I can save me $44,000 and get me a 287hp 350z with more than the same features it has also 225hp $46,000 RL no Im sorry but that has been out of the ball game and I feel sorry for anyone who bought a $46,000 sedan like that over all the other fantastic cars out in the market at that price. But I will give props for the nicely redesigned MDX now that is at the top of my list with more hp to give and more features to make me smile but seriously Acura needs to do more reading on what their customers want and for one second just not to think about FWD because I for one isnt the biggest fan of FWD. MY .02

 

Acura needs to be ABOVE and BEYOND what they offer now...I mean that in regards to client service, a well trained sales/service staff and products that are diverse. The entry lineup such as the TSX/TL we can say have best value in class...but to play in the league of the big boys like the S Class, 7 Series and LS430s value don't mean a whole lot. They are spending that kind of cash for really just one reason...because they can. So with the high end line there can't be any compromises...if Acura wants to play in that league they have to play all their ace cards. Acura can still offer value in their middle line as their main calling card...but why stop there...go the extra mile.

 

(a) just b/c you have a lot of HP doesn't mean anything, esp. if you have to get into your upper rev range to use it. MOST drivers never get their car over like 4500 RPM's. I doubt 350Z makes 287 at that rev range (the NSX might not either). my tdi on the other hand....

(b) how can you say toyota has unique styling. (1) the Es = a rebadged camry. don't play. you know its true.

 

the nissan is putting out max torque at 4500rpm (where your TDI starts to die off and nearing redline) and the 3.5 in the Z puts out a nice flat power curve... at 4500, the nissan is no slouch, around 240crank or so from what i remember from stock dynos...

the ES=camry..but all the other sedans/coupes in the lexus lineup is unique to lexus in the marketplace...so you got the IS,GS,LS,SC sedans all unique...

 

Acura, as I see it, there is nothing wrong with the brand. They provide niche vehicles. The problem is when Acura owners get all stuffy when people don't recognize Acura as a luxury car.

Acura needs to get their shit together with quality and dealer service before they introduce any new products. The new TL seems just as plauged with problems as the previous model. Who the hell wants a avg reliable Japanese car? I'd just go German then and enjoy the true sportiness of it with a chance on reliability.

 

I don't think Acura owners get stuffy when "people don't recognize Acura as a luxury car," but I do think they get annoyed when people troll certain websites dedicated to Acuras and bash them without provocation or logic.

 

what is wrong with Acura Quality? the current tl is a first year model. every car will go through this phase.

 

U must be a newb.

 

Acura can start by simply do the same things Infinite and Lexus are doing. Then after that, improve on them. A lot of people buy Acura because it's different from Lexus. RSX should be Honda, not Acura. Frankly, the TSX not having a power passanger seat would be pretty unpopular with the luxury car crowd, just to name something. Or inline-4? We've discussed this before (blah blah), but I think they should have stuck an inline-5 in the TSX. Then make the TL rearwheel (or is it? I forget) drive and v8 RL all-wheel drive. People are obviously willing to spend more money. Sometimes it's not all about performance. Sometimes it's just "I have a V8 and you don't". Putting a inline-4 in the TSX sounds cheap, but it did sell. There are two sides.

 

Acura sells becuase it is the most easily accessible "luxury" brand, meaning they are the cheapest. But to become sucessful, a luxury car company should not use "cheap price" to sell its cars, rather to make cars that people would want to buy even if it were the same price as a Lexus,MB,BMW etc... the TSX sells because its cheaper than all its competition, and to arrive at the low MSRP, the consequences are a car that is not designed to compete in the luxury/sport sedan market in the first place and as a result gets a I4 FWD platform based on a family sedan. This low price/compromise is rampant thoroughout the acura lineup save the non factor RL and NSX. so the whole lineup is of compormised vehicles for the sake of low prices. the problem with this is, if a buyer wanted low prices/bang for buck, would've gotten a honda. to escape from this current reality, acura needs to make luxury/sport vehicles that are not a compromise for sake of lower prices.

 

gilbo gilbo gilbo.. you're right. People are obviously willing to spend the money... examples: Lexus, BMW, Infinite, MB. All of which have higher prices and sell more cars. Higher prices mean better cars; mostly. Not in the case of BMW sometimes.

 

OK

OK

You ignorant troll! Not only does it COMPETE in this market, it EXCELS in this market.

I still would have bought the TSX if it was more money than any other car in the high 20's/low 30's. I think it's the best car at any price. You are not qualified to talk about price/bang for buck since you are a BMW enthusiast. What do you know about value? BTW, I love that nearly loaded X3 for $46,000. What a deal!

 

I bought my TSX because it was the best bang for the buck...

Anything else I was concidering would have been an additional $100/mo lease thanks to acura's good resale value.

Plus I have the bragging rights of finally having a car on Car And Driver's 10 Best list