Who does the TSX compete against. I assume the IS300, but who else? The TSX has only a I4 so I can't imagine who it competes against!

 

When I went car shopping last spring and bought the TSX, the dealer told me that buyers of the TSX looked at these following cars:

Nissan Maxima
Nissan Altima
Honda Accord EX-V6
Toyota Camry XLE V6

They didn't say that the buyers that bought the TSX also looked at these vehicles the BMW 3-series, Infiniti G35, Mercedes C-class, A4, etc.

 

Don't forget, a good number (including myself) bought one of these:



I fell into that category too. Out of the above, it came down to the 9-3 and TSX.

 

I shopped at first:

Audi A4 1.8T FWD
Honda Accord EX-L
Mazda 6
Volkswagen Passat
Saab 9-3

 

I was looking to get a RSX...but saw the TSX in person and well...you know the rest.

 

saab 9-3 is damn hot!!!

 

i like the new 9-3 also...but just dont see myself in it...nice car though

 

Wow! 93Kewl, your 9-3 Vector is SO HOT!!!

I love that car, but I didn't buy it because I was worried about its reliability issues - whether that was really justified or not, I am not sure though... have you had any problem with your 9-3 or not?

Anyway, I think that the TSX was aiming squarely at the A4, Volvo V40 and BMW 3 series (at least Acura thought so! LOL)

 

I love the looks of the 9-3, but it didn't make my cut (personally) - and the long-term reliability put me off since I'll have the car 5+ years.

as for "and BMW 3 series (at least Acura thought so! LOL" - the TSx actually performs very very close to the BMW 325, which was its target. 90%+ of the performance for 75% of the price.

 

Very surprised at that list, and gotta say I disagree with it. The cars mentioned by the other people on here seem more right.

 

That is wrong...Acura never said the TSX was aimed squarely at the 3 Series. It was aimed squarely at the A4 1.8T, S40 and IS300 and in-directly at the 3 Series. I do not have the official guides from Acura with me but Acura did not bring over the TSX as a 3 Series fighter.

As far as what we think or the press thats a different story.

 

The Saab 9-3 looks really good, but why do they need to put the black plastic door handles and rub strip on it? Even a VW Passat has body colored rub strips. I just think it cheapens the car's appearance.

 

It must be a swedish car thing. Volvo has done it for years. Saab has done it for years. Give them time for a refresh--Saab and Volvo are notorious for changing their plastic door handles and rubstrips over to body-color for a midlife "refresh".

 

It's damn hot until you get in the car and realize that the console contains more buttons than the keyboard I use to write this message.

The console is not as clean as the TSX...

It's the same thing for the G35. Drop dead georgous exterior (coupe) but gets sloppy inside.



Luc

 

Pehaps you don't like that sorta thing, but I have to tell you that they are damn convienent. The telephone keypad is not only for for the Onstar phone (which has definately come in handy), but also serves as a 12 station memory each for FM, FM1, and AM stations. And with most Jap cars you have a single button that usually to have to press multiple times just to get the setting that you want. With the 9-3, just press the button once and your done. To the neophyte, the buttons may seem like overkill, but once you get used to them, you find that they are convienent.

So? But as mentioned above, just as functional with even more features and owner customization options than is offered with the TSX. I'd take that trade-off anyday!

 

My salesman gave me a reprint of an article in the October 2003 issue of Automobile magazine called "The $30,000 Personality Test." It compared the following cars and rated them in the order shown:

1. Acura TSX (duh)
2. BMW 325i
3. Infiniti G35
4. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
5. Mazda6 s
6. Subaru Impreza WRX
7. Lexus IS 300
8. Audi A4 1.8T Quattro
9. Saab 9-3 Linear
10. Mercedes-Benz C230K Sport
11. Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
12. Nissa Maxima SE

"Bottom line: TXS is the best synthesis of luxury, sport, and value out there right now."

If anyone is interested, I can scan and post the article.

 

Thanks Evelion, but we've already got it, as well as some good discussions on the article.


Interesting Acceleration numbers in AUTOMOBILE

Comparison Test in Automobile Mag (Article Scan)

October AUTOMOBILE: 12 $30K sports sedans ranked and spanked

 

The TSX is a good compromise on 3 angles: family, sporty, entry-level luxury. So, you'll get cross-shoppers from all 3 angles. It's not the most family-friendly, the most sporty, or the most luxurious, but it has elements of all 3 that make it appealing.

I cross-shopped family sedans (Accord, Camry, Altima, Maxima, Mazda6) and saw the TSX as the ultimate classy family sedan. The TSX isn't going to stand up well if you're ready to spend $40K and want more whiz-bang performance or panache, so I imagine many (though not necessarily those on enthusiast forums like this one) were considering cheaper cars and got drawn in by the TSX's "oh, it's only $2,000 more" factor.

 

So for most people here, was TSX at the "upper" or "lower" end of the price range they were shopping for?

For me, it was upper... thought about the RSX, SE-R SpecV (yuck), WRX, celica, mazda6, and decided I could afford a bit better.

If I had waited a couple of months, I probably would have considered the TL (for a couple of seconds), and the Mazda3 (great choice, I think).

 

when i shopped my list was:

IS300
Accord EX V-6
G35
WRX

 

Sexy car, Kewl, no doubt about that

 

For me it was at the end of the upper range. I was able to justify spending so much because of all the standard features.

 

For me it was at the end of the lower range. I was able to justify spending so little because I liked the car better than the cars in the upper range.

 

For me it was in was smack in the middle. I only seriously considered the Mazda6 and 325i/xi. If the same search were to occur now, I'd consider the TL, AWD G35, and 9-3.

It's a testament to the TSX's appeal that cars from so many classes are cross-shopped with it.

 

For those of you that might be interested in what CR has to say about the "competition":

Some good news - Consumer Reports awards a "RECOMMENDED" checkmark to 2004 Saab 9-3 in its auto reports. CR reports that the first-year reliability of (2003) Saab 9-3 has been "average".

The 9-3 got lots of "very good" (VG) or "excellent" (EX) marks from CR in the full report. All parts of the car got EX marks, except for electrical, brakes, power equipment, and body hardware, all of which received VG marks.

Speed Ratings for Vector with Automatic (marked very good):
0-30 mph, sec. 3.3
0-60 mph, sec. 8.1
Quarter mile, sec. 16.4
Quarter mile, mph 89
45-65 mph, sec. 5.2
Braking for Vector with Automatic (marked excellent):
120 ft

Transmission, Routine Handling, and Emergency Handling all received VG marks. Maximum avoidance maneuver speed was clocked at 56 mph, which is among the best for pretty much all cars CR reports on.

Ride was rated "fair", the only lowest mark for this car.

Noise: Average
Driving position: VG
Access: Average
Controls and Displays: VG
Fit and Finish: VG
Trunk: Average
Front-seat Comfort: VG
Rear-seat Comfort: Average

Fuel Economy: 21/30

No government crash test results were included, but IIHS offset crash test was rated GOOD.

 

My prior car before I bought the TSX was a 1986 Saab 900S. Drove it for 7 years. Generally, it served me well, although stuff was ALWAYS breaking. I have to admit though, it had the most comfortable seats I have ever sat in.

For me, the Saab 9-3 wasn't even a consideration simply because of my loathing for GM: they took a fun, unique brand and bastardized it to sell rebadged Luminas. I didn't want to support that. Also, Saab's turbocharged engines have always been a maintenance nightmare.

It's a shame both of Sweden's great car companies had to sell out to the Big 3 menace.

 

Of course, for a simpler interior and the same basic chassis..you could always get a Chevy Mailibu. Esplilon is as epsilon does. (Tongue in cheek here so don't flame me lol). I would love to hear that the SAAB 9-3 is not experiencing any problems. I have always had a soft spot in my heart for SAABs.

 

I see. Just out of curiosity, where did they rank the 9-3 overall in the class of 'upscale sedans'??

 

What difference does it make? It's a "recommended" sports sedan.

 

Well, I am in the Searching phase and I have a list of cars that I am looking at:

1.) TSX with NAV
2.) TL, a little too expensive
3.) Honda Accord EX 4 banger with NAV
4.) Used '02+ TL Type S with NAV
5.) Used '00 Q45 (only a few had NAV)

Other than that, the other cars like the Altima and Mazda 6 don't have NAV available. My requirements were 4 doors, NAV, decent rear room, and preferably FWD (though I have 1 RWD car there).

I went and looked at a Black TSX 6 speed last night and the interior is really nice. THe only thing I didn't like that the yellow color of the interior and the wood inside. It would be nice to get the aluminum accents with the light interior. Is that possible??

 

I think it should be a pretty easy choice for you Nyholm. TSX all the way. As for the Black on Parchment. If your in Canada the Black Ext is not available with the Ebony Int and alluminum trim. But Black/Black is available in the US.

 

I have been lurking around SaabCentral for a few weeks (and forums for TSX, G35, Mazda3) and these things come up often for the 9-3:
-Rattles
-Suspension knocking
-memory seats losing their settings
-Onstar problems
-Stereo problems (losing settings)
-manual transimission shifting issues when cold (1st and 2nd)
-stalling with auto transmission (supposed to be fixed via software update...I thought this is a car, not MSOffice where you need a Patch every few months)

In general seems like a lot of issues with their on-board computer system.

Couple of instances of people lemon lawed their 9-3.

Discussion forums usually have higher concentration of complaints. Still seems like a lot of complaints for a relatively low volume brand. Don't know the numbers in the USA but in Canada, SAAB sold something like 1700 cars total in 2003.

For some unknown reason, it is still on my list. I guess having a VW Passat in the household has numbed my senses to car problems.

 

Airboy,

Here's the scoop:

-Rattles

Yes there are some that have rattles. Just like the TSX (and other cars) you get one that does rattle or you don't. I got lucky, I don't.

-Suspension Knocking

Nope, no knock here.

-Onstar problems

Don't think this a problem with the car. OnStar seems to suffer from areas that don't have coverage. One in awhile I'll drive into an area that doesn't have coverage. I seem to recall one guy over at SC having Onstar problems - but he is the minority.

Stereo problems (losing settings)

Not a problem at all. Actually it's good. Losing your settings is due to when a station starts transmitting RDS data (song and artist info) which the Saab system picks up. If you had 103.5 programmed and now "Hot 103" shows up, the setting is lost. Reprogram the station and it corrects everything.

-manual transimission shifting issues when cold (1st and 2nd)
Can't speak to this as I have an Auto.

-stalling with auto transmission (supposed to be fixed via software update...I thought this is a car, not MSOffice where you need a Patch every few months).

Yes, it is a car, and a very advanced one at that. 36 differenent computer systems. Remember, it's a first year car now beginning it's second year. The 04's (supposedly) have been much improved.

Any forum maven will tell you that the net and forums like these are centers for people with problems. Plus, the people that peruse these forums are certainly NOT the majority.


Also FYI -

Saab sold 47,914 cars in the US for 2003. By far the majority of them were 9-3's.

Whatever this may be worth to you or anyone else.

 

haha, just kidding. The tsx has it's share of first year bugs too.... jumpy driver seat, rattle issues and there have been a few blown trannies. Thank god there have been no reports of a tsx auto failure.

 

Blown trannyies on a 6sp? Driver error perhaps?

 

The Onstar issue that I read about was that it stopped working all together. Had to do some sort of "reset" but eventually would stop working later.

How is losing your preset stations "good"? Can't call them presets if they don't stick around. Anyway, the one that I came across had to do with the controls skipping back to #1 as the presets were cycled. 1,2,3, and then 1 again instead of 4.

Being an engineer myself I can appreciate the complexities involved. However, as a consumer, I don't care how many computer systems there are in the car. If it stalls because of some firmware issue, it is a design problem.

The ability of "update" firmware/software after release has led to rampant spread of "unfinished" products. Didn't think I'd see it in cars.

All cars have problems and these car/model specific sites are good for finding solutions as well as potential issues. I made no mention of issues relating to the TSX because there are plenty of posts right here in this site, not because I think there aren't any. I was just reponding to a "request" specific to SAAB.

As I wrote before, I still like the car...maybe I'll wait till 2005 before I replace my Integra.

 

I think the dealers tried to say that but it doesn't really appear so. Most all of them have been experience stick drivers. I think there have been like 3 reported which is far form an epidemic.

 

It's a good thing because that means more stations are coming aboard transmitting RDS data along with music. The reason preset weren't cycling (I had this problem) was because a new station started transmitting RDS info (lets just say 103.5 programmed to #6). When on the station preset #5, the stereo would go try to go 103.5 at #6 but couldn't because the stereo no longer just picks up 103.5 but also the Station name and song information so it would go back to #1. If I reprogram #6 again, the problem is solved and now I can cycle from 1-12 straight through.

It's really nice to have the song title and artist on the SID. I can't remember how many times in the past I have wondered what the name of the song and artist is.