tsx vs tls
#81
I would have bought a TL, but bought a TSX because I liked it better and it actually suited our needs better. "Needs" didn't happen to include using my car as a proclamation of my manliness or how much more money I make than you. My ego is stable enough, my logic sensible enough, (and my schlong big enough?) to allow me make the less manly, less Jones-keeper-upper, less typical Umurican choice. Same line of thinking that put a minivan into our garage, instead of a frivilous SUV.
#82
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by DLTSX6MT
I would have bought a TL, but bought a TSX because I liked it better and it actually suited our needs better. "Needs" didn't happen to include using my car as a proclamation of my manliness or how much more money I make than you. My ego is stable enough, my logic sensible enough, (and my schlong big enough?) to allow me make the less manly, less Jones-keeper-upper, less typical Umurican choice. Same line of thinking that put a minivan into our garage, instead of a frivilous SUV.
lol...
I bought the TSX even before the 04 TL's were out or anyone had any idea what they looked like. I wanted the TSX so bad I couldn't wait.
#83
Team Owner
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Originally Posted by dom
lol...
I bought the TSX even before the 04 TL's were out or anyone had any idea what they looked like. I wanted the TSX so bad I couldn't wait.
I bought the TSX even before the 04 TL's were out or anyone had any idea what they looked like. I wanted the TSX so bad I couldn't wait.
![Werd](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif)
And I loved it so much that I got a second one 2 years later.
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
EDIT: Come to think of it, so did you, for that matter...
#84
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I saw the current TL-S in front of me on the highway this morning. Pretty sporty, but I don't like the new smoked taillights in the rear. Other than that pretty sweet car. Now would I take an IS350 or G35 sedan over it? Probably not. But, I would take the TSX over it.
It's ironic because back in Dec. 03 when I first got the TSX, I was looking at the dealers leftover 2003 TL-type S's, but I felt the TL back then was too big and the interior wasn't as nice as the TSX was. I wanted the new TL too, but it was a bit out of my price range w/navi and there was a waiting list to get the color I wanted. Anthracite color.
It's ironic because back in Dec. 03 when I first got the TSX, I was looking at the dealers leftover 2003 TL-type S's, but I felt the TL back then was too big and the interior wasn't as nice as the TSX was. I wanted the new TL too, but it was a bit out of my price range w/navi and there was a waiting list to get the color I wanted. Anthracite color.
#86
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i was loaned a TSX when my 02 TL-S tranny went out and i have to say that my 02 handles better than the 07 TSX i got. If i wanted an accord i would save the extra cash it cost for an acura and just bought a honda accord. TSX= No power untill 6000 rpm, clunky doors and cramped interior.
just my 2cents
Mrproul
just my 2cents
Mrproul
#88
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by mrproul
i was loaned a TSX when my 02 TL-S tranny went out and i have to say that my 02 handles better than the 07 TSX i got. If i wanted an accord i would save the extra cash it cost for an acura and just bought a honda accord. TSX= No power untill 6000 rpm, clunky doors and cramped interior.
just my 2cents
Mrproul
just my 2cents
Mrproul
![Dunno](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
#89
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by dom
He been banned. I have no patience for idiotic NooBs.
Lets get this back on topic.
Lets get this back on topic.
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#92
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Originally Posted by mrproul
i was loaned a TSX when my 02 TL-S tranny went out and i have to say that my 02 handles better than the 07 TSX i got. If i wanted an accord i would save the extra cash it cost for an acura and just bought a honda accord. TSX= No power untill 6000 rpm, clunky doors and cramped interior.
just my 2cents
Mrproul
just my 2cents
Mrproul
#93
Is waiting in
I agree with EuRTSX, Alin10123, and you should drive both cars for yourself so you can compare the way that YOU feel in them.
I have an 06 AT TSX. I've driven an 05 6MT TSX and boy was I jealous! I've also driven an 07 6MT TL-S and was very impressed. But you can't really compare an I4 to a V6. If your determined between the two I guess we can hope for a race between the 2007 Honda R&D TL Type S and Grand Am TSX on the Touge.
If anything, wait for the 4th Gen TL & 2nd Gen TSX to be released and decide from there.
I have an 06 AT TSX. I've driven an 05 6MT TSX and boy was I jealous! I've also driven an 07 6MT TL-S and was very impressed. But you can't really compare an I4 to a V6. If your determined between the two I guess we can hope for a race between the 2007 Honda R&D TL Type S and Grand Am TSX on the Touge.
![Wish](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wish.gif)
#95
Tristate ViP Crew
Originally Posted by Black_6spd
I was countering another poster's claim that a "4 banger" disqualifies a car from being "sporty."
To your point, I don't think the TSX is either. It's definately not a "sports car" or a luxury sedan. I simply think it does a good job of imitating both.
And yes, the TSX does belong in the same breath as the S2000 and ITR. I'm sure you're quite aware of the N/A potential of the K24A2 motor and have seen what it can do. The big gripe I have (not directed at you) is with the TL owners who take a TSX 5AT loaner for 2 hours and automatically claim that its completely useless. Imagine if the S2000 had a long-geared 5AT tranny that gobbled up power? What if the ITR had an auto tranny as well that didn't cater toward its high revving engine? Would that be enough to assume the 6MT is a dog?
Additionally, I really think that if the S2000 was available as a loaner to some TL or even RL owners, they would complain "it doesn't have enough power." They are simply VERY different cars that are designed to be driven to their limits.
Again I'm not singling you out -- I read your posts on other threads and you're not one of the "haters" of the TSX. It seems you simply have a likeness for Acuras in general.
Again, your preference of the TL or even TL-S is more reflective of the general public that perceives the TL as an upgrade, and I can understand that. However, what's so hard to understand about the minority prefering the high-revving K24A2 engine over a SOHC V6?
To your point, I don't think the TSX is either. It's definately not a "sports car" or a luxury sedan. I simply think it does a good job of imitating both.
And yes, the TSX does belong in the same breath as the S2000 and ITR. I'm sure you're quite aware of the N/A potential of the K24A2 motor and have seen what it can do. The big gripe I have (not directed at you) is with the TL owners who take a TSX 5AT loaner for 2 hours and automatically claim that its completely useless. Imagine if the S2000 had a long-geared 5AT tranny that gobbled up power? What if the ITR had an auto tranny as well that didn't cater toward its high revving engine? Would that be enough to assume the 6MT is a dog?
Additionally, I really think that if the S2000 was available as a loaner to some TL or even RL owners, they would complain "it doesn't have enough power." They are simply VERY different cars that are designed to be driven to their limits.
Again I'm not singling you out -- I read your posts on other threads and you're not one of the "haters" of the TSX. It seems you simply have a likeness for Acuras in general.
Again, your preference of the TL or even TL-S is more reflective of the general public that perceives the TL as an upgrade, and I can understand that. However, what's so hard to understand about the minority prefering the high-revving K24A2 engine over a SOHC V6?
#96
Originally Posted by mrproul
i was loaned a TSX when my 02 TL-S tranny went out and i have to say that my 02 handles better than the 07 TSX i got. If i wanted an accord i would save the extra cash it cost for an acura and just bought a honda accord. TSX= No power untill 6000 rpm, clunky doors and cramped interior.
just my 2cents
Mrproul
just my 2cents
Mrproul
Um, if you're playing that silly "it's just a dolled up <insert car name here> with a <insert car brand here> badge" game... the TL is far guiltier of this than the TSX.
Technically, it's the TL that is a US Accord... 2G TL was 1998-2002 Accord, 3G TL is 2003-2007 Accord. And if you really must go down this route...TSX is a sporty, European tuned car in every market it's in. TL is built on the US Accord which is a bloated family grocery getter car for everyman and everywoman (in the U.S., that's every bloated man and every bloated woman, I might add) - although definitely one of the best family grocery getter cars.
#97
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Originally Posted by Alin10123
I appreciate the opinions. But why bash him because of his age? What's wrong with driving a tsx at 45? Please lets keep this thread civil otherwise the mods might lock it. If that happens, nobody benefits.
#98
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Originally Posted by amadeus303
Easy there, buddy... it's not like you're dealing w/ a bunch of slouches on this forum. The vast majority of members here are quite "successful" if you define success by the amount of one's salary. I've found that most people on the TSX side of AZ have bought the car because they, in fact, are enthusiasts... and not because they couldn't go out and buy something else (such as a TL).
#99
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Originally Posted by waTSX
Sorry, Mrproul, but this is just flat ridiculous.
#100
Instructor
i know this is an acura forum and i personally own a 06 tsx. and i gotta say, i LOVE my car. for the features that came with it and the handling and high revv 2.4. nothin can beat it in the same price range.
BUT, if u r looking at tl-s. which is around 37k. with that price, i would personally go with the new G35. i m sorry, honda's v6 just can't keep up with nissan's VQ. they know how to make the perfect I4 but not v6. and u don't get that torque steer because it's either rwd or awd. it's just not smart to put that much torque on the front wheels and honda knows it.
BUT, if u r looking at tl-s. which is around 37k. with that price, i would personally go with the new G35. i m sorry, honda's v6 just can't keep up with nissan's VQ. they know how to make the perfect I4 but not v6. and u don't get that torque steer because it's either rwd or awd. it's just not smart to put that much torque on the front wheels and honda knows it.
#101
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Originally Posted by GenXY2k
i know this is an acura forum and i personally own a 06 tsx. and i gotta say, i LOVE my car. for the features that came with it and the handling and high revv 2.4. nothin can beat it in the same price range.
BUT, if u r looking at tl-s. which is around 37k. with that price, i would personally go with the new G35. i m sorry, honda's v6 just can't keep up with nissan's VQ. they know how to make the perfect I4 but not v6. and u don't get that torque steer because it's either rwd or awd. it's just not smart to put that much torque on the front wheels and honda knows it.
BUT, if u r looking at tl-s. which is around 37k. with that price, i would personally go with the new G35. i m sorry, honda's v6 just can't keep up with nissan's VQ. they know how to make the perfect I4 but not v6. and u don't get that torque steer because it's either rwd or awd. it's just not smart to put that much torque on the front wheels and honda knows it.
#102
The TSX and the TL-S don't even have a similar set up. A topic like this will never be about how the two cars compare, but about which qualities of the car are more virtuous. And complicating matters the TL-S costs nearly 10 G's more, which shuffles the deck a few times over again.
But in general terms, I read a lot of posts talking about the power difference equating to sportiness, but in practicality it barely seems to matter. My real-life experiance with sporty driving is puling tight curves on back city streets or country roads much faster than usual, and having a feeling that the car isn't realy there, that I'm simply moving wherever I want to move.
For driving the winding roads, the engine doesn't need to be bigger because I hardly have a chance to use the power to begin with. The shifter and the steering wheel see most of the action.
For driving winding roads I prefer the car to be smaller and lighter because you feel less intertia pulling the car outwards, and hence feel safer the car won't fly off the road. I'd actualy prefer an RSX to the TSX or TL but that wasn't an option. The idea of puling tight corners with a full sized sedan strikes me as silly and dangerous.
Those luxury boats with the large displacement engines shouldn't be called sporty, they should be called a fast-passers, or something more descriptive of their limited usefulness and more generic apeal.
But in general terms, I read a lot of posts talking about the power difference equating to sportiness, but in practicality it barely seems to matter. My real-life experiance with sporty driving is puling tight curves on back city streets or country roads much faster than usual, and having a feeling that the car isn't realy there, that I'm simply moving wherever I want to move.
For driving the winding roads, the engine doesn't need to be bigger because I hardly have a chance to use the power to begin with. The shifter and the steering wheel see most of the action.
For driving winding roads I prefer the car to be smaller and lighter because you feel less intertia pulling the car outwards, and hence feel safer the car won't fly off the road. I'd actualy prefer an RSX to the TSX or TL but that wasn't an option. The idea of puling tight corners with a full sized sedan strikes me as silly and dangerous.
Those luxury boats with the large displacement engines shouldn't be called sporty, they should be called a fast-passers, or something more descriptive of their limited usefulness and more generic apeal.
#104
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Originally Posted by vitocorleone
For some people, the TL or even TLS is indeed an overall downgrade. Unless your definition of fun is racing stop light to stop light (where I'd imagine the TLS does a fair job depending on torque steer), and even if the handling is as good numbers wise, the TL is nowhere near as fun to drive as the TSX to a lot of people because of the overall feel of the car.... and the i4 is part of that fun.
Please stop assuming that the TL is a better car for everyone - you've done this in at least one other thread.
I've not driven a new TLS, but when I was buying the TSX over the TL despite the TL's "better" qualities, here's a few of the things I found instead:
* The TL looks wide, and feels wide, and would not fit into some city parking spots
* The TL's rear seat doesn't fold, reducing it's usefulness
* The TL's guage cluster looked like an improved American car's - leagues worse than the clean TSX's
* The style of the TL and the character line on the sides is dating its style more quickly as compared to the more conservative and refined TSX style
* The TL driving experience was more isolating than the TSX
* The TL's front seats seemed to be made for big and/or fat people compared to the narrower TSX seats
* The v6 had no thrill vs. the i4
* The TL felt like an even bigger car than it was given it's not much bigger than the TSX
* Torque steer - sure Acura does a good job of controlling it overall, but I'd rather switch to AWD/RWD much beyond TSX's power profile since it detracts from the fun
That being said, the TL is a fine car that I enjoy seeing on the roads (just not for me to own), and the TLS does look even better if only because you see fewer of them, and you should definitely drive them all to compare and see what qualities you really find more important.
Please stop assuming that the TL is a better car for everyone - you've done this in at least one other thread.
I've not driven a new TLS, but when I was buying the TSX over the TL despite the TL's "better" qualities, here's a few of the things I found instead:
* The TL looks wide, and feels wide, and would not fit into some city parking spots
* The TL's rear seat doesn't fold, reducing it's usefulness
* The TL's guage cluster looked like an improved American car's - leagues worse than the clean TSX's
* The style of the TL and the character line on the sides is dating its style more quickly as compared to the more conservative and refined TSX style
* The TL driving experience was more isolating than the TSX
* The TL's front seats seemed to be made for big and/or fat people compared to the narrower TSX seats
* The v6 had no thrill vs. the i4
* The TL felt like an even bigger car than it was given it's not much bigger than the TSX
* Torque steer - sure Acura does a good job of controlling it overall, but I'd rather switch to AWD/RWD much beyond TSX's power profile since it detracts from the fun
That being said, the TL is a fine car that I enjoy seeing on the roads (just not for me to own), and the TLS does look even better if only because you see fewer of them, and you should definitely drive them all to compare and see what qualities you really find more important.
good points...
I had the option of spending the extra +$8000 and getting a TL-S. I chose the TSX over the TL-S for these reasons.
1. GAS MILAGE! more HP = bigger engine= worse milage. Plus where you gonna use that power around town? I only have a cold air intake on my TSX and the thing won't do a 12 sec 1/4 mile but it hauls ass pretty well on the highway and back roads.
2. I think the TSX is better looking. The TL's are very nice but they are a bit bulky looking and I STILL don't get the awkwarldy angled tail lights... tri panel look on the back end just plain ugly my opinion. I think my tsx is the most estetically pleasing car on the road... didn't feel that way with the TL.
3. Even though the TLS has more HP, i don't think its worth the price. If you really need that kind of power pick up a TSX, spend $4000 on a supercharger (assuming hondata will eventually come out with a reflash to acompany it) and you'll still have $4000 left over to do whatever you want... hell start a college fund for your kids or something.
I haven't found 1 thing better about a TLS that doesn't have a valid counterpoint for the TSX... which is why I picked mine up. I've spent the $8 grand i saved on other stuff to make the car exactly what I want it to be instead of having a stock TLS that blends into the crowd more than not.
Both have a 6sp manual available.
Both have bluetooth
Both have a Navi available
Both have all the little things standard (leather, sunroof, keyless entry, ect...)
Like I said before... why overpay for a car that is just as nice if not nicer (which the TSX is in my opinion)
TSX is for people who love driving quality cars but know where the money should be spent.
TL-S (in my opinion from what I've seen in my hometown where even the landscapers drive BMW's and Hummers) is for people who want a great car but need the status symbol of having a model "below them" in the company line up. No offense.
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#105
TSX= only model in Acura lineup still manufactured in Japan
TL= manufactured in Ohio
Which may not mean much but it is one main reason I purchased a TSX over a TL
Also, the TL and TSX just do certain things better than the other which will attract different segments of the market. Either way I don't think you can go wrong with either choice.
TL= manufactured in Ohio
Which may not mean much but it is one main reason I purchased a TSX over a TL
Also, the TL and TSX just do certain things better than the other which will attract different segments of the market. Either way I don't think you can go wrong with either choice.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#106
But am I missing something? Why do SOME people assume that the higher cost car is better for you no matter what? If some people can be satisfied with a $30,000 car why hate on them because you have a $40,000 car. I never get that and I see that a lot on this and other forums. Sorry, just had to say it.
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
#107
Make a hole, coming thru!
Very funny just reading the last page here. I drove a 2007 TL loaner for a day while my 2006 TSX was getting a minor repair. It felt as comfortable (okay, more cushy) but I had to really coax it to show the same moxie on the streets and highway that my TSX does at the drop of a hint. (And no mistake, it did, it zoomed. Driving back from a team lunch, one companion said, "I think my hamburger just did a somersault in my stomach.") I also felt the TL was "bigger," boatier, rather like the US Accord V6 coupe I test drove before buying the TSX. Waaay nicer inside than the Accord, naturally.
After a month in my TSX, I had a hard time using some of the TL's controls ... as there were more of them. Sometimes simple is better.
No #&%*: by the end of the day, I was aching to get back into my own. Really. The TSX is nimble, light, slim, and fun. The TL just felt like a powerful Fat Catmobile. A bigger tiger, but without the spunky kittenishness.
After a month in my TSX, I had a hard time using some of the TL's controls ... as there were more of them. Sometimes simple is better.
No #&%*: by the end of the day, I was aching to get back into my own. Really. The TSX is nimble, light, slim, and fun. The TL just felt like a powerful Fat Catmobile. A bigger tiger, but without the spunky kittenishness.
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
#108
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Originally Posted by dank2hydro
TSX= only model in Acura lineup still manufactured in Japan
TL= manufactured in Ohio
Which may not mean much but it is one main reason I purchased a TSX over a TL
Also, the TL and TSX just do certain things better than the other which will attract different segments of the market. Either way I don't think you can go wrong with either choice.![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
TL= manufactured in Ohio
Which may not mean much but it is one main reason I purchased a TSX over a TL
Also, the TL and TSX just do certain things better than the other which will attract different segments of the market. Either way I don't think you can go wrong with either choice.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#109
I agree with the sentiment though, I don't think Japan built a long standing reputation for quality workmanship and reliability without the help of the workers themselves, and even though the corperation might have a foot in Ohio and Canada, the Japanese labor is still in Japan.
#110
Originally Posted by dank2hydro
But am I missing something? Why do SOME people assume that the higher cost car is better for you no matter what? If some people can be satisfied with a $30,000 car why hate on them because you have a $40,000 car. I never get that and I see that a lot on this and other forums. Sorry, just had to say it. ![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
#111
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Originally Posted by dank2hydro
But am I missing something? Why do SOME people assume that the higher cost car is better for you no matter what? If some people can be satisfied with a $30,000 car why hate on them because you have a $40,000 car. I never get that and I see that a lot on this and other forums. Sorry, just had to say it. ![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
Originally Posted by vitocorleone
It's the (ignorant, self-centered, egotistical, narrow-minded) American Way, that's why.
+1 to both of you... glad I'm not the only one to think that.
well put
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