tsx vs tls
07-09-2007, 08:44 PM
#41
Originally Posted by puma0504
I also agree with some of your points. Like I said, the TSX is a fine car and a fun car to throw around. In fact, the engine and the way it drives is fantastic for a 4 banger. However, you are telling me that car enthusiasts would pick a tsx over a TL-S? Both care are FWD, so thats a wash. If your camparing stock vs stock, the TL-S has brembo brakes, paddle shifters, a revised sporty suspension, a fantastic V6 engine, way more power(yes, it really does matter) it out classes the TSX in almost every performance category. And guess what, its SUPPOSED to. Am I missing something here? Are you really telling me the tsx engine, suspension whatever etc is that much more performance oriented then the TL-S? Again, the tsx drives great, but what is this factor that you talking about that makes the TSX a better performing car?
Again, I stand by my original statement, ask 100 random Enthusiasts from a car show or whatever, It would be no contest. I would bet money on it. Would you?
Again, I stand by my original statement, ask 100 random Enthusiasts from a car show or whatever, It would be no contest. I would bet money on it. Would you?
But again, numbers and parts alone do not a great car make. There is a reason why the Mazda Miata is highly regarded amongst the enthusiast community as being one of the all-time best sports cars ever built.
The TL-S may be a fine car in its own right, but there are characteristics that it possesses that make it less desirable to someone looking for an engaging driving experience. Torque steer, however little, can be irritating when trying to lay power down on a corner exit. Weight, no matter how little, can be felt by a trained and experienced driver.
So again, if you value power, then great, get the car you enjoy. But there is something that numbers alone cannot justify that separates good cars and great cars.
07-09-2007, 09:28 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by puma0504
I also agree with some of your points. Like I said, the TSX is a fine car and a fun car to throw around. In fact, the engine and the way it drives is fantastic for a 4 banger. However, you are telling me that car enthusiasts would pick a tsx over a TL-S? Both care are FWD, so thats a wash. If your camparing stock vs stock, the TL-S has brembo brakes, paddle shifters, a revised sporty suspension, a fantastic V6 engine, way more power(yes, it really does matter) it out classes the TSX in almost every performance category. And guess what, its SUPPOSED to. Am I missing something here? Are you really telling me the tsx engine, suspension whatever etc is that much more performance oriented then the TL-S? Again, the tsx drives great, but what is this factor that you talking about that makes the TSX a better performing car?
Again, I stand by my original statement, ask 100 random Enthusiasts from a car show or whatever, It would be no contest. I would bet money on it. Would you?
Again, I stand by my original statement, ask 100 random Enthusiasts from a car show or whatever, It would be no contest. I would bet money on it. Would you?
By your definition, the more power, the better right? Let's see: why isn't the Dodge Hemi or Camaro SS with the LS1 motor considered great designs? They both have gobs of torque and will weigh down any portion of your chassis.
To me, a motor is like a fine crafted watch. If you've read any of my first posts when the specs of the TL-S were initially released, you'll see I was very dissapointed with Honda's decision to simply shoe-horn the RL's motor. The RL's power was the whole reason Honda had to re-examine using FWD and eventually developed SH-AWD.
Honda is clearly capable of giving us a "true type-S," or even Type-R for that matter. Call me picky, but the same company that designed the Integra Type-R, NSX-R, and S2000 is clearly capable of giving us more than a transplanted motor intended for an AWD chassis with Brembo brakes.
A true Honda performance trim would've had 3.0 liters of displacement, an 8000 RPM redline, TWO cams, iVTEC, making over 300 horsepower NA while obtaining 27mpg. However, I'm sure Honda wasn't willing to take that risk because the price tag would've been nearly $50k, which is a price point consumers won't pay for a Honda product, as evidenced by the sluggish RL sales.
As far as the beauty of the TSX chassis and motor goes, I don't have time to explain in detail. Simply visit the K20a.org boards and check out Realtime's TSX and you'll see what the big deal is. This motor and chassis really becomes alive when the training wheels are taken off.
07-09-2007, 11:06 PM
#43
Drifting
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Hmm... so basically... most of you guys are saying that if i'm a true enthusiast and i enjoy the way the tsx drives as far as the "sportiness" goes, then i should keep the TSX? That was also another option. I was thinking of either modding the TSX with more HP and better handling, or upgrading to the TLs. I figured with the TSX i could keep the best of what i liked about it, and by modding it i could get more power and etc...
However... there aren't many of those large mods for the 05 AT. There's no hondata, there's no comptech SC etc...
However... there aren't many of those large mods for the 05 AT. There's no hondata, there's no comptech SC etc...
07-09-2007, 11:34 PM
#44
Originally Posted by Alin10123
Hmm... so basically... most of you guys are saying that if i'm a true enthusiast and i enjoy the way the tsx drives as far as the "sportiness" goes, then i should keep the TSX? That was also another option. I was thinking of either modding the TSX with more HP and better handling, or upgrading to the TLs. I figured with the TSX i could keep the best of what i liked about it, and by modding it i could get more power and etc...
However... there aren't many of those large mods for the 05 AT. There's no hondata, there's no comptech SC etc...
However... there aren't many of those large mods for the 05 AT. There's no hondata, there's no comptech SC etc...
you can simply do ecu swap like myself and few others.
i had tsx for 2.5yrs and recently traded in for tl-s last month. just installed tein h-tech and progress rsb today. it handles close to tsx now.
07-09-2007, 11:48 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by minkl81
you can simply do ecu swap like myself and few others.
i had tsx for 2.5yrs and recently traded in for tl-s last month. just installed tein h-tech and progress rsb today. it handles close to tsx now.
i had tsx for 2.5yrs and recently traded in for tl-s last month. just installed tein h-tech and progress rsb today. it handles close to tsx now.
07-10-2007, 12:36 AM
#46
I drovea TL-S while service @ McDavid Acura was tinkering with my 04 TSX. I must say that the TL-S is awesome, smooth, refined, and all around more than my TSX. However, I agree with others that the handling is much more fun on the TSX and I personally enjoy the hell out of winding out the 4 banger. Plus the TSX is much cheaper and easier to mod and for me that is fun to turn a wrench on simple mods every few weeks. To each his own.
07-10-2007, 01:03 AM
#47
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TL's handling... isn't that great but it's skidpad g is rated a few decimals higher than a TSX. Steering feel I utterly hate on the TL and the interior panels some aren't up to the quality of the TSX.
Although the door thud is nicer and the extra room and some amenities are great. And the v6 sound and power... which was solved by an injen intake lol
Although the door thud is nicer and the extra room and some amenities are great. And the v6 sound and power... which was solved by an injen intake lol
07-10-2007, 01:09 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Ask a true enthusiast if they would prefer a Mazda Miata or an SL55 and guarantee you that the Miata will win more often than the SL. The reason is that the Miata is smaller, lighter, and more tossable. It comes with a truly rewarding driving experience and is exceptionally well balanced with neutral handling characteristics. Yes, the SL55 makes nearly 4 times the horsepower, has substantially better grip numbers on the skid pad, and comes with giant brakes and a phenomenal motor.
But again, numbers and parts alone do not a great car make. There is a reason why the Mazda Miata is highly regarded amongst the enthusiast community as being one of the all-time best sports cars ever built.
The TL-S may be a fine car in its own right, but there are characteristics that it possesses that make it less desirable to someone looking for an engaging driving experience. Torque steer, however little, can be irritating when trying to lay power down on a corner exit. Weight, no matter how little, can be felt by a trained and experienced driver.
So again, if you value power, then great, get the car you enjoy. But there is something that numbers alone cannot justify that separates good cars and great cars.
But again, numbers and parts alone do not a great car make. There is a reason why the Mazda Miata is highly regarded amongst the enthusiast community as being one of the all-time best sports cars ever built.
The TL-S may be a fine car in its own right, but there are characteristics that it possesses that make it less desirable to someone looking for an engaging driving experience. Torque steer, however little, can be irritating when trying to lay power down on a corner exit. Weight, no matter how little, can be felt by a trained and experienced driver.
So again, if you value power, then great, get the car you enjoy. But there is something that numbers alone cannot justify that separates good cars and great cars.
But personally, call me a non-enthusiast, but give me a type-s over a tsx and a SL55 over a miata any day
Peace.
07-10-2007, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by waTSX
I'm crazy? Who the hell are you n00b? If your definition of a sporty car starts and ends with horsepower, then you're missing out on a lot of fun.
When it comes to comparing the two models in question, the TSX has more of what a driving enthusiast want, and that's tossability, a fun, high-revving engine, a great gearbox and sharp handling. That doesn't make the TL bad, just not as fun to drive. The TSX is a better balanced car.
When it comes to comparing the two models in question, the TSX has more of what a driving enthusiast want, and that's tossability, a fun, high-revving engine, a great gearbox and sharp handling. That doesn't make the TL bad, just not as fun to drive. The TSX is a better balanced car.
07-10-2007, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by puma0504
I also agree with some of your points. Like I said, the TSX is a fine car and a fun car to throw around. In fact, the engine and the way it drives is fantastic for a 4 banger. However, you are telling me that car enthusiasts would pick a tsx over a TL-S? Both care are FWD, so thats a wash. If your camparing stock vs stock, the TL-S has brembo brakes, paddle shifters, a revised sporty suspension, a fantastic V6 engine, way more power(yes, it really does matter) it out classes the TSX in almost every performance category. And guess what, its SUPPOSED to. Am I missing something here? Are you really telling me the tsx engine, suspension whatever etc is that much more performance oriented then the TL-S? Again, the tsx drives great, but what is this factor that you talking about that makes the TSX a better performing car?
Again, I stand by my original statement, ask 100 random Enthusiasts from a car show or whatever, It would be no contest. I would bet money on it. Would you?
Again, I stand by my original statement, ask 100 random Enthusiasts from a car show or whatever, It would be no contest. I would bet money on it. Would you?
07-10-2007, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Ask a true enthusiast if they would prefer a Mazda Miata or an SL55 and guarantee you that the Miata will win more often than the SL. The reason is that the Miata is smaller, lighter, and more tossable. It comes with a truly rewarding driving experience and is exceptionally well balanced with neutral handling characteristics. Yes, the SL55 makes nearly 4 times the horsepower, has substantially better grip numbers on the skid pad, and comes with giant brakes and a phenomenal motor.
But again, numbers and parts alone do not a great car make. There is a reason why the Mazda Miata is highly regarded amongst the enthusiast community as being one of the all-time best sports cars ever built.
The TL-S may be a fine car in its own right, but there are characteristics that it possesses that make it less desirable to someone looking for an engaging driving experience. Torque steer, however little, can be irritating when trying to lay power down on a corner exit. Weight, no matter how little, can be felt by a trained and experienced driver.
So again, if you value power, then great, get the car you enjoy. But there is something that numbers alone cannot justify that separates good cars and great cars.
But again, numbers and parts alone do not a great car make. There is a reason why the Mazda Miata is highly regarded amongst the enthusiast community as being one of the all-time best sports cars ever built.
The TL-S may be a fine car in its own right, but there are characteristics that it possesses that make it less desirable to someone looking for an engaging driving experience. Torque steer, however little, can be irritating when trying to lay power down on a corner exit. Weight, no matter how little, can be felt by a trained and experienced driver.
So again, if you value power, then great, get the car you enjoy. But there is something that numbers alone cannot justify that separates good cars and great cars.
Haahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahha. A MIATA!!! WTF
07-10-2007, 03:56 AM
#53
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Originally Posted by badstsx
Well Im not the one whos 45 and driving a TSX. I just traded my tsx for a TL-S 6 speed and in my opinion I cant even compare the two.
07-10-2007, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Alin10123
I appreciate the opinions. But why bash him because of his age? What's wrong with driving a tsx at 45? Please lets keep this thread civil otherwise the mods might lock it. If that happens, nobody benefits.
07-10-2007, 07:29 AM
#56
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Originally Posted by Alin10123
I appreciate the opinions. But why bash him because of his age? What's wrong with driving a tsx at 45? Please lets keep this thread civil otherwise the mods might lock it. If that happens, nobody benefits.
A 20 year old who's Mommy and Daddy just bought him a TL-S is gloating about it.
Keep it civil.
07-10-2007, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Ask a true enthusiast if they would prefer a Mazda Miata or an SL55 and guarantee you that the Miata will win more often than the SL. The reason is that the Miata is smaller, lighter, and more tossable. It comes with a truly rewarding driving experience and is exceptionally well balanced with neutral handling characteristics. Yes, the SL55 makes nearly 4 times the horsepower, has substantially better grip numbers on the skid pad, and comes with giant brakes and a phenomenal motor.
But again, numbers and parts alone do not a great car make. There is a reason why the Mazda Miata is highly regarded amongst the enthusiast community as being one of the all-time best sports cars ever built.
The TL-S may be a fine car in its own right, but there are characteristics that it possesses that make it less desirable to someone looking for an engaging driving experience. Torque steer, however little, can be irritating when trying to lay power down on a corner exit. Weight, no matter how little, can be felt by a trained and experienced driver.
So again, if you value power, then great, get the car you enjoy. But there is something that numbers alone cannot justify that separates good cars and great cars.
But again, numbers and parts alone do not a great car make. There is a reason why the Mazda Miata is highly regarded amongst the enthusiast community as being one of the all-time best sports cars ever built.
The TL-S may be a fine car in its own right, but there are characteristics that it possesses that make it less desirable to someone looking for an engaging driving experience. Torque steer, however little, can be irritating when trying to lay power down on a corner exit. Weight, no matter how little, can be felt by a trained and experienced driver.
So again, if you value power, then great, get the car you enjoy. But there is something that numbers alone cannot justify that separates good cars and great cars.
I agree. So do what I did, own a Miata and a TL-S!!!!
I have previously owned a TSX, and I can tell you the TL-S is a huge upgrade in most areas, including price. The TSX is a great value, very fun to drive, and I love the interior layout. BUT, the TSX is very slow in city/suburban driving where low-end torque is more usefull. I got tired of having to wind out the TSX to have a fun driving experience, it is just not practical. The TL-S allows you to have fun with much less effort.
07-10-2007, 07:57 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by Black_6spd
You're missing the point completely. Power doesn't necessarily equal sporty.
Besides, the Integra Type R is "only" a four banger...
The S2000 is "only" a four banger...
I guess both of those aint sports cars by your definition?
Besides, the Integra Type R is "only" a four banger...
The S2000 is "only" a four banger...
I guess both of those aint sports cars by your definition?
07-10-2007, 08:21 AM
#59
Originally Posted by CL Platano
How can you even think about putting the TSX in the same sentence as Type R or S2000..The TSX is not a sports car its a luxury sedan. If someone is a driving enthusiast they are not looking into a TSX they would be looking into a BMW..Why in 2007 do we still have these useless TSX vs TL debates, I think they get more crazy every thread.
And this is not a discussion about sports cars. This is a discussion about comparing two particular cars. The examples that have been used are simply to illustrate a point.
07-10-2007, 08:39 AM
#60
Originally Posted by CL Platano
How can you even think about putting the TSX in the same sentence as Type R or S2000..The TSX is not a sports car its a luxury sedan. If someone is a driving enthusiast they are not looking into a TSX they would be looking into a BMW..Why in 2007 do we still have these useless TSX vs TL debates, I think they get more crazy every thread.
Seriously, the TL is not "all that" for everyone and several chose the TSX over BMW 32x's as well. To this day I'd buy the TSX over a TL, and I'd buy something else over a TL-S as it just didn't do it for me. THIS is why we have these discussions - people are different.
07-10-2007, 09:00 AM
#61
Tristate ViP Crew
The TL isn't all that never said it was in fact I don't like driving the 3G TL and I have one. I also don't like driving the TSX for the exact reason Saw1 said but at the end of the day rather have the TL
07-10-2007, 09:21 AM
#62
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Originally Posted by badstsx
Haahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahha. A MIATA!!! WTF
Yea a Mita. I would take mine over anything short of a Porche.
Shot with Canon PowerShot S200 at 2007-07-10
07-10-2007, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by badstsx
Well Im not the one whos 45 and driving a TSX. I just traded my tsx for a TL-S 6 speed and in my opinion I cant even compare the two.
Please explain what age had to do with anything ever discussed on this forum? Based on your recent spate of posts, you're really off to a flying start at AZ 
07-10-2007, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by badstsx
Its not because hes 45 and driving a tsx but he has nothing better to do and call people noobs. kinda immature.
07-10-2007, 10:38 AM
#67
I drive a TSX and have friends who drive the TL/G35/IS/3-series etc. Even just from experiencing those cars as a passenger, I can honestly say that if I were to upgrade from the TSX to a more expensive sedan, I will not be staying in the Acura family. Someone said this before me: With more power, I'll looking for a RWD/AWD car.
For the price of a TL-S, I'd be more interested in the new G35 or pay a little more for the IS350/335i. Now if the next-gen TSX/TL comes in SH-AWD though, it might be a different story.
My Canadian
Worth more than you think now! 
For the price of a TL-S, I'd be more interested in the new G35 or pay a little more for the IS350/335i. Now if the next-gen TSX/TL comes in SH-AWD though, it might be a different story.
My Canadian
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07-10-2007, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dom
A 20 year old who's Mommy and Daddy just bought him a TL-S is gloating about it.
Keep it civil.
07-10-2007, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by waTSX
Please explain what age had to do with anything ever discussed on this forum? Based on your recent spate of posts, you're really off to a flying start at AZ
07-10-2007, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by CL Platano
How can you even think about putting the TSX in the same sentence as Type R or S2000..The TSX is not a sports car its a luxury sedan. If someone is a driving enthusiast they are not looking into a TSX they would be looking into a BMW..Why in 2007 do we still have these useless TSX vs TL debates, I think they get more crazy every thread.
To your point, I don't think the TSX is either. It's definately not a "sports car" or a luxury sedan. I simply think it does a good job of imitating both.
And yes, the TSX does belong in the same breath as the S2000 and ITR. I'm sure you're quite aware of the N/A potential of the K24A2 motor and have seen what it can do. The big gripe I have (not directed at you) is with the TL owners who take a TSX 5AT loaner for 2 hours and automatically claim that its completely useless. Imagine if the S2000 had a long-geared 5AT tranny that gobbled up power? What if the ITR had an auto tranny as well that didn't cater toward its high revving engine? Would that be enough to assume the 6MT is a dog?
Additionally, I really think that if the S2000 was available as a loaner to some TL or even RL owners, they would complain "it doesn't have enough power." They are simply VERY different cars that are designed to be driven to their limits.
Again I'm not singling you out -- I read your posts on other threads and you're not one of the "haters" of the TSX. It seems you simply have a likeness for Acuras in general.
Again, your preference of the TL or even TL-S is more reflective of the general public that perceives the TL as an upgrade, and I can understand that. However, what's so hard to understand about the minority prefering the high-revving K24A2 engine over a SOHC V6?
07-10-2007, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by badstsx
All Im saying is the buyeres for the tsx are usually between the ages of teens to mid 30's
07-10-2007, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by dom
A 20 year old who's Mommy and Daddy just bought him a TL-S is gloating about it.
Keep it civil.
07-10-2007, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by badstsx
LOL. Actully I bought my own car and Im proably more sucessfull than you will ever be.
