tdottsx

Well today was a cold one in Toronto so i decided to start to get ready for winter. I brought my car to my mechanic for an oil change and was thinking of doing synthetic but he as well as my Acura dealership told me not to because it is not worth the price difference, especially in a 4 cylinder Honda engine synthetic is not needed. they told me as long as you get an oil change every 5000 km(3000 miles) it will make no difference. my car gets pretty bad fuel economy so i was hoping maybe synthetic would help somewhat, seeing as it is winter and my car will be idling for longer to warm up I'm going to get even worse fuel economy, this brings me to my question. Is it bad to leave the car idled for a few minutes to warm up. I bought a compustar alarm/starter last year and some people are telling me its worse for your engine to let it sit and idle as apposed to driving it and letting it warm up. i just hate getting into my car and driving for 2 min. before i can put the heat on.

Also thinking of using "Lucas Fuel Treatment" which is apparently suppose to clean out your lines and give you better MPG. my car only has 25 000 km(15 000 miles). has any one tried this stuff? my mechanic told me its not good to use any of these fuel additives and if I'm really having bad fuel economy go by the dealership and tell them to check out the sensors. He said that 400 km to the tank(250 miles), which is what I'm getting now, is far too low. I've also stopped pushing it to see the best mpg i can get it stays at 400 km.(100 % city)

Last topic undercoating. I'll make this short. Is it worth it? it cost's about $100.

If any one has any tips for getting ready for winter please do share...

JimHolloman

I recommend letting the engine warm up, at idle, for 3-5 mins. in cold weather (around 3 mins. above 32 degrees F and 5 mins. below 32 degrees F). This allows the engine to reach operating temperature and to reduce "hot spots" -- or uneven temperatures within the engine. Since metal expands with temperature; having some spots in the engine very hot, and some spots in the engine very cold, changes the fit and may slightly increase the wear on some of the components (I don't know if it has ever been measured, but think of a "new engine" vs an engine that has been broken in). Furthermore, the CAT does not start working until it is hot. A hot engine is also more efficient than a cold engine -- providing that it is not too hot.

The engine uses little fuel at idle, so it will have almost no effect on gas mileage. You get less gas mileage in the winter primarily because the air is thicker and thus it creates more drag. Because the air is thicker, you also get a little more power from the engine to offset the additional drag (nature's form of turbo charging). Also, the engine is less efficient due to colder temperatures -- if you don't allow it to warm up.

I have never heard anyone say that it is detrimental to allow a car engine to warm up. I know that pilots are not supposed to leave the ground until the engine oil (a dry sump is used) has reached operating temperature.

JimHolloman

I would not use fuel additives unless you wish to:

1) Clean fuel injectors. Could be done about once a year.
2) Remove water from the gasoline -- should be done only when you get gasoline with some water in it -- which is very rare these days.

Additives for other purposes are generally not helpful.

LuvMyTSX

From what I've read on this site and some other places, as well as on the news, it is best to start driving immediately, but slowly (easy on gas, etc.), until it reaches operating temp, and not let your car idle.

Red@8

I had a compustar hooked up to my tsx in saskatoon. Its great to fire it up from the house and let it idle and "warm up" for 5 minutes in -40C weather, trust me i know. I remember the screen in the car would not even work properly for the first little while. But if your problem is with fuel economy this will absolutely decimate your fuel economy. In winter with the tsx I had up there I was barely getting 400km (often a little less) to the tank and that was with me babying it everywhere and driving as efficiently as possible. Fuel economy in winter is super hard to match to your summer numbers. Even if you get in it and drive slow until it warms up you are not going to get much better. It will be better than letting it idle though, thats for sure. The most I would idle is 30 seconds and then start driving slowly like LuvMyTSX said. If you have a short stop and go commute to whereever it is you are going then you may be stuck with the 400km to the tank you are getting now.

Since I moved out to the east where the winter is laughable compared to the praries I rarely get less than 500km to the tank (summer or "winter"). Thats with 90% city (no freeway) driving. BUt the drives here are longer than in saskatoon and calgary so its easier to get the car warmed up (lets not forget the temp either) and not have as much stop and go.

dereksmalls

Get a block heater. It's by far the best way to have your car warm up faster. The car will start more easily (with less wear), and it will at its normal operating temperature really quickly. You can get a timer and set it so that you're only powering the block heater for 1 or 2 hours before you leave every day.

Undercoating is controversial. Some people like it, some don't care for it. In Ontario and Quebec where salt is used heavily it would be worth it. I had a Gen6 Civic with the undercoating and the underbody was perfect even after 9 Quebec/Ontario winters...too bad the brake calipers and exhaust manifold didn't fare as well. Just make sure you get it done at a reputable shop who know what they're doing.

JimHolloman

Since you are in a cold climate, I second the recommendation regarding a block heater.

The first link below ought to be of interest to you since it appears to be government related:

From Natural Resources, Canada:
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/transportatio...-up.cfm?attr=8

From Yahoo answers:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0092723AAvUvkG

From car talk:
http://action.publicbroadcasting.net...st/669811.page

Based upon the current articles, I will reduce my recommendation from 3-5 minutes to to 1-3 minutes; depending upon the ambient temperature. As you can see, some experts recommend only 20-30 seconds.

I see the reasoning behind both short, and very short, warm up periods. For my car, I will be using 1-3 minutes this Winter.

Red@8

Getting a block heater is great, but out east i have noticed they dont have the infrastructure to facilitate pluging in cars like we had out west. By this i mean lots of apartments, outdoor parking lots, etc dont have wired stalls. This of course depends on where the op lives (house/apartment/etc)

I am also curious about the use of a blockheater to "warm up" a car. Now correct me if i am wrong here. Doesnt a block heater keep the block at a certain temp so that it is able to start in cold temperatures? I was not aware that the block heater enables the car to warm up any quicker than normal!?!? I never noticed my cars warming up quicker becuase i had them plugged in. Am I misunderstanding something here?

tdottsx

a block heater in theory is a good idea but its going to cost at least $40-50 to buy and another $50-75 to install, if i didn't have my starter already i would buy it. from what i have been reading its good just to let your car start for 2-3 min...and ye red@8 i know what you mean when the screen doesn't display correctly because its to cold...i gotta move to L.A. no1 has to worry about that down there. lol

dereksmalls

Good point about the infrastructure part. We lived in a townhouse in Montreal where the actually REMOVED the electrical outlet in our parking areas, so we also had to resort to a remote starter.

When starting your car cold, keep in mind that there is more wear on your engine, mostly because the oil is thicker and will take longer to circulate nicely. So starting an engine has been warmed by a block heater is actually better for it.

The block heater will keep your engine block warm, which also keeps engine coolant warm and helps it warm up faster. Since this is what the car uses to heat the inside of your car, you should notice that warm air will blowing in from the vents earlier, in addition to the engine coolant reaching its normal operating temperature earlier.

Having said all that, a block heater is really only good for temps of -10degC (14degF) and lower.

curls

My personal experience:

- 400 km/tank is really low. Either you floor it at every chance, or you simply drive the worst stop-n-go traffic I've seen. Try adjusting driving habits before throwing money around. Lucas and any other fuel treatments are really unnecessary if you are using 91 octane fuel from a good gas station (Petro-Canada, for instance, has good cleaning additives in their 89 and 91 octane fuels).

- Change your oil every 8000 km / 5000 miles... no sooner as its wasteful. Synthetic won't necessarily help with your fuel economy but it could be worth using in your car if you do so much city driving, which is hard on oil. Personally I drive 60/40 cty/hwy, use synthetic (Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30), Honda OEM filters, and this has been a great combination for me and has been proven on many reutable oil sites (bobistheoilguy.com for example).

- I rustproof my car bi-annually (every 2 years) in the fall / early winter. I used to go to Metropolitan which is a Quebec and eastern Ontario company, but this year went with Krown upon MANY recommendations, and am happy with their job on my car and my wifes'. It gets into the areas that retain moisture, displaces it, and really does work. A few friends and family members have used various rustproofing companies on their cars and some have NO signs of rust and are well over 15 years old. Being in Toronto, I would recommend it because like Ottawa, they use a lot of salt and this promotes premature rust of panels, seizing of bolts, etc.

Audioserf

I don't warm the TSX up, but until it reaches operating temperature I'm easy on the throttle and shift by 3k RPM. It's worked for me the last couple of years.

ck123

4 cylinders benefit from synthetic as well, dont let them tell you otherwise. Synthetic is thinner on start up and will be able to get into those tiny gaps better than conventional which will help with start up where roughly 90% of your engine wear occurs. Fuel injection cleaner is useless, i wasted 7 bucks on some gumout stuff on my integra and did nothing. Your car DOES NOT need it, but if you insist i hear some good things about Chevron with techron fuel cleaner.

ahh warming up an engine....for me, I always warm up my car before going, just to make sure the engine is properly lubricated even tho this takes few seconds. Many argue you dont have to and its true, for me its just a personal preference. I do also because it tends to drive smoother when its cold if you let it warm up for a minute or two.

chuson

You need to change your mechanic... lol

I let the car warm up @ least 3mins in winter, have a cig and good to go. If you are in a hurry, don't drive hard in the first couple mins until it's fully warm up.

If you worry about winters, grab a set of winter tires first.

tdottsx

but thats without me even pushing it. im not the only tsx driver to get it either. i have a friend with a tsx and hes getting the same thingdoing 100% city. and other guys on the forums have reported the same thing. i have to bring my car to the dealer to get a couple problems fixed( skirt package comming off slightly, bumper looks like its not flush with lights, and radio button is jammed) im going to ask them to check out my sensors, maybes somethings wrong there. if not im gunna have to live with shitty fuel economy.

nbtx

Does this mean algore is/was wrong about "global warming" ??

R.Tosh

I undercoat every new Toyota for the dealership in town, and I would say it's worth it to get done in the long run. Not only does it cover up all that exposed metal under your car, but it also soundproofs it a bit too. It's can also be a good selling feature. I haven't done mine yet but I will soon.

Your MPG is only low due to the way you drive. If your just in the City then 400-500km is typical. I get around 625km until the fuel light comes on(90% hwy) but has recently dropped to 550 since I bought my intake haha.

And remember, put some good Winter tires on your car! I just bought some new Toyo Observes

JimHolloman

How much weight does the undercoating add? And, what would I expect to pay to get my car undercoated?

R.Tosh

Umm I'm not sure how much weight it adds. I'd say less than 10 lbs. Its very minimal. I charge $190 for a car, and $230 for a pickup or large SUV. Toyota charges $285 to the customer (every style of vehicle). $100 for an undercoat is very cheap.

curls

Do you spray a wax-based product? IMO that doesn't work (actually it's been proven to trap moisture which is double bad!).

The only kind I use and trust is the very thin mineral-oil based mist/fluid that Krown and Metropolitan use -- it creeps like crazy into every nook and cranny and displaces moisture.

It might add 5-8 lbs to a vehicle - not worth mentioning even.

Krown and Metropolitan both charge about $100-$110/vehicle during peak season (right now). Usually $10-$20 less in the spring/summer.

R.Tosh

I dont know what it is. Its just generic undercoat from..first canadian auto protection...or something like that? All the dealers use the same stuff.

losothefatso

I don't know if this is bad for the car but sometimes I'll give it a little gas to like 1500-2000rpm a few times and idle 1-2 mins then start driving in the morning.

R.Tosh

I wouldn't say its bad. Its only bad when you redline a cold engine. But why don't you just start it up and let it idle a few minutes before you start driving like I do. Well I'm guessing you might live in a place where crime might be an issue..haha. get a remote start or something

djflex167

i was reading everyone's post in here and couldn't see a answer so i'm gonna ask, so in winter lets say its 23 degrees or so, should i really warm for like 3 to 5 mins or just turn it on and go slowly? i noticed some people do and others don't so i don't know if this is something require to do or just personal preference. any imput would be appreciated!

2K6TSX

I do not warm up the tsx much. I turn it on, let it sit for about 25-30 seconds and then drive slowly, keeping the rpm below 3k for sure. I've heard that idling the car is the worst thing you can do to your engine, plus you can get a ticket for it in Toronto, and it's bad for gas mileage. As for your 400km to a tank, I think that's terrible. Do you use 91 octane or regular? That will make a big difference. I have not gotten less than 550 to a tank since I bought the car, recently I've been using Shell and I'm getting between 600-650/tank. I do not drive too hard, but I do rev it up every once in a while (only when the engine is fully warmed). I suggest you also try changing the gas, I used to use Esso and it was good, but Shell seems better.

400, even my old car, a 2003 Nissan Maxima, modified, 3.5L V6 6speed never got as low as 400km/tank, that was closer to 450-500 which was not impressive. The car took premium but had a much bigger gas tank.

I think the fuel additives are a complete waste, your car is not old at all, I do not see any need for it. Try adjusting driving habits and the brand of gas.

In terms of rustproofing, I'm a little worried about them drilling into my car and the dripping that will last a couple of days, but I do plan on going to Krown next week. An alternative is the dealership which charges about $600 with a lifetime warranty, but I don't think that's worth it IMHO.

tdottsx

i use petro canada 91 octane gas. maybe i will try sunoco or maybe shell see if that makes a difference. but i believe my main problem is that most of my commutes are less than 5 km (3 miles) so there's a lot of starting the engine and turning it off. i know that, that's my main problem. i drove to windsor, ontario from Toronto about 350km(240 miles) and i used up exactly half a tank. that's with all highway driving

LuvMyTSX

My commute is only 2 miles as well. My mpg suffers because of it. The engine just barely reaches operating temp when I'm pulling into the parking lot. I change the oil every 5k instead of 10k because of this.

Winter came early for me. Yesterday, we had a freak storm and ended up with 2 inches of snow instead of straight rain like the stupid weather people said.

R.Tosh

You don't drill holes anywhere in the car when rustproofing. As for the dripping, just use a rag and wipe it up. There are plenty of holes already there (bottom of doors, behind tail lights, behind the trunk carpet, etc)

curls

The best places do drill holes, otherwise it would be nearly impossible to get their spray wands into some panels on many cars.

Don't worry about the drilling -- they use liberal amounts of grease to get ANY moisture away from the hole, and plug it with plastic plugs. It would be about the last area that rust would attack.

losothefatso

Your car warms up faster when you drive. Today I warmed it up in for about a minute because I thought I was going to be late. Just never went over 3000 rpm and it got to the "idle" temperature pretty quickly and it's been around 50 degrees or so in Seattle.