siocontl

I will be going to the dealer next week to purchase my new TSX. I'm trying to educate myself as to what kind of tricks/hidden agenda the dealer might have that will make me pay more than what price we have already agreed on. For sure, they're going to persuade me to buy some extras (for example, extended warranty?) and other car accessories.

Could you help me what "tricks" I can expect from the dealer so that I can respond appropriately? I'm already stretching my budget so i don't any other expenses!

Your help is greatly appreciated!

mickey513

If you don't feel comfortable.....WALK. And don't sign ANYTHING until you fread the paperwork throughly...

kak1154

Look through the ticket to make sure there is nothing extra added. If you didn't agree on wheel locks, splash guards, etc., make sure they aren't added on there. (If they are and you say you don't want them, the dealer will probably just give them to you free because they're already on the car.)

They will try to sell you an extended warrantee, road hazard warrantee, paint repair package, simonize, etc. In my case, it was the financing guy who was trying to talk me into all this stuff, not the salesman.

Should be pretty straightforward, don't pay for anything you don't want.

kball

If you're trading in your car, lots of dealers like to keep your keys making it harder to walk away from negotiating.

Get your keys back before hand so you can up and leave if you want.

kak1154

Nah, let 'em keep the keys. That way they'll know you're serious about leaving when you ask for your keys back. Then they'll deal.

Edit: Ignore this if you've already agreed on a price, I guess.

siocontl

Thanks guys for your invaluable advice so far.

My friend told me that the salesman is your friend (that is, he's trying to be friendly) and another guy will be your enemy (he's the one I should avoid because he will pressure me to buy extra things which are not included in the initial negotiation).

In my case, I already know the guy that I should avoid at any cost! I've never seen a guy who uses pressure tactic at its highest level more than him! I left the Acura dealer so drained and exhausted! I wish I could tell the name of the dealer but I won't because I don't because I don't know if that's allowed in this forum.

Thanks.

Yui

Even if you've "agreed" on a price they may still ask for more money. That's what happened with me. I was told that he had "made an honest mistake" and not figured the $500 deposit into the final numbers and so he was losing that money. I knew that the numbers had been very clear for the past month that I'd been dealing with him, and that I'd already agreed to a trade-in value lower than what I was hoping for, so I said no and asked for my deposit back. At this point he said he'd go talk to his manager for me and whaddya know, the rest of the deal goes through smothly.

It really helps to have a friend there, not someone who's also emotionally vested in getting the car, but just a friend you can count on to stick to your guns.

exexexex

ok,I think I may give you some of my thoughts here.
first of all,go to a less busier dealership.then,pretend that you aren't that interested in getting a TSX,that's important.If you show up at the dealership and tell the saleman"hey,I am here to buy the TSX today" then,you are 90% done to the salesguy as they would think that you are a "lay down". This will seriously affect your trade-in value and price negotiation.
Just walk into the dealership.pretend that you are just browsing,and see if any sales guy will try to approach.Then when he asks which car you would be interested in,just tell him like"o,I heard that Acura has a TSX which is not bad,is this the TSX ?" something like that.Calm yourself down first.Then during the "qualifying"process initiated by the salesman,telling him that you are actually planning to get a new car sooner or later,you don't know much about the market,just wanna find out what acura is offering right now.Likely the sales man would think"humm,this guy seems to be easy to deal with,I will try my best to close him on spot".
Wait for the salesman asks for the order,don't say it yourself.Let him initiate everything,like "let's go for a test drive,shall we?""Would you like a trade in apprasial sir?" something like that.Then u just cooperate.
After the test drive and apprasial.Some sales guys would say"wanna get one today sir?" or"Why not today,today seems to be a good day to get a new TSX!".At that time,don't show any expression on your face,just say things like"well,how much would you give me on my trade? Seems that you wanna a deal eh? Then,what can you do for me?" or like "errr,I still have something to check out,but,if you really can give me a smoky deal,I may make up my mind,who knows? show me some good numbers,please?"
If the sales in that dealership isn't that good at the moment or that week,the manager would be able to discount a good amount to satisfy you,however,still,it really depends on what deal is good deal to you,right?
if you are not in a hurry,shop a couple of dealerships and use the same or close technique,compare the numbers,then,give the lowest one a final offer,if they can do it,bingo,if not,your own call.
There aren't so many gimmicks around in the sales business these days,at least,not that many in the new car sales I would imagine. Just be patient,and show them that you aren't really on the TSX,you are not a "lay down".then I guess you may get a good deal.
Hummm,hope this will somehow helps a bit.If not,I will try to refresh my mind and write some more later on......

exexexex

be well prepared for pressure selling as well,ready to walk at any time.disregard what the salesman say,if you feel uncomfortable,just tell them you can come back another time and then leave.
the pressure selling is just a "technique"that some sales man use to attack those "lay downs" or "half lay downs".if you have a clear mind,you won't be pressured.Tell yourself,"I know what I want,but,they can't rip me off"

exexexex

extended warrenty,leather,paint protection,blah blah blah. If you don't need,then don't buy.If you need,grind the price down,at least 40%,then buy it.Since there's huge profit in those stuffs banking mangers sell you. Gap insurance might be a good idea though but it all depends.
don't give the sales guy a credit card to "get a deal that you want".Let them offer first,don't talk,just sit down and watch.If the sales guy says"I need your credit card sir,if I can get you this this number you asked,I will put this this amount on your credit card to seal the deal,and..........." Don't give him the card,just say"hey,I feel uncomfortable this way,you can have my handshake,I am straighforward as well,if you can get me the price,then you have the deal." Wait till he comes back with the number you like,then do the deal.
hummm,trying to think about some more,if so,I will post up.

exexexex

O,one more thing,don't talk to much,there is a rule for sales man"listen to the customer,and find any possible word out of their mouth to close them".Don't talk too much,just listen,and don't throw any number to them till you really think that's the bottom line.Actually,you can do a search,and throw them a low low ball number,and start from there.But,don't be shy to tell them a low ball number,if you tell them a very reasonable one,they might say"so,if I can get you this number,we have a deal today right?!" They you are locked up yourself......

siocontl

exexexex, thanks so much for your detailed account. I've experienced some of those pressure tactics that you metioned the first time I walked into the dealer's office! Your comment made me remember my stressful encounter with the manager (I was turned over by the salesman to the manager after his sales pitch!) I'm still trying to block that encounter from my memory! Thanks again!

TSXnOPKS

The salesperson will try to push you to pay MSRP down instead of invoice up. If you ask for a lower price on the TSX, then they ever so slight nudge the trade-in value down to compensate. Be sure to watch out for this and other overhead costs like the documentation fee. They will try to put a huge guilt trip on their "friend", "valued repeat customer", that your asking price would cause them to default on their utility payments. My reply was umm, you made tons of money on my last trade you sold for several grand that you said was worthless. You fooled me once, so stop and spare me the bad news.

The salesperson will take at LEAST 3 trips back and forth between your location and the head managers office door. Keep in mind what they want for documentation fees and tacked on crap pricing. For NAVI, just say "27800k FIRM" or buh-bye". That's what I demanded with protection package and refused to budge. I also came in with an indifferent attitude. I already had a perfectly running car and made no enthusiasm about any specific color combo, and that I was fine with going home without a deal. Its as simple as that. It's not the time to be polite and shy....be firm in what you want and get what you deserve.

gt0279a

Remember that the dealer has 4 major ways of making money off of you:

1. Price of the new Car
2. Trade in Value
3. Financing
4. Options/Accessories, etc.

Best route to go is negotaite your trade in value first. Once that is done, negotiate the new car price. At this point, they can assume you will finance or lease with them, and this is where they try to get you with the lease (money factor) or interest rate.

Very important about leasing w/ AHFC - you either qualify for the lease or you don't, there is only one rate per term (36, 48, etc.).

Many finance guys will say you magically qualify for a lower rate, if you buy an extended warranty, etc. This applies to finance rates as well. Your credit may get you a rate of 5%, they come back with 6%, and then say they can get you 5.5% if you buy xyz.

Always know your credit score and rates you can get at credit unions, capital one, etc. In many cases AHFC has similar or better rates, but it's good to have options.

Also, here are AHFC lease rates as of Jan 06:

Money Factors:
36 Month 0.00274 (multiply by 24 to get equivalent interest rate)
42 Month 0.00245
48 Month 0.00245

Hope that helps & Good luck.

gt0279a

Another tactic to watch out for is when they "switch" the numbers at the signing. (there is a name for this, but I forget)

Say you negotiate $27500 for a TSX and they give you $12000 for your trade. Well, the finance guys says something like "I can't show we are losing money on the new car, casue we're giving you such a good deal, so I adjusted the numbers to show were selling the car for $28500 and giving you $1300 for the trade."

Well, they basically moved $1000 around, and your getting the same exact deal, except, the next time you go back to that dealer to get your next car, or you tell a friend about it that is interested in a new car, you have no proof that you got a nice deal on the last one.

cambomonk

Im not very good at negotiating prices so what I did was obtain price quotes from multiple Acura dealers within the area. then take the lowest price quote and forward it to another dealer and ask them to beat the price. Keep doing it until the price is reasonable ($500 over invoice is a good deal).

This way, you can "walk" anytime without setting foot in the dealer. Did not deal with salesman. They are professional and will get the best of you if you are not strong enough to walk.

afax226

If your salesperson uses the good-cop-bad-cop routine on you, tell him/her that that is best (or worst) good-cop-bad-cop performance you have ever seen. There is absolutely no reason why your salesperson is your friend. The good-cop-bad-cop routine was just a negotiation tactic they learned from their training.

Secondly, do your home work. Find out what other people are paying in your area, present the data to your salesperson, and ask him/her to beat it. Knowledge is power.

Thirdly, determine your baseline and set four prices in your mind.
1) Deal breaker price - If the deal is $1 above this price, you walk.
2) Minimum acceptable price - This is the most you are willing to pay
3) Target price - This the price you shoot for.
4) Good deal - Sign the paper give the guy a kiss.

Also, show the salesperson you have researched on other cars and tell him/her what you like and dislike about the TSX and your other choices.

Good luck.
3)

jinxz0r

what will be my starting price for the 05 w/ navi and 3000 miles demo car..and what will be the best deal on it...

Jimmy T

1. If you can wait...purchase the car towards the end of the model year. I always try to purchase during the summer and have found salesmen are more willing to deal during that time. They need to clear their lots for the incomming crop of new cars in the fall.

2. Do your homework. Know the invoice price of the car. Call the dealer on the phone prior to walking in to the dealership and ask for all fees associated with purchasing a new car from them such as doc fees, destination charge, etc. Also figure out what the taxes will be for the car. In otherwords, know the out the door price for the car.

3. Let salemen know you're serious. I disagree on acting casual or not interested. Walk into the dealership. On a piece of paper break down all the fees, taxes, dealer profit ($300 - $500) and invoice price of the car. Total up everthing at the bottom and have you out the door price written down. Tell the salesman if he can give you that price, you will purchase the car today. If not, you will be leaving immediately for a dealer who can give you your listed price. Showing the salesman your research lets him know you are knowledgable about the product, and he won't be able to B.S. you.

4. Be ready to walk. When the salesman returns from his meeting with his manager, if the price is a dollar more than your list price, tell him you are sorry you couldn't make a deal today and walk.

5. If you can't make the deal, call back the next day and ask to speak to the salesman you dealt with. Ask him if the deal can still be worked out, at the price you requested. If not, then go to another dealer.

6. As far as purchasing the extras once a price has been agreed upon, a firm no is all it takes. Most of the stuff the sell you at that point isn't worth it.

I purchased an '05 CG TSX non-navi last June in this way. It took 10 minutes for the price to be agreed upon, and I got exactly the number I had written down. Nothing added on at any point and numbers were never switched. You have to remember that selling a car is a business. I think some people lose site of that fact because they are SO interested in getting a "good" price. Think of it as a "fair" price instead; fair for you and fair for the dealer.

t_in_maine

I have recently read an 8 chapter E Book from "The Motley Fools" regarding how to get the best price for a new car and the best price for your trade-in. I'll spare you the entire diatribe as it was about a two-day read, but one of the things I put into work was NEVER, EVER buy a car on the spot, meaning while at the dealership. It encourages you to do everything via fax. That way, the ball is in your court, and you're a lot less apt to cave into sales pressure. The tactic they advise is to fax your five closest dealerships and say: I will be buying this car (describe your model, color, options, etc), and I will be purchasing within 1 week (or two, or a month). Please fax me your best deal by 5:00 on Friday, (or whatever date you choose). That way they know that a) you're in charge and b) you WILL be buying a car. I you, or anyone, is interested in this e book, I can email you the link. It makes for very interesting reading.

Black_6spd

Wow. I can't believe how outdated some of the techniques have become. There are still people that negotiate in person?

Here's my simple (3) step process where you don't even have to leave home:
1. Go to AAA or Costco's website and fill out the online form for their "no haggle" price for the TSX of your choice.
2. Wait for the dealers to call you
3. Tell them to beat the no haggle price

You're done. Isn't the internet grand?

Sometimes, I even felt sorry for the ol' fashioned sales rep. I'll often see them hanging out in the parking lot while the internet sales / fleet manager is getting all the business. Many of the HATE carsdirect, Costco, and AAA. Some of them will even take cheap shots while you're waiting for finance with comments like "I could have got you a better deal." Yeah -- $10-$25 cheaper. Not worth it IMO.

Dirk Diggs

I'll try to help as much as I can here without being redundant...

With all do respect, exexexex, there are is a lot of truth in your advice, but a lot of it will make the buying process more tedious. I will elaborate.

The salesperson will try to push you to pay MSRP down instead of invoice up.

I always start invoice up...I would be insulted if I were a customer and a salesperson started at MSRP. This does not apply to certain vehicles (really hot/popular cars), and I don't think the TSX falls into this category based on deals I have seen on this forum.

If you ask for a lower price on the TSX, then they ever so slight nudge the trade-in value down to compensate.

This is referred to as a "trade roll-back" and is done mainly for dealer profit, however, most people I have seen aren't exactly forthcoming with their vehicle history or what may be wrong with it. I have saved myself a lot of grief when I get a ballpark and roll it back a bit, when the car gets appraised and several panels have been repainted or the check engine light is on. A lot of people, myself included, won't be able to tell when something is going bad, but you can bet the dealer will see it.

If I obtain a ballpark (before the car is driven and appraised) of $13,000, and roll it back to $12,000 (what I tell my customer) and dents, scratches, and mechanical defects are discovered upon appraisal, I am no worse for wear because I didn't initially tell the customer it was worth $13,000 when it is now worth less.

Be sure to watch out for this and other overhead costs like the documentation fee.

Doc fee pays for all of the paperwork we use, plus the salaries of the peeps who process it. Don't try to get your doc fee waived, because there are a lot of people involved with getting the vehicle reported sold, and getting registration and titles sent out.

The salesperson will take at LEAST 3 trips back and forth between your location and the head managers office door.

This is a myth. A good salesperson won't need to. A lot of the ease of the sales process resides on the customer side as well. If you are being reasonable, three trips won't be needed, and you'll have a quick transaction.

It's not the time to be polite and shy....be firm in what you want and get what you deserve.

True dat, but don't be rude either. We are human too, and we make 100% commission or a flat pay (mini-deal). At invoice pricing it is going to be a mini.

Actually,you can do a search,and throw them a low low ball number,and start from there.But,don't be shy to tell them a low ball number,if you tell them a very reasonable one,they might say"so,if I can get you this number,we have a deal today right?!" They you are locked up yourself......

You'll be making the deal harder than it needs to be this way. If you have your research with you (printouts), and you offer something reasonable, it should be quick. Remember the dealership has the car. I have never agreed with people asking dealerships to give them an offer.

In the latter half of your statement, you are referring to an "If" or "If I could, would you..." This is the MOST COMMON closing technique where your salesperson is asking you for a committment at a given number. If you are giving a reasonable offer that YOU are ok with, why would you be worried about "locking yourself up"? If you aren't cool with a given number, don't give one. If you are not ready to buy, you shouldn't be worried about getting locked in anyways.

Gap insurance might be a good idea though but it all depends.

If you are trading something in and you have a large payoff on it (where the payoff is more than the vehicle is worth) and you will be rolling this negative equity into the new vehicle, then GAP insurance is definitely worth it.

don't give the sales guy a credit card to "get a deal that you want".Let them offer first,don't talk,just sit down and watch.If the sales guy says"I need your credit card sir,if I can get you this this number you asked,I will put this this amount on your credit card to seal the deal,and..........." Don't give him the card,just say"hey,I feel uncomfortable this way,you can have my handshake,I am straighforward as well,if you can get me the price,then you have the deal." Wait till he comes back with the number you like,then do the deal.

What you are referring to here is what is known as earnest money. This will serve two purposes.

First...it shows that you ARE SINCERE/COMMITTED about your offer. Your salesperson will do nothing with your credit card/check/cash other than to submit your offer with it. The owner/sales manager is going to know he has a serious buyer this way. This will make things EASIER. We get people every day who get down to the numbers and pretend they will buy, only to take the numbers and think about it or shop them at other dealerships.

The second purpose (and I am being honest here) of earnest money is what some dealerships refer to as "glue", meaning it maintains control of your customer (keeps them there) and holds the deal together. Oftentimes, your earnest money can/will be used as a deposit or a down payment anyways, so it usually isn't a big deal. I do realize that some dealerships do not require this, or they don't require it of certain customers.

be well prepared for pressure selling as well,ready to walk at any time.disregard what the salesman say,if you feel uncomfortable,just tell them you can come back another time and then leave.
the pressure selling is just a "technique"that some sales man use to attack those "lay downs" or "half lay downs".if you have a clear mind,you won't be pressured.Tell yourself,"I know what I want,but,they can't rip me off"

We make NOTHING if we don't sell anything. We don't make any money when we have customers test drive four vehicles and then tell us they will go home and think about it. Trust me, I think everyone should sell cars for a month out of their lifetime, so they can see what it is like to walk in our shoes. Most of us are on 100% commission, so we are going to do our best to overcome all objections and make the sale, whether it is a mini-deal or not, it is still a deal.

Pressure selling on a "lay down" is not needed, because lay-downs just agree no questions asked. "Half lay downs" don't really exist, unless you are referring to peeps who need to be coaxed into making a purchase (which happens all the time). They want to buy, they are just uneasy. A good salesperson can overcome objections like "I need to talk to my wife about this..."

pretend that you aren't that interested in getting a TSX,that's important.If you show up at the dealership and tell the saleman"hey,I am here to buy the TSX today" then,you are 90% done to the salesguy as they would think that you are a "lay down".

Do not pretend at all. Treat the salesperson as you would want to be treated. Being dishonest/evasive works both ways, and it usually ends with the dealership looking shady, and the process being more difficult than it needs to be. I'll be honest with you, I'd expect the same back.

If you're on this site, you're not a lay down. Let's stop using that term. A lay down is the uneducated/sleeper buyer. The phrase "there is an ass for every seat" refers to this type of buyer. NOONE HERE IS A LAY DOWN.

Just walk into the dealership.pretend that you are just browsing,and see if any sales guy will try to approach.

I'd greet you and help you out. We get peeps who are "just looking" all the time. We are used to it.

If the sales in that dealership isn't that good at the moment or that week,the manager would be able to discount a good amount to satisfy you,however,still,it really depends on what deal is good deal to you,right?

There is still a limit to how much of a discount, and whether they are willing to give it...even if it is slow. You would be just as likely to get your deal if things were busy as hell, as long as you follow eveything I have said. Being educated helps you get a better deal, and helps me write quicker, easier deals. I'll write mini-deals all day long...it's better than nothing!


Cambomonk:

Im not very good at negotiating prices so what I did was obtain price quotes from multiple Acura dealers within the area. then take the lowest price quote and forward it to another dealer and ask them to beat the price. Keep doing it until the price is reasonable ($500 over invoice is a good deal).

$500 over...still a mini (the salesperson will make the same as invoice or less), but far less hassle. I give you props, Cambo!

Jimmyt knows his car buying too! Good advice!

Thus ends the LONGEST post ever. Hope this helped...anything I can do to help both sides makes things easier!

Diggs

IlliNorge

True, none of us on this site are lay-downs but it is my experience that the salesman will assume that you are until you prove otherwise. As soon as you base your first offer on the invoice (i.e. $XX,X72) instead of the MSRP, you won't be treated like a kid. I actually watched a guy write out the entire offer sheet using the MSRP without looking up at me once and then slid the pen across to me. But I blame myself for not proving that I wasn't a lay-down.

So much of what you say, Dirk, rings true. If you don't try pulling anything shady, a good deal will be done with a good salesman. If either side tries pulling any crap it's adios.

Dirk Diggs

That's another closing technique. It's called an assumptive close, assuming you are a buyer at MSRP. I find it is worth more grief than money.

Diggs

atarrill

Dirk, thanks for the great info and advice! The last time I bought a car was in 1995. I bought an Acura and paid cash. I also asked them to waive the doc fees because I planned to register the vehicle and pay taxes in person, although perhaps I zeroed this out because "Taxes and registration" were on a separate line of the deal.

This time I'm again going for a cash deal and I want to pay $500-$800 over invoice and again do my own registration and tax at the DMV, so I plan to ask for all "extra" fees to be waived. Is this a fair request?

gt0279a

I've always had good experiences working with the Fleet Manager vs. Floor Salesmen.

Pricing is straightforward, and all the paperwork is prepared.

You can avoid haggling and all that unessesary waiting at the dealership. But, there are still great deals to be had at the dealership if you follow some of the advice above.

Dirk Diggs

Yes it is...at $500-$800 over, they can absorb the doc fee, and you should have a painless deal too!

Reach

I've mentioned before that I did a lot of research and actually had a really amicable dealer and salesman, and he knew ahead of time that I had printouts and we were going to argue to a competitive price.

Even with all that, he did exactly what you said. He wrote MSRP ($30,050) on the price sheet, wrote in the 'dealer options', doc fee, and said this is your price before TTL. Slid it across to me with a pen and an X by where I sign. I'm maybe not the most assertive guy ever, and believe me there is a bit of pressure on you when you're ready to sign. So, I crossed out 30,050, wrote in 28,200, then circled the options and wrote "free" next to it, and passed it back to him. He looked at me puzzled.

I gave him a very similar explanation: By my calculation, that's $500 over invoice for the car, which is fair for everyone, I'll pay your doc fee (which was a very low $99) but I didn't ask for those options, so now they're free. He initialed the changes, signed his part and passed it back. I signed it and we were done, and everything went very smoothly from there. The finance manager didn't try to sell me even 1 more option, not even protection package or wheels or nothin. Another hour of obligatory paperwork and I was done. I am very happy with it and hope any future car buys I make go that smoothly.

Dirk Diggs

That salesperson had some balls doing that! You effectively neutered him though! Nice job!

BTW...when you ask a dealer to throw in things like wheel locks, mats, etc...they have to be paid for out of the profit. If you worked a deal down to invoice or below, it might be possible for them to still throw it in, but they won't want to, as they aren't making much at that point anyways.

Diggs

julyccc

i got my 05 tsx with navi for $26,700 it only has 200 miles and not a demo


since it has 3000 miles and a demo, start a lot lower. check KBB. buy it like a use car.


maybe start from 24,000 flat? that is my guess

Dirk Diggs

I have absolutely no idea how dealerships can sell demos, or what the general rule is regarding what you can get off as far as a discount.

I would figure at least all of the holdback, if it has a good amount of miles on it (like 3,000 in this case).

$24,000 is probably asking for too much of a discount. They are selling at dealer auctions for more than that.

Diggs

EDIT: In reference to the thread...there isn't any set way to close someone on a demo besides the added discount you can obtain.

exexexex

bro,you rock!
That's true,I just try to reverse the process of the sales technique that I have told to follow and practiced on some customers.Maybe I am just not experienced enough.Well written,this will help him well I guess.

exexexex

no problem,good luck on your purchase!

julyccc

i said start from 24,000 and low ball them. and increase from there not buy it at 24,000

Brandon24pdx

Assuming the dealership is a straight shooter, theres only a few pieces of advice Ill toss in.

If you're leasing, do some serious reading on the leasing process before you sit down and try to negotiate one. Whatever you do, dont put any extra money down, aka "cap cost reduction" on a lease deal. If you're leasing, you should be out of there with no more than about $750 out of your pocket. Actually I would call around to the local dealerships and see if they have any lease deals going for TSX's. These deals tend to be pretty down and dirty in terms of money, but they may or may not offer them.

Assuming you're buying that day and have negotiated a price/payment you can live with...then yes, the F & I dude will try to sell you more crap and tack it onto your payment. These would include paint protection packages, dent repair insurance, extended warrantees, windsheild hardening treatments, scotchguard upholstery treatments, etc etc. These I would flatley refuse, with the exception of the Diamond-hard windshield treatment. For the $10 bucks or so it changes you payment, it actually is one im willing to add-on. Do a web-search if you're curious.

Other than that, I would say dont trade your car in at the same time. This only further complicates an already tedious process. It gives them less ammo to fire if you're doing a straight deal with no trade in, and less money to make off you. If you're buying (not leasing) comming to the table with your own (cheap) financing also takes ammo away from them. If you're leasing it would be recommended to do it through American Honda...their rates arent that bad anyway.

You'll just have to decide how much over invoice you'll be willing to pay. but keep in mind they make money even they sell the car to you for flat invoice (dealer holdback from Honda).

Chompin

My TSX is due at the end of the month and I'm already dreading the entire deal making process. Last week there was a great car buying article on AOL. In it they mention something called a holdback allowance that the dealer gets from the manufacturer. This allowance of usually 2 or 3 % actually lowers the invoice that the dealer pays for the car. So by going for $500 over invoice the dealer is actually getting a hundred or two more. But thats cool with me .....I won't feel guilty about trying to low ball the guy because I know he's doing ok behind the deal.I've got a low Kelly BB price of $26,393.00 for a non navi 6sp TSX.Thats just shy of $1,000 over the published invoice and I feel thats a bit much.I'm going in starting at $26,085..about 650 over invoice. Thats to me feels like a fair profit for the dealer. Whats everyones take???????

Dirk Diggs

Holdback is what the dealerships get to pay for advertising, floorplan (financing their inventory), and to pay dealership salaries and commissions. If you can get into their holdback, more power to ya. The process will take a bit longer, and you'll probably end up meeting the sales manager as well (this is called a turnover (T.O.) or a house T.O.).

Remember though, you're buying an Acura and not a Ford/domestic, so cutting into dealer holdback probably isn't as prevalent.

Diggs

Michael05

If you're willing to invest $20 and some time into learning how to be a better negotiator, I'd highly recommend the book "Secrets of Power Negotiating" by Roger Dawson.

There's a "Secrets of Power Negotiating For Salespeople" by Dawson as well -- it'll teach you some of the tricks the salespeople try to use on you. And even more importantly, it'll show you the ways to defeat those tricks! Forcing them to make the first offer, flinching, bracketing, higher authority, good guy/bad guy, and probably a dozen others.

These books are truly awesome, and you'll be amazed at how many times you can apply them -- not just in car negotiating, but in everyday life. You'll always feel like you've won the negotiations...and better yet, you'll leave the bargaining table making the other side feel like they won too (even though you REALLY won!).

I'm in sales. Last year my company paid for me to attend a sales negotiating seminar conducted by Roger Dawson. During the lunch break between the morning and afternoon sessions, I got a call from the guy who was supposed to be installing my new dishwasher that day. He said he was running an hour late, and he hoped it wouldn't be a problem. I used one of Dawson's tactics (that I had learned that morning) called "trading off". Long story short, in the 2 minutes it took me to employ that tactic, I got the installer to take $50 off the price...even though his being one hour late to my house wasn't going to cause one bit of inconvenience! $50 for two minutes of work...not bad!

One of Dawson's main points is that you'll never make as much money for a small amount of your time as you will while negotiating. It's definitely in your best interest to go into this TSX negotiation prepared, well armed with facts and a strategy, ready to walk away if necessary. The Power Negotiating books will make you feel more confident when you walk into that dealership (or start faxing them, or submit your price through AutoTrader, or whatever).

joerockt

I dont think you need to spend any money on a book. I think the bottom line is that if you go into a dealer knowing fully well that you dont NEED the car your going to buy, then you will always have the upper hand because you'll have the power to walk. The sales manager dosent want you to leave the dealer without a car. For example, when I bought the wifes 06 Accord a few months ago, I negoitated back and forth with the sales mgr on a specific price. He came close, but not close enough, so we got up and said thanks but no thanks and were heading to another dealer. Just as were getting to my car to get in, the mgr comes running up to us and gives us his final offer. It was only about $250 off from what I wanted, so it was a deal.

And my other bit of advice would be to ALWAYS deal directly with the sales manager, as they have the power to say yea or nay to the price your asking right on the spot.

Michael05

Agreed, you don't need to buy the book to get a good deal on a car. But it sure doesn't hurt to know what kinds of tactics they might be using on you (some maybe even without your knowledge!), and how you can counter them. Just putting it out there as a resource for anyone who wants to learn how to negotiate better.