I was enjoying the beautiful spring day with friend driving some mountain roads today and had a slight encounter w/ a tree and a stump.

Was going downhill and hit a patch of gravel making a sharp left at ~45mph. My oversteered like crazy and was sideways for a moment. I counter steered and had decent control of the car, but I paniced and hit the brakes hard. That made my car oversteer again and I was pointed off the road as I was skidding.

I went off the road straight at about 20mph, and hit some dirt which didn't help at all. I went over a large pointy stump and bumped a small tree at about 5mph. Probably the weakest crash ever for that situation. My first accident ever though.

Me and the passenger were both ok, but my car wasn't so lucky, although it was better than wrapped around a tree like some guys had done at that corner a couple years ago.

Thankfully this was a neighborhood and had wide roads and some gross on the edges or I might have driven off a cliff or into a real tree. Makes me wish I had Brembo's though.

The damage: bent a part of my left fender in fromt he tree. But the kicker, the stump ripped my bumper off the chasis on the top, crushed my radiator, bent my fuel line, and did some chasis damage to some sheet metal.

I don't think its terrible, even looking at the prices at a dealer for parts. All of the tabs on the top of the bumper ripped off, which is annoying because structurally its fine. Not sure what's going to happen with that, maybe ghetto rigging it is possible .

It missed my engine as far as I can tell from getting under the car. I think I kind of hopped over the stump so it missed some parts. Thankfully.

In all a tough lesson to learn, but way better than it could've been.

From nuding the tree


Bumper damage from the stump


Looks better than it is, we pushed the bumper back in place more or less after removing the grill. Its pretty busted though.


The worst damage, the radiator is fubar'd


You can see it w/ the sheet metal bent.


Finally the fuel line bent too

 

Did you have your VSA on?

 

man that blows.

 

Reading BMW board a few years ago, it struck me that there was an epidemic of e46 BMWs leaving the roadway backwards right AFTER the stability control became standard equipment!

I'd also suggest SKIP BARBER. I've signed up for a refresher course next month, myself!

 

Anything happen to your resonator?

 

brembo's wouldn't have helped... you lost control. no brakes can help at that point.

 

Man that sucks. Looks like an expensive proposition to fix all that damage.

Could have been worse though.

 

I usually turn it off when I go driving for fun, so I think it was off.

Don't have one, took it out installing my CAI.

I'll have to declare it to my insurance company. Think anything will come from having my K&N intake? That thread about insurance companies dropping people kinda freaked me out.

 

Wow! That sucks. Looks like it's gonna cost you few G's to fix everything, but at least you are okay.

 

Why would you turn it off? It was meant especially for situations like this...

 

That sucks bro. Sorry to hear it.

 

that sucks...I know how those mountains are up there in Tech..You come up a hill theres a immediate slope then turn..But what are you going to do pay out the pocket...I know your in college insurance maybe

 

Real sorry to hear about what happened. Its good to see no one was hurt.

But this is now the second person on the board who lost control of their TSX and had an accident. In both cases VSA was turned off.

 

I had a very similar scenario occur in my E30 3 series years ago.
Motorcyclists know of the dangers of the springtime debris, gravel and sand on the roads this time of the year for that very reason.
Fortunately VSA was designed for these types of pedicaments and probably would've prevented your accident.
In situations such as this I would just say that you should be glad that it wasn't any more serious, that you didn't hit anyone while you were out of control, and finally, that no one was hurt. But the lesson in this experience is to use the safety features provided. A lot of effort went into designing and testing the VSA system and they're there for a definate reason and that is to keep us ...safe.

 

If the VSA was that big a deal that it should never be turned off, Acura would have never designed it to be turned on/off. Yes, maybe it could have helped out, but that is not a guarantee that the accident would never had happened. Kinda lame to say, it would never happen if you have the VSA on.

Xizor--sorry to hear about that. Hope there isn't any more underside damage then what you can see. Looks like a hard hit to the bottom...didn't screw up the frame I hope, nothing like a bent frame!

 

Thats sucks, glad no one got hurt, get her repaired!

I usually turn off the VSA in my car because it seems that I acceleration is better with it off....from how I drive.

 

The stability and traction controls can be switched off because sometimes you need wheel slip in order to get out of snow.

Also they assume that the driver is not a, well nitwit.

Spirited driving on mountain roads is precisely when VSA is a good idea.

If you're on a track with wide lanes and NO TREES anywhere nearby then maybe you can switch it off to try to get the maximum few tenths in lap time.

 

It needs to be turned OFF when driving in deep snow (i.e. leaving the line at 0), getting out of mud, etc.

No one said that. Only that it would have helped, especially in a situation like this.

I've found the VSA helps in wet turns, and I'm sure it would have been nice with sand on pavement, too. Just something to consider next time you are driving on a hilly road...

 

i can honestly say that VSA will cause your car to loose control more than help it. my car went over a curb when i made a panic turn to avoid an accident. as a result the turn that i should have been able to make i didn't!
looking back i know the VSA is what caused me to hit the curb because the VSA tries to keep you on the intended path which happens to be a straighter line than the path i wanted to take.

and for the record if you report that to your insurance company i garentee you that your rates will skyrocket!
mainly because your young, and you caused the accident because from the sounds of it you were driving too fast. you hit a stationary object that had you been driving at the posted speed limit you would have been fine.
don't know if your company will drop you or not but a higher rate is sure to follow and if they do drop you with an at fault accident on your record many companies may not be able to insure you.

 

not sure what to do. I took off the bumper and looked at all the parts that need to be replaced. I can do most of the work myself, except for some sheet metal that needs to be straigthted.

The parts are probably over $1000 if I made it back to new. ~500 to fix to working order.

I have to go back and check the speed limits, but I don't think I was going much over it. It was just a giant patch of gravel that did me in. Guess my insurance company wont really care?

 

Who are you insured under

 

Geico, no accidents, no tickets. This is a good time to pray for mercy.

 

You might want to try and file a claim with the city. I know in El Paso TX they usually pay out in order to avoid a lawsuit. I was driving down the highway in my IS300, and some chic in front of me ran over a tire piece, sent it through the front end of my car. I called my insurance company and they told me to file a claim with the roads dept. of the highway and safety guys...... whatever their real title is.......... anyways, they paid out to cover the cost of my deductible only because I filed a claim with my insurance company too. I heard of other people doing the same without filing a claim, and got the funds to fix the car all in all. I guess they try to avoid lawsuits by people, which costs more money if they wind up losing...so they pay up front instead.
Just a thought if the roads were covered in gravel to a point where the road would be considered "unsafe".

 

quote by toddstuh: Fortunately VSA was designed for these types of pedicaments and probably would've prevented your accident.


quote by slo007: No one said that. Only that it would have helped, especially in a situation like this.



Actually, It was said.......

 

Errrr.... He said "probably would've prevented", not "it would never happen".

 

Sorry about your car. It's a good thing you are okay. You might want to go back and take pictures of the patch of gravel before anyone cleans it up. It could be useful when filing your claim.

 

Sorry, I just dont buy this. VSA will not prevent you from turning - in fact it will help you. It doesnt try to "keep you on the intended path". That is definately not what its meant to do. VSA will simply correct understeer and oversteer, which means that if you hit the curb with VSA on, you would have hit it anyways with VSA off, only it could have been much worse. You would have oversteered or understeered and plowed right into the curb anyways, perhaps in a worse way. I know it may have felt like it wasnt letting you turn more sharply, but that was more the laws of physics (i.e. if it let you turn more sharply you still would not have made the turn and would have oversteered or understeered).

As for the accident in this thread, VSA may or may not have prevented the accident but the odds are that it would have helped.

 

How does VSA differ from traction control.....to me the accident was a matter of loss of traction on the gravel, not understeer and oversteer.

 

IMO losing traction usually leads to under/oversteer. If you lose the front you understeer, if you lose the back you oversteer. I lost the back and oversteer considerably. I believe VSA brakes the certain wheels to keep your car from rotating, while traction control only brakes whichever wheel is slipping? VSA is a type of intelligent traction control.

As for having it off, I turn it off when I do spirited driving because its not very fun to take a hard turn, squeel a tire and then have it bog because VSA braked it. VSA is definately good for safety, but not when you want to have full control of the car. I just bit off more than I could chew this time.

 

No FDL the fact is VSA in my case made it worse. i was turning left, the way VSA works is in this case it will apply the brakes to the right side wheels the wheels with the most weight on them. by applying the brakes to the right side of the car it actually causes the car to turn to the right because the right side is trying to slow while the momentum of the car allows the left side of the car to roll freely. this makes the car steer to the right thus limiting the amount of oversteer.
additionally when the system neglects braking ability from the left side of the car it is in effect comprimising your braking ability.
i can assure you i have been driving for 17 years now and i am quite capable of handeling my car. i know exactly how hard i can push it and i know the angle i attempted the turn. i had the wheel turned and the car did not respond to my input. i know from going back to the scene and looking for tire marks that the approach to the turn and the time i had to react with the speed i was going i would have made it.
several people who understand the VSA system better than i that work at tha acura dealer also confirmed my analogy.

 

i shouldnt say this because its wrong. but if you tell your insurance company that it was a near miss or hit and run that another car caused you to loose control and run off the road. and if you had a cop at to verify this was the case because there was no other car at the scene they will probly write it up as not at fault and your rates shouldnt change.

 

I understand what you are saying, but my point is that if the VSA kicked in, its because you were going to oversteer/understeer and how would that have made your situation better? Keep in mind that the VSA on the TSX kicks in fairly late, it will actually let you oversteer/understeer the car somewhat.

You are saying you could have safely made the turn more sharply, via oversteer ... and I dont think you can be certain of this. But I'm not trying to insult your driving ability or judgement. I guess I'm just saying that most of the time VSA is going to help. Letting your car oversteer/understeer is not going to make the situation any better for 99% of drivers on the road.

 

Unfortunately this is not the case, nor do I have a cop to confirm it.

 

Sorry to hear about it Xizor.

I'm no expert on insurance but with your clean record and the fact that nobody ELSE's insurance company will make a claim against Geico should help. My gut reaction is that they wouldn't drop you outright for a single-car accident.

Good luck.

And BTW, what does your "Half & Half" plate mean? Is your family in the dairy product business?

 

yes i belive i could have because of the angle i hit the curb i was more or less pointed at it. the right front tire took most the damage.
the only way i could have hit it at that angle is if i was trying to run into it. the VSA tried to keep the car straight thus eliminate the oversteer.
had it not interveined the direction of my car would have been pointed down the street the way i had intended. even if the car would have begun to slide sideways into the turn i could have powered it forward with the throttle.

it happend so fast its hard to remember exactly how it happend but all i remember is that my sights were set on where i wanted to go but then realised i was about hit the curb. i wasnt going THAT fast and it seemed like the car would neither stop or turn as i had intended.
there were no skid marks to speak of because of the ABS so i cant even say exactly where my path was through the turn.

i have told several people at Acura about it and also some on the internet and they all agree the VSA was a factor in me not being able to maintain control.

 

Sorry to see your accident Xizor. I hope everything ends up ok for you. GEICO won't drop you for your first accident, but they will drop you if you have another. I think you should tell the truth about what happened but stress more about the gravel on the road, and less about how you turned off VSA to go for a joy ride.

I'd also like to say that this could have been any one of us here. I don't think it's a stretch to say that almost all of us drive our cars faster than we should at times. I know I do. So ease up on the guy, shit happens.

 

I'll be honest, I drive slow, like a little bitch. I've gotten too many tickets in the past and I don't want to scratch the paint as this just generates more work for me to be OCD about. I'm that guy going 5-10 over the speed limit in the left lane who hangs out 200 feet behind the guy in front of him. Sometimes people flash their lights and tailgate me. I don't care, they can ruin their paint on the crap my tires kick up. If I'm going at least 7 or 8 over, I'll be damned if I'll move into a more crowded lane just because some prick wants to drive 95 miles per hour down the Interstate.

I will say I do speed more on long trips though, sometimes getting there faster is worth the extra risk, if you're driving for hours and hours. Not so if it's the difference between a 40 and 45 minute trip.

 

That's pretty stupid, since that "prick" will have to merge onto the busy lane, pass you, then merge back. The result is a number of very tight maneuvers that, if gone wrong, could end up with a sideways car right in front of you. You and the "prick" could be killed. How sad!

PS: I drive 95 sometimes, though it's mostly in sections of the trip where there's little traffic. 75-85 is a good average for me.

 

I view it like this, he shouldn't be speeding that much anyway, why should I facilitate it? I'm not saying I never drive that fast, or get annoyed when people don't get out of the way, but if I'm already going faster than the people in the lanes to the right of me, and somewhat faster than the speed limit, why should I inconvenience myself, slow down, etc, because some guy wants to play 2 Fast 2 Furious on I95?

 

I agree that driving way over the speed limit is dangerous; but I don't see it as facilitating a speeder. I see it as getting out of the way and avoiding being in the middle of a nasty situation. The guy going too fast is only going to stay behind me x amount of time. After that, he'll maneuver around me and go on with his run.

What I find specially bad is when people drive a certain speed on the middle and fast lanes, and all the speeding cars drive 90+ in the slow lane. Whenever there's a truck, speeding cars merge out to the other lanes and cut people off...