infantry

Just got back from the BMW dealership, my wife wants a new BMW . I went their with a open mind, not trying to compare the vehicle to my TSX . But im a creature of habit and cant help myself .

The BMW 3 is not close in value to the TSX .
Let me repeat the BMW 3 base series is not even close in value to the tsx . To get the same features that I have in my TSX, I would have to pay about 10,000 more . Dont get me wrong it drives nice and all of that and has a quality about it . Maybe I am jaded from my former experience with BMWs I had two when I was stationed in Germany and they had all kinds of problems, the service was so-so (Keep in Mind this was in Germany where customer service is not top priority, you could probably get better service at a KIA dealership hear in the states ) .

The BMW, didnt shift as smooth as the TSX and had about the same amount of power and the looks of the vic are questionable, I find that the TSX has a very classic sports sedan look about it . I think that the BMW makes great cars but are living off their past and their reputation . Well anyway just be happy that we have made the wise choice and picked the right car

TheDukeZip

I'll definitely agree. I feel that I got a great deal with my TSX. Other cars I considered at the time were 06/07 Mazda 6s GT and 07 Altima 3.5SL. The Bimmer 3 series was a bit out of my price range.

jlukja

Which Beamer did you look at? 328 sedan? I need to drive the 335, I've heard so many wonderful things about that engine.

brandt

I love BMWs - never owned one - but love the way they drive and look. I've owned 8 Mercedes Benzs and will probably never own another one. The German cars have slipped in quality and driving experience. Cost of ownership is very high. I've only owned an Acura for 8 months but they have to be close to the best bang for the buck on the road right now.

iamandypark

I heard from many people once you go BMW you never go back. I sat in a 335i and the interior felt better overall. the engine is just awsome too. Acura is a great brand and all but I think they need to catch up with companies such as BMW who actually listen to their enthusiast market. I will admit though the fact that they are plagues with small electrical problems is somewhat of a turnoff however many people still buy them being fully aware of these issues. [goes and admire jesal's fine ass car again]

infantry

I looked at the 328 xi, as a preivous BMW owner, I owned a 2003 330 C I can tell you the Interior quality is not that great afer about 17000 miles I had rattles everywhere . I really due beleive that BMWs are not that great and that they are living off their past . Cadiallac did that for years before people cought on that the cars are not what they use to be .

infantry

Well against my advice, we are getting a BMW ! Im keeping my tsx, the wife is upgrading from a 2004 Civic EX so she is getting a big upgrade . I just can hear the moaning and gripping in a year . Oh yeah she wants to drop it so their is another 1200.00 dollars out the door, Oh well its her money .

rb1

A friend has a 2004 325i (2.5L, 184hp). My butt-dyno says it's just as fast as my 2007 TSX despite it having 20 fewer paper ponies (probably 30 fewer on paper if you factor in the SAE conversion).

It has 40,000+ miles on it, no rattles, and the TSX doors feel like tin by comparison -- the BMW doors have some serious weight to them and close like a vacuum-seal, even though the cars weigh roughly the same overall.

In terms of value, sure the TSX has more goodies for the money, but I don't agree that BMW quality has suffered...

CarbonGray Earl

I LOVE BMW. But I disagree with people that once you drive one you can never go back. I came back myself. As much as I love the way they drive and feel, they can be costly to maintain should anything go wrong. So the practical side of me won over....even though we all know the TSX is a stellar driver as well.

Don't get me wrong now, BMW engines are top-notch and are fairly bulletproof. ....and YES the driving experience is truly unrivaled. But I'm not willing to overlook the longevity or reliablity of a vehicle for a driving experience. I would trust my TSX to over 200k miles, and from the previous BMWs I or my family has had, I would think seriously about trading Bimmers after they get to 100k miles.

infantry

Well anyway, I went from BMW to Acura and I am pretty happy about my choice . I really want a Cadillac but its out of my price range . Oh well, im sure we will like the car, just my previous experience with BMW has not been so great .

micvog

After spending over $500 on my TSX for PM, cabin air filters, front and rear brake pads and front discs - all after only 35,000 miles - BMW's free maintenance looks awfully appealing. And looking at the experience of friends who own or have owned BMWs, I wouldn't be concerned about their quality either. Lastly, if you drive both of them, I think you would be hard pressed to say that the TSX is in the same league as a BMW 3-Series (which is not a knock against the TSX given the price difference).

CarbonGray Earl

That's often the conundrum Hondas face. Going for the Zen-like, feather touch, lightness-of-being as preferred by Honda as opposed to the Germanic weightyness/sturdiness a BMW/Benz/VAG product tries to convey often makes Hondas feel cheap by comparison.

Our doors do suck in comparison to BMWs...our glass and sheetmetal seem thinner, etc. Back when I owned an Integra, I could see the point, but with a TSX, I would hope they could at least make the wind and road noise go away, even if they can't make the door feel heavier.

CarbonGray Earl

That's the thing....the TSX is not in the same league as the NEW 3. Our TSX was designed as a e46 fighter, technically. But even then, the e46 drives pretty well. however, I wouldn't put the TSX to far behind that. Note that I haven't driven a e92 to venture an opinion between it and the TSX, but I've heard its seriously good stuff.

Here's what sums up my thoughts. If you plan to own the car for a long time, buy the TSX/TL whatever. You save initially, you get a ton of features, etc. If you plan to drive it for a short time, buy the bimmer. Most of the headaches and interior longevity issues come later....Hopefully it will be someone elses problem by then.

mrgold35

BMW makes very beautiful and well handling vehicles in every make and model. A lot of people are willing to live with less luxury/features and pay more money just to get a BMW in the garage.

Acura and Honda are my favorite cars (in my price range). They just need more engine options from economy 2.4L to the wild 2.3L +260hp turbo for the TSX, 3.5L and 3.7L for the TL, 2.3L turbo and 3.5L V-6 for RDX; and 3.7L to a much needed V-8 for the RL and MDX.

Hey Infantry! Are you a Ranger, light infantry, or mechanized infantry (Bradley or Stryker)? I was the Signal Officer for M1A2 Abrams Armor Battalion in Fort Lewis way back in 1995. I spent a lot of time eating that damn volcanic dust and dirt found at the Yakima live fire training range in WA.

infantry

mrgold35 Im current serving with 5th brigade 2nd ID 2nd battalion 1st Infantry Regiment and we are a Stryker Unit, we like to call ourselves meduim Infantry . We live right next to Ranger Batt .

SoCaliTrojan

It's not really free maintenance...you're practically paying for it with the price you pay for the car.

I like how BMW's look on the outside (i hate the interior). My dad's BMW's repair will be so expensive that the car has been sitting on the street for a long time. He moves it from time to time with great difficulty. It had been repaired before, but it broke again in under 1 year.

I'd rather have all the goodies in the TSX than a base BMW with nothing. A base BMW is practically a BMW-wannabe.

wackura

I like that Acura makes relatively light weight cars. That's how we get the decent MPG and the good performance from a relatively small engine. They'd lose some distinctiveness if they built tanks with a quiet interior and a door that sounds manly when you shut it.

infantry

You can also spend 1500 dollars on a good set of coilovers for your tsx and get as good or better handling and ride than a BMW and still have 8500 dollars left over to buy something else !

acura_ak

i agree....the TSX is definitely an awesome car for what you get.

davidspalding

Well, if you're paying through the nose, at LEAST use Consumer Reports buying guide, or a Costco or BJ's buying program, to ensure you're getting that pretty pony for a good price. If it was my spouse, I'd be telling her, "we can buy the fun car that is a good investment, saves money at the sale and the gas pump, and is miserly on repairs, OR we can get the fashionable, status symbol fun car that costs more, and we'll want to sell off in 3-4 years. You pick. Smart buy or fashion-conscious buy." I can guess that maybe she's sick of Hondas and wants something with das Deutschlander accent.

I do appreciate that the bimmers may be a bit more sporty and agressive on the road, but it's only driving. There's the end-of-month shock of gas bills and repair costs once out of warranty. The equation makes me think of that axiom, "Beauty is skin deep, but ugly goes right to the bone."

PACman

Broke My Wallet

Overtaxed

BMW has excellent driving dynamics (I recently test drove a 2007 328i sedan), but not much lux at all unless you pay $$$. It's worth it in 2 situations IMO: When you want the driving dynamics, or you want the "badge"

In Canada, my TSX is almost 44 grand taxes in. A similarly optioned 328i coupe is in the low 60 grand, taxes in.

I really like the new 3-series coupe. I may get it later on. But I don't intend to trade my TSX for it. It is not worth it to me. The TSX has excellent, almost as good handling, and I honestly can't feel any significant difference between it and the 3-series in regular driving (except for the too-wide turning circle of the TSX.) The 328i and 335i engines however are magnificant.

What is she getting infantry?

Frozhand

I drive 5-series and acura rdx, and I can tell you that I really love the 5-series, and it'll be extremely hard to find a good replacement car for the 5-series... not even acura RL. But yea, can't really compare 5-series to TSX...

Whatever you have, enjoy it.

xenonhid

No wonder when I see BMW drivers, they look so grumpy.


Probably from all the zero disappearing from their bank accounts.

majin ssj eric

Don't let anybody from Edmunds hear you bad-talking the 3-series or they're likely to go into conniptions.....











....Or Car and Driver.

infantry

It seems that Car and Driver and Edmunds are BMWs pimps ! No machine is ever close to perfect, but to hear them describe the BMW, you would think it came from the heavens .

rb1

The E46 BMW 325i weighed only 100 lbs or so more than a TSX, and achieved comparable fuel economy.

bradykp

i agree man. here's my take on it though:

i love BMWs as cars to drive. I would love to own one under warranty or lease if I could, especially now with the maintenance free. bringing cars into the dealership for any service is a hassle though, free or not. If you can deal with trips to the dealer, and don't want to own the car long term, then I think you could take the plunge on a BMW. But if you're a consumer that cares about value and will keep the car past the warranty, then the BMW is not even an option.

Great vehicles to drive, horrible vehicles to own. TSX is a decent vehicle to drive, and a great vehicle to own. Plus, substantially less expensive. It's a no brainer for a smart shopper that cares about value.

bradykp

people that are BMW enthusiasts can afford to be BMW enthusiasts. My friend wanted to replace the battery in his girlfriend's 328 and he found out he could only get the battery at the dealership, and they had to install it. Because of it's odd location in the trunk behind a panel, the labor cost was high. total price for battery installed: $800.

that's not even mentioning all the problems they have.

they are great machines to drive, no doubt, and i would love to have one under lease or warranty, but not at this stage of my life. i care about value too much to get a german car right now. just too darn expensive to own overall.

bradykp

caddy's still rank pretty high in quality reports though

bradykp

hope you don't get a lot of snow up there in washington. snow + bmw + female drive + dropped bmw = BAD NEWS!!!

just messing about the female driver part....kind of....

bradykp

BMW quality has suffered GREATLY. get in a model from the 80s or 90s, and compare the interiors. it's nowhere near what they used to be. it's shocking he has no rattles at 40,000 miles, and if he hasn't had many problems, he's the exception of beamer owners, not the rule. the guys i know that own beamers are always griping about something minor and how much it cost to fix.

bradykp

what are you doing to your breaks that you need front and rear break pads and new discs? i'm at 32,000 miles living near NYC driving in traffic, and i haven't gotten those replaced yet.

i've only done oil changes. (i had to buy new tires, but that was my fault, not the car's, plus i got nicer tires for cheaper than the michilin;s from acura).

bradykp

i really do hope acure starts taking small steps forward to address these problems. i understand the added cost, but as they reach economies of scale on their other features, they should be able to add small improvements and keep the cost low. i hope, because i love honda motor company as an option for my future vehicles, but i am gonna want a bit more creature comforts as i grow in age and income. lexus just makes such an amazing car, but right now, the price is just too high, so i live with the slightly cheaper made acura.

bradykp

if you completely ignore quality and are just looking for a great driving car, it's pretty tough to get better than what BMW does.

there's lots of things about them that i don't like though, especially the navi and that i touch or whatever it's called. but as a driving machine, there's good reason to love them

davidspalding

Really?? Are BMW dealers snotty? Is it like being a guest on the SPROCKETS film program? ... Seems like taking a car to the local Acura dealer is a very smooth and gracious affair. TL loaners for the duration ... superb customer treatment ... oh, and after the last (warranty) repair, they washed the car and dressed the wheels. A minor touch, but a nice one all the same.
Couldn't've said it better!

bradykp

well, i was referring to the inconvenience of having to drive to a dealership for any reason, even routine maintenance (which i wouldn't get done at the dealership cause it's a ripoff). as for the wash they do at acura, i'd almost rather them not touch the car. it's more like a rinse. though once, they did wipe down the interior of my car and that made me smile.

as for my experience with acura service, i had a problem with my roof, paint starting coming off. initially, they gave me a lot of pushback, but the factory rep agreed to paint the roof. they still made me feel like it was probably my fault, even though nothing has happened to the car.

second, i read the TSB about the front break judder on the 2006 model, and i have experienced it since the beginning. not all the time though, so i didn't know if it was a known problem. i probably should have said something earlier, but now that i'm at 30,000 miles, they basically said tough luck.

i just think the service at dealerships in general is sleazy, and i find acura to be only marginally better than others.

csun2004

BMW: Big Money Waste
Go TSX

micvog

I thought it was outrageous as well but, after searching these forums, I found it wasn't unheard of with the TSX. Most of my driving is freeway and apparently that is harder on the rear brake pads; the front brake pads were not completely worn (~35% left) but I replaced them since the discs were warped and had to be replaced (too far gone to be resurfaced). The rear pads were replaced at 30K; the front pads and discs at 35K. I am not happy about it and even wrote a very professional letter to Acura. They refused any assistance and rather rudely at that.

It sounds like I have done more maintenance. In addition to the oil changes, I have also done the inspection/adjustment services (the "B" service on my '06), replaced the air filters ($$$) and transmission fluid at 30K. I also replaced my tires at 35K - Kumho Ecsta SPTs.

I have been looking at the new BMWs only because I feel like I am paying BMW-prices for my TSX. The only down-side I have heard about the car and the maintenance is that the "free" maintenance program defers a lot until 60K at which time the owner is on the hook for the costs.

davidspalding

Wow, warped rotors at 32K ODO? That's scary. Makes me glad I got my certified vehicle with 35K on the ticker, instead of the former fleet vehicle with 17K. I can only trust that the certification truly checked/corrected anything like this.

Cabin air filters look like a pretty easy change-out, from the illustrations I've seen. But not cheap unless you really scrounge...? How's something like that compare with a Bimmer?