If you were president of Honda...
05-13-2004, 12:40 PM
#1
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If you were president of Honda...
If I were in charge of Honda's North American vehicles, this would be my car lineup, assuming there was money to do all these changes. The SUVs would all be the same; I don't know jack about them.
HONDA
Fit/Jazz for under $10k
Insight-keep it around just for novelty
Civic with same general exterior styling, but interior/performance to match the Mazda 3 (leather optional, HIDs, up to 160 HP, etc)
Accord sedan with the grille similar to the TSX and a less fugly butt. Everything else the same. Bring back the wagon.
Accord coupe-fix grille like on sedan
S2000: Wouldn't touch this beauty. Honda set out to make a pure sports car, and hit the nail on the head.
Add a fuel-efficient diesel engine option for the civic and accord, forget about hybrid, dump all R&D into fuel cell. Diesel gives you the same fuel economy as hybrid, without the extra weight, space, and reliability problems that come with batteries.
ACURA
Kill the RSX, sell it as Honda CRX.
Keep base TSX the same ($26.5k price fills a great niche)
Add TSX AWD for $29k. Would be slow as a dog, but so is the A4 1.8T Quattro, and it sells like mad.
Add TSX Type R for $32k. Turbo, AWD, stiffer suspension, wider tires, stock lowering, remove luxury gizmos to shave weight. Limited production.
Keep base TL the same.
Add AWD TL for $36k or so.
Add a performance/luxury coupe (2-door, 4-seater) on the S2000 platform with a 6-cyl making near 300 HP. $37k.
RL-good as it is.
NSX-update, obviously. Make it kick ass. I believe this is well underway.
Thoughts?
HONDA
Fit/Jazz for under $10k
Insight-keep it around just for novelty
Civic with same general exterior styling, but interior/performance to match the Mazda 3 (leather optional, HIDs, up to 160 HP, etc)
Accord sedan with the grille similar to the TSX and a less fugly butt. Everything else the same. Bring back the wagon.
Accord coupe-fix grille like on sedan
S2000: Wouldn't touch this beauty. Honda set out to make a pure sports car, and hit the nail on the head.
Add a fuel-efficient diesel engine option for the civic and accord, forget about hybrid, dump all R&D into fuel cell. Diesel gives you the same fuel economy as hybrid, without the extra weight, space, and reliability problems that come with batteries.
ACURA
Kill the RSX, sell it as Honda CRX.
Keep base TSX the same ($26.5k price fills a great niche)
Add TSX AWD for $29k. Would be slow as a dog, but so is the A4 1.8T Quattro, and it sells like mad.
Add TSX Type R for $32k. Turbo, AWD, stiffer suspension, wider tires, stock lowering, remove luxury gizmos to shave weight. Limited production.
Keep base TL the same.
Add AWD TL for $36k or so.
Add a performance/luxury coupe (2-door, 4-seater) on the S2000 platform with a 6-cyl making near 300 HP. $37k.
RL-good as it is.
NSX-update, obviously. Make it kick ass. I believe this is well underway.
Thoughts?
05-13-2004, 12:50 PM
#4
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I would bring over the Fit/Jazz like Hokie said and make it compete with Scion. Also, bring over the Stream/Latitude van, NYC Taxi might like this more than the Ody cuz of the hindged doors vs. sliding doors.
Move the RSX over the Honda and rename it Integra and bring back the Type R and possibly bring the Civic Type R over too and replace the Si, bring the Accord Wagon and call it the TSX sportwagon. Thats all I can think of for now.
Move the RSX over the Honda and rename it Integra and bring back the Type R and possibly bring the Civic Type R over too and replace the Si, bring the Accord Wagon and call it the TSX sportwagon. Thats all I can think of for now.
05-13-2004, 01:02 PM
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I have to go with bringing back the Type-R's...keep the RSX and sell three trims...base, Type S, and Type R....... crush the Si hatch crap because it's ugly...redesign a civic that looks sporty and make a Type R for it too. Maybe even come up with an upgrade for the S2K and sell two trims on that one...... more HP is what I'm after!!!
05-13-2004, 01:09 PM
#6
For the most part, that looks good, except I have a few notes.
First, I would not change the grille on the Honda Accord. Making it look closer to the TSX would create a loss of brand identity for Acura.
Second, I think the addition of a hardtop or hatchback styled S2000 would be a good addition to the line-up. Don't touch the convertible, just add the closed roof model as well.
Third, drop the ridiculous Civic Si and instead, bring a more powerful Civic Type-R.
Fourth, keep the RSX in the Acura line-up. With the upcoming BMW 1-series and the existing MB C230 coupe, the RSX is still needed to keep that area covered. Plus, it's a better car than both.
Fifth, add AWD to the TSX lineup as an option for the same cost as the Navi. This allows people to balance their needs. Also, allow for the higher performance engine option (turbo or higher-compression higher-revving engine rated around 250 hp) for around $2500-$3000. Package the "Type-R" model as an A-Spec to differentiate it from Honda and sell if for less than a fully loaded TSX AWD High Output (around $31k).
Sixth, same plan for the TL. New TL A-Spec with IMA, suspension upgrades, and reduced weight for around $37k.
Seventh, bring back the CL coupe based on the TL platform with the new RL drive-train. Add IMA, AWD, and upgraded suspension for A-Spec. Keep most of the luxury items in the A-Spec model. Target Audi S4 but with more power, better fuel economy, and better driving feel.
Eighth, add a new model above the RL. Target the Audi A8 and A8L with an A-Spec model to target the S8. Development of a V8 for this model would be good. High power V8 would also be good for an RL A-Spec to compete with Audi S6. Add turbo to V8 for M5 and RS6 competitor.
There is a lot of work that Honda needs to do.
SUV wise, there is a lot of money to be made. The MDX needs to be streamlined and fitted with the new motor from the RL to move it up into X5 territory. Add IMA for X5 4.8is competitor.
Introduce new SUV based on TSX platform to compete against X3.
Honda SUV line-up is decent. A real truck, not just the SUT, might be something to consider for the future unless the SUT really moves.
I hope someone at Honda is reading this stuff. They need to step up to really get the Acura brand up to its full potential.
First, I would not change the grille on the Honda Accord. Making it look closer to the TSX would create a loss of brand identity for Acura.
Second, I think the addition of a hardtop or hatchback styled S2000 would be a good addition to the line-up. Don't touch the convertible, just add the closed roof model as well.
Third, drop the ridiculous Civic Si and instead, bring a more powerful Civic Type-R.
Fourth, keep the RSX in the Acura line-up. With the upcoming BMW 1-series and the existing MB C230 coupe, the RSX is still needed to keep that area covered. Plus, it's a better car than both.
Fifth, add AWD to the TSX lineup as an option for the same cost as the Navi. This allows people to balance their needs. Also, allow for the higher performance engine option (turbo or higher-compression higher-revving engine rated around 250 hp) for around $2500-$3000. Package the "Type-R" model as an A-Spec to differentiate it from Honda and sell if for less than a fully loaded TSX AWD High Output (around $31k).
Sixth, same plan for the TL. New TL A-Spec with IMA, suspension upgrades, and reduced weight for around $37k.
Seventh, bring back the CL coupe based on the TL platform with the new RL drive-train. Add IMA, AWD, and upgraded suspension for A-Spec. Keep most of the luxury items in the A-Spec model. Target Audi S4 but with more power, better fuel economy, and better driving feel.
Eighth, add a new model above the RL. Target the Audi A8 and A8L with an A-Spec model to target the S8. Development of a V8 for this model would be good. High power V8 would also be good for an RL A-Spec to compete with Audi S6. Add turbo to V8 for M5 and RS6 competitor.
There is a lot of work that Honda needs to do.
SUV wise, there is a lot of money to be made. The MDX needs to be streamlined and fitted with the new motor from the RL to move it up into X5 territory. Add IMA for X5 4.8is competitor.
Introduce new SUV based on TSX platform to compete against X3.
Honda SUV line-up is decent. A real truck, not just the SUT, might be something to consider for the future unless the SUT really moves.
I hope someone at Honda is reading this stuff. They need to step up to really get the Acura brand up to its full potential.
05-13-2004, 01:11 PM
#7
Race Director
Not to jack this thread but with all of this talk of ever increasing HP cars I wonder how the discussion in car makers board rooms in the 70s went. I mean they were then talking about how few HPs they can offer and every year in the mid 70s the HP ratings were going down. I wonder if something like that will come back (due to gas crunch) and the HP ratings will go back down.
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05-13-2004, 01:11 PM
#8
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man, you read my mind there TSX hokie, i totally agree with changing the Accord sedan
but, if the civic had all of those options, wouldn't it hurt TSX sales because of the available HIDs, navi, and others trying to compete with the Mazda 3?
i would add to bring the CL back in that TL coupe form in AWD. then it would compete with the G35 coupe and Audi TT.
did you guys ever notice that the only convertible Honda has is the s2000?
but, if the civic had all of those options, wouldn't it hurt TSX sales because of the available HIDs, navi, and others trying to compete with the Mazda 3?
i would add to bring the CL back in that TL coupe form in AWD. then it would compete with the G35 coupe and Audi TT.
did you guys ever notice that the only convertible Honda has is the s2000?
05-13-2004, 01:17 PM
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I would just beg toyota to take Honda over and be done with it, instant sucess.
leave acura as the gap btwn toyota and lexus, with rebadged hondas/toyotas for its lineup.
1)move the RSX, TSX to Honda
2)use TL as entry luxury sedan
3)make a real sporsedan for acura to compete (RWD/AWD) with the BMW, MB (e.g. same idea as IS)
4) get going on a engine with 8+ cylinders
5) get some RWD platform
6) fire all existing acura sales and try to lure away lexus sales
7) teach concept of customer service to Acura
8) don't cheap out on brakes and outsource GM to make auto tranny's that are reliable. or just outsource brakes to toyota.
leave acura as the gap btwn toyota and lexus, with rebadged hondas/toyotas for its lineup. 1)move the RSX, TSX to Honda
2)use TL as entry luxury sedan
3)make a real sporsedan for acura to compete (RWD/AWD) with the BMW, MB (e.g. same idea as IS)
4) get going on a engine with 8+ cylinders
5) get some RWD platform
6) fire all existing acura sales and try to lure away lexus sales
7) teach concept of customer service to Acura
8) don't cheap out on brakes and outsource GM to make auto tranny's that are reliable. or just outsource brakes to toyota.
05-13-2004, 01:26 PM
#12
Photography Nerd
Re: If you were president of Honda...
Originally posted by TSX Hokie
If I were in charge of Honda's North American vehicles, this would be my car lineup, assuming there was money to do all these changes. The SUVs would all be the same; I don't know jack about them.
HONDA
Fit/Jazz for under $10k
Insight-keep it around just for novelty
Civic with same general exterior styling, but interior/performance to match the Mazda 3 (leather optional, HIDs, up to 160 HP, etc)
Accord sedan with the grille similar to the TSX and a less fugly butt. Everything else the same. Bring back the wagon.
Accord coupe-fix grille like on sedan
S2000: Wouldn't touch this beauty. Honda set out to make a pure sports car, and hit the nail on the head.
Add a fuel-efficient diesel engine option for the civic and accord, forget about hybrid, dump all R&D into fuel cell. Diesel gives you the same fuel economy as hybrid, without the extra weight, space, and reliability problems that come with batteries.
ACURA
Kill the RSX, sell it as Honda CRX.
Keep base TSX the same ($26.5k price fills a great niche)
Add TSX AWD for $29k. Would be slow as a dog, but so is the A4 1.8T Quattro, and it sells like mad.
Add TSX Type R for $32k. Turbo, AWD, stiffer suspension, wider tires, stock lowering, remove luxury gizmos to shave weight. Limited production.
Keep base TL the same.
Add AWD TL for $36k or so.
Add a performance/luxury coupe (2-door, 4-seater) on the S2000 platform with a 6-cyl making near 300 HP. $37k.
RL-good as it is.
NSX-update, obviously. Make it kick ass. I believe this is well underway.
Thoughts?
If I were in charge of Honda's North American vehicles, this would be my car lineup, assuming there was money to do all these changes. The SUVs would all be the same; I don't know jack about them.
HONDA
Fit/Jazz for under $10k
Insight-keep it around just for novelty
Civic with same general exterior styling, but interior/performance to match the Mazda 3 (leather optional, HIDs, up to 160 HP, etc)
Accord sedan with the grille similar to the TSX and a less fugly butt. Everything else the same. Bring back the wagon.
Accord coupe-fix grille like on sedan
S2000: Wouldn't touch this beauty. Honda set out to make a pure sports car, and hit the nail on the head.
Add a fuel-efficient diesel engine option for the civic and accord, forget about hybrid, dump all R&D into fuel cell. Diesel gives you the same fuel economy as hybrid, without the extra weight, space, and reliability problems that come with batteries.
ACURA
Kill the RSX, sell it as Honda CRX.
Keep base TSX the same ($26.5k price fills a great niche)
Add TSX AWD for $29k. Would be slow as a dog, but so is the A4 1.8T Quattro, and it sells like mad.
Add TSX Type R for $32k. Turbo, AWD, stiffer suspension, wider tires, stock lowering, remove luxury gizmos to shave weight. Limited production.
Keep base TL the same.
Add AWD TL for $36k or so.
Add a performance/luxury coupe (2-door, 4-seater) on the S2000 platform with a 6-cyl making near 300 HP. $37k.
RL-good as it is.
NSX-update, obviously. Make it kick ass. I believe this is well underway.
Thoughts?
Works for me. I would be very interested in a performance lux coupe/cabrio for my next car.
05-13-2004, 01:58 PM
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"2)use TL as entry luxury sedan"
Um, the TSX already competes just fine with the A4, 9-3, 325, and C-class. Why ask a much bigger/heavier car to compete with a bunch of smaller cars? The TL doesn't appeal to young people like the above cars do.
"3)make a real sporsedan for acura to compete (RWD/AWD) with the BMW, MB (e.g. same idea as IS)"
Again, the TSX already competes just fine. You are the only person that thinks drivetrain is the most important part of buying a car. I'll take perfectly-designed FWD (TSX) over crappy AWD (325xi) any day.
"4) get going on a engine with 8+ cylinders"
It's not like adding two cylinders to an engine is a technological marvel. It's a design choice, and Honda wants to be part of the solution, not part of the problem when it comes to conserving natural resources.
"5) get some RWD platform"
adding 200 lbs for marginally better driving dynamics with very high torque engines while ruining traction in snow is another design choice Honda doesn't want to make. RWD fits for 'sports cars', and the TWO 'sports cars' Honda sells are RWD. Granny in her luxury land-yatch is only going to get herself killed with RWD.
"6) fire all existing acura sales and try to lure away lexus sales"
The TL and TSX are more than 'luring away' sales from the IS300 and ES330, they are decimating them.
"7) teach concept of customer service to Acura"
Gilbo, you don't even own an Acura. How do you know how they treat their customers? My dealer has been great to me. You know, there are bad Lexus dealers out there.
"8) don't cheap out on brakes and outsource GM to make auto tranny's that are reliable. or just outsource brakes to toyota."
OK, I agree with Gilbo here
. Don't cut corners with the damn brakes. A dead customer isn't going to buy any more products from you.
Um, the TSX already competes just fine with the A4, 9-3, 325, and C-class. Why ask a much bigger/heavier car to compete with a bunch of smaller cars? The TL doesn't appeal to young people like the above cars do.
"3)make a real sporsedan for acura to compete (RWD/AWD) with the BMW, MB (e.g. same idea as IS)"
Again, the TSX already competes just fine. You are the only person that thinks drivetrain is the most important part of buying a car. I'll take perfectly-designed FWD (TSX) over crappy AWD (325xi) any day.
"4) get going on a engine with 8+ cylinders"
It's not like adding two cylinders to an engine is a technological marvel. It's a design choice, and Honda wants to be part of the solution, not part of the problem when it comes to conserving natural resources.
"5) get some RWD platform"
adding 200 lbs for marginally better driving dynamics with very high torque engines while ruining traction in snow is another design choice Honda doesn't want to make. RWD fits for 'sports cars', and the TWO 'sports cars' Honda sells are RWD. Granny in her luxury land-yatch is only going to get herself killed with RWD.
"6) fire all existing acura sales and try to lure away lexus sales"
The TL and TSX are more than 'luring away' sales from the IS300 and ES330, they are decimating them.
"7) teach concept of customer service to Acura"
Gilbo, you don't even own an Acura. How do you know how they treat their customers? My dealer has been great to me. You know, there are bad Lexus dealers out there.
"8) don't cheap out on brakes and outsource GM to make auto tranny's that are reliable. or just outsource brakes to toyota."
OK, I agree with Gilbo here
. Don't cut corners with the damn brakes. A dead customer isn't going to buy any more products from you.
05-13-2004, 02:08 PM
#15
Let's not forget, Hokie, that Acura has started farming out its brakes to Brembo.
And I agree that my Acura dealers (all of them that I've dealt with) have treated me really well. In fact, the Lexus dealers have always been a little arrogant and pompous. We has an experience with a Lexus dealer where the salesperson gave us a real attitude because my family was dressed for a beach weekend. Then, when we walked away and got into my dad's company BMW, the guy came crawling back, but had already lost the sale.
And I agree that my Acura dealers (all of them that I've dealt with) have treated me really well. In fact, the Lexus dealers have always been a little arrogant and pompous. We has an experience with a Lexus dealer where the salesperson gave us a real attitude because my family was dressed for a beach weekend. Then, when we walked away and got into my dad's company BMW, the guy came crawling back, but had already lost the sale.
05-13-2004, 03:41 PM
#16
Senior Moderator
1) Dump the Civic Si in favor of the Type R.
2) Give the Civic EX the current Si motor/tranny
3) Rename the RSX the Integra; import the Type R model
4) Make HIDS avail on Accord EX V6; make 17" wheel pkg an option
5) DUMP that Element thing
6) Make a more loaded version of the CR-V: Leather, Navi maybe.
7) Bump the MDX's HP/TQ above the '300' level
8) Give the TL a DOHC iVTEC version of its current motor (at least as a Type S or A-spec model)
9) Bump the TSX HP to AT LEAST be at the level of prev gen ATR.
10) NEW NSX!!!!!! (I know. Its almost here.)
My $.02
2) Give the Civic EX the current Si motor/tranny
3) Rename the RSX the Integra; import the Type R model
4) Make HIDS avail on Accord EX V6; make 17" wheel pkg an option
5) DUMP that Element thing
6) Make a more loaded version of the CR-V: Leather, Navi maybe.
7) Bump the MDX's HP/TQ above the '300' level
8) Give the TL a DOHC iVTEC version of its current motor (at least as a Type S or A-spec model)
9) Bump the TSX HP to AT LEAST be at the level of prev gen ATR.
10) NEW NSX!!!!!! (I know. Its almost here.)
My $.02
05-13-2004, 05:29 PM
#17
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I would first ask the board of directors...
...why I am not being paid MORE than Daimler-Chrysler CEO Jürgen Schrempp instead of LESS.
(For laughs I might put the V10 or V12 racing engine and a 6M or 7M transmission into the Odyssey minivan, but that's about it.)
Honda is doing better than most car (and minivan, SUV, motorcycle, scooter, lawnmower, ATV, jet-ski, snowblower, etc etc) manufacturers.
(For laughs I might put the V10 or V12 racing engine and a 6M or 7M transmission into the Odyssey minivan, but that's about it.)
Honda is doing better than most car (and minivan, SUV, motorcycle, scooter, lawnmower, ATV, jet-ski, snowblower, etc etc) manufacturers.
05-13-2004, 07:46 PM
#18
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The TL and TSX are more than 'luring away' sales from the IS300 and ES330, they are decimating them
The TSX is one of the few sub entry level luxury cars (whatever the hell that is). Like the Volvo S40 and old G20. Acura chooses niches, it does not fight head to head.
05-13-2004, 08:44 PM
#19
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April 2004 Sales:
ES330: 6,460
IS300: 884
TL: 6,711
TSX: 2,367
No doubt the IS will pick up ground with the new model. But the concepts I have seen are coupes. We'll see.
ES330: 6,460
IS300: 884
TL: 6,711
TSX: 2,367
No doubt the IS will pick up ground with the new model. But the concepts I have seen are coupes. We'll see.
05-13-2004, 10:45 PM
#20
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Honda:
Fit/Jazz/-11-15k
CRX- 127hp, 160hp, 2200-2400lbs-13-16k
Civic(coupe, sedan, 5door, hybrid)-moved up market -15k-19k
Civic HB Si (190hp)-current price
Accord(coupe, sedan, hybrid)- current price
Element- honda has this right
CRV- 20k-24k- move up market
Odyessy- honda has this right
Pilot- honda has this right
Insight-honda has it right
S200O- perfect
Acura:
RSX- updated to acuras new image
TSX- (sedan, wagon)-current price
TL- leave as is
CL- next gen s2000 platform, 4 seater, hardtop convert. or coupe 270hp
RL- the new one sounds good
GL-full size sedan SH-AWD,330ho(aspec RL motor)-370hp(detuned NSX motor)- 60k-70k
NSX- 400-450hp-lil bit higher than current price
RDX-200hp
MDX-300hp
Aspec for acura: add 3000-4000 dollars
RSX- add 20hp
TSX- add AWD and 30hp
TL- add AWD and 30hp
CL- add 30hp
RL- add 30 hp
GL- maybe different name than aspec use detuned NSX motor
RDX-add 30hp, AWD
MDX- add 30hp
hybrid available for RL and GL
Fit/Jazz/-11-15k
CRX- 127hp, 160hp, 2200-2400lbs-13-16k
Civic(coupe, sedan, 5door, hybrid)-moved up market -15k-19k
Civic HB Si (190hp)-current price
Accord(coupe, sedan, hybrid)- current price
Element- honda has this right
CRV- 20k-24k- move up market
Odyessy- honda has this right
Pilot- honda has this right
Insight-honda has it right
S200O- perfect
Acura:
RSX- updated to acuras new image
TSX- (sedan, wagon)-current price
TL- leave as is
CL- next gen s2000 platform, 4 seater, hardtop convert. or coupe 270hp
RL- the new one sounds good
GL-full size sedan SH-AWD,330ho(aspec RL motor)-370hp(detuned NSX motor)- 60k-70k
NSX- 400-450hp-lil bit higher than current price
RDX-200hp
MDX-300hp
Aspec for acura: add 3000-4000 dollars
RSX- add 20hp
TSX- add AWD and 30hp
TL- add AWD and 30hp
CL- add 30hp
RL- add 30 hp
GL- maybe different name than aspec use detuned NSX motor
RDX-add 30hp, AWD
MDX- add 30hp
hybrid available for RL and GL
05-13-2004, 10:55 PM
#21
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Re: If you were president of Honda...
Originally posted by TSX Hokie
Accord sedan with the grille similar to the TSX and a less fugly butt. Everything else the same. Bring back the wagon.
Add a fuel-efficient diesel engine option for the civic and accord, forget about hybrid, dump all R&D into fuel cell. Diesel gives you the same fuel economy as hybrid, without the extra weight, space, and reliability problems that come with batteries.
ACURA
Kill the RSX, sell it as Honda CRX.
Add TSX Type R for $32k. Turbo, AWD, stiffer suspension, wider tires, stock lowering, remove luxury gizmos to shave weight. Limited production.
Add a performance/luxury coupe (2-door, 4-seater) on the S2000 platform with a 6-cyl making near 300 HP. $37k.
Accord sedan with the grille similar to the TSX and a less fugly butt. Everything else the same. Bring back the wagon.
Add a fuel-efficient diesel engine option for the civic and accord, forget about hybrid, dump all R&D into fuel cell. Diesel gives you the same fuel economy as hybrid, without the extra weight, space, and reliability problems that come with batteries.
ACURA
Kill the RSX, sell it as Honda CRX.
Add TSX Type R for $32k. Turbo, AWD, stiffer suspension, wider tires, stock lowering, remove luxury gizmos to shave weight. Limited production.
Add a performance/luxury coupe (2-door, 4-seater) on the S2000 platform with a 6-cyl making near 300 HP. $37k.
They should add a Civic wagon to complete with the Matrix/Vibe and Mazda3 Sport.
I see hybrids as a bridge technology to wean drivers away from petrol. There's just so much infrastructure, it's going to take decades to transition. Honda does have some FCV concepts running around. Diesel remains a tough sell in NA, especially when overall pollution is taken into account.
They should kill the RSX to make room for the CTR in that segment.
TSX-R for $32k better be faster than a TL 6MT, which I think is a stretch, even for Honda (unless a turbo). Otherwise, they should strip out the lux and trade for speed at the same $26k price.
Acura coupe - why not a 2-door TL with the RL engine and SH-AWD?
05-13-2004, 11:10 PM
#22
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
The ES 330 is outselling the TL dude. Not by much but it is outselling it.
The ES 330 is outselling the TL dude. Not by much but it is outselling it.
autosite
05-13-2004, 11:13 PM
#23
bleh...
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The Accord would look better if the front end grille was chrome like the Chinese version. Also, the rear should be redesigned altogether, however, again I like the Chinese Accord cuz the rear has some chrome wrapped around the tail lights. Essentially, the Accord is the same car.
Another interesting vehicle to note on the Chinese Honda website is the Fit Aria and the Odyssey.
Chinese built Hondas
Another interesting vehicle to note on the Chinese Honda website is the Fit Aria and the Odyssey.
Chinese built Hondas
05-14-2004, 07:45 AM
#24
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by phile
You got it backwards. As of March this year, the latest that autosite.com has, the TL has sold 18,620 units, the ES has sold 17,676. And if you include the numbers TSX Hokie listed for April, the TL is still ahead, albeit not by a lot. But the point is, you're wrong. And I'm not saying that to be mean, but you are incorrect.
autosite
You got it backwards. As of March this year, the latest that autosite.com has, the TL has sold 18,620 units, the ES has sold 17,676. And if you include the numbers TSX Hokie listed for April, the TL is still ahead, albeit not by a lot. But the point is, you're wrong. And I'm not saying that to be mean, but you are incorrect.
autosite
As for the IS300 replacement, it's currently called the Lexus LF-S and will more than likely be a direct competitor with the G35 Coupe:
AND, it will do the G35C TWO better by being: a) V8 powered (i.e.: CLK500) and b) have AWD. NOTE: Prior to the North American auto show, it was thought that this was going to be the new GS; however, the NYIAS revealed a totally different GS replacement (to compete with the M35/M45).
Anyway, it looks like Nissan might have awakened a sleeping giant in Toyota.
Peace.
05-14-2004, 08:24 AM
#25
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Are they going to make a sedan version of that? The current-gen IS300 is a great concept (copy what makes the 3-series great, add a little power, and sell a bit cheaper). Lexus just missed on the implementation (shoddy interior, whacky styling).
Combine the IS300 engine and drivetrain with the TSX's interior and a stylish but understated exterior, sell it for only a tad over $30k, and you may have the perfect sports sedan.
Combine the IS300 engine and drivetrain with the TSX's interior and a stylish but understated exterior, sell it for only a tad over $30k, and you may have the perfect sports sedan.
05-14-2004, 09:17 AM
#26
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This thread was a great idea.
If only a certain BMW ass-licking Toyota lover did'nt include his 0.2 cents.
Honda
Accord - Ext redesign and maybe 10 more HP (Don't forget Hybrid is on its way already)
Civic - Complete redesign, more sport should be the focus. That is what made the Civic a sucess in the first place and thats the formula Mazda is now using with the 3.
Fit - Just bring it. With the fuel crisis its a no brainer.
Ody - The info we have so far says winner. All looks good considering the fact that the competition only matched the current version, and even thats debatetable.
Pilot - 250HP coming this fall, all looks good.
CR-V - Minor changes coming thisi fall as well including 5 sp Auto for improved mileage. Again all looks good, although I'd like to see a slightly larger version with at least an optional V6 in the future.
Element - Again all looks good. I'd like to see an Optional V6 in the future as well, but we'll have to wait for the redesign.
S2000 - Status quo
Acura
RSX - More HP and peroformance, which is a no brainer.
EL (Canada Only) - Kill it, Civic Si Sedan now fills this spot.
TSX - More power, thats it.
TL - AWD version, its a must and likely at this point.
RL - Looks good does'nt it?
XL - Premium Luxury Acura to compete with the LS. Hybrid power a must.
NSX - HSC looks good to me. Although 400HP is an absolute minimum. If rumours are true and the RL can outlap a Skyline, imagine what a SH-AWD equipped NSX could do?
CX - RWD coupe with a standard high output V6 to compete with the 350Z, G35 Coupe and future Lexus Coupe among others. 300HP a must. Covertible option as well.
RD-X - Its on its way, thats good enough for me.
As a side note, Rumour has it Yamaha has developed a 230HP 2.4L I4 for Toyota (Because Toyota obviously is'nt capable) for use in the future Celica. A 240HP TSX should be easily accomplished.
If only a certain BMW ass-licking Toyota lover did'nt include his 0.2 cents.
Honda
Accord - Ext redesign and maybe 10 more HP (Don't forget Hybrid is on its way already)
Civic - Complete redesign, more sport should be the focus. That is what made the Civic a sucess in the first place and thats the formula Mazda is now using with the 3.
Fit - Just bring it. With the fuel crisis its a no brainer.
Ody - The info we have so far says winner. All looks good considering the fact that the competition only matched the current version, and even thats debatetable.
Pilot - 250HP coming this fall, all looks good.
CR-V - Minor changes coming thisi fall as well including 5 sp Auto for improved mileage. Again all looks good, although I'd like to see a slightly larger version with at least an optional V6 in the future.
Element - Again all looks good. I'd like to see an Optional V6 in the future as well, but we'll have to wait for the redesign.
S2000 - Status quo
Acura
RSX - More HP and peroformance, which is a no brainer.
EL (Canada Only) - Kill it, Civic Si Sedan now fills this spot.
TSX - More power, thats it.
TL - AWD version, its a must and likely at this point.
RL - Looks good does'nt it?
XL - Premium Luxury Acura to compete with the LS. Hybrid power a must.
NSX - HSC looks good to me. Although 400HP is an absolute minimum. If rumours are true and the RL can outlap a Skyline, imagine what a SH-AWD equipped NSX could do?
CX - RWD coupe with a standard high output V6 to compete with the 350Z, G35 Coupe and future Lexus Coupe among others. 300HP a must. Covertible option as well.
RD-X - Its on its way, thats good enough for me.
As a side note, Rumour has it Yamaha has developed a 230HP 2.4L I4 for Toyota (Because Toyota obviously is'nt capable) for use in the future Celica. A 240HP TSX should be easily accomplished.
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