My friend has a Audi A4 3.0 Quattro fully loaded and my other friend has a BMW 325i with sport package. ( both brand new) Through a wooded, mountainous and curvy area, which one would have the upper hand. The Audi driver says he could take him anyday, but everyone i talk to says the bmw would spank him. I was thinking that since the Audi has 220hp and the BMW has 184hp, it shouldnt be a question.

 

I'd say 325, but thats a guess. I've never driven a A4 3.0.

Tell your friends there's only one way to find out, but play safe.

 

The Audi weighs about 10% more than the Bimmer, although its extra torque gives it a few tenths of a second advantage in 0-60. On a twisty road, however, tires, suspension, braking, and weight are more important than raw engine power. The BMW is better at all of those (guessing on tires; most people getting the sport package on a 325i opt for the summer tires). But like Domn said, the cars are close enough in performance that it would be a driver's race. Tell em to go to an autocross and decide it there ;-) I would never advocate racing on public roads.

 

Domn's right. There are too many variables to take into account (e.g. road condition, weather, presence of loose materials on road, etc.) to really make a good prediction. Plus, how well the two cars handle depend greatly on the skill of the drivers.

 

CGTSX2004, I think you mean TSX Hokie's right. But anyway, I agree with both of you. Keep them off the street. But maybe zamboni386 is asking because they have no plans to actually race?

 

That would be a really close race. There is also about a 18% driveline loss with the Quattro system compared to the ~10% loss on the 325i. I think the BMW is also better under braking so that could make quite a difference as well.

It certainly wouldn't be a blowout for either car. I recommend an AutoX like TSX Hokie suggested.

 

Actually, I was writing my post while Hokie was posting his so I didn't get to read it, but essentially, you guys said the same thing about having them try it to find out.

 

If they don't feel comfortable racing their cars Zamboni, just let me know and I'll put them through their paces for your friends!

 

With only one working foot to boot !!!

I'd be glad to provide the competition Dan

Dan, since we're off topic. I wondered but never asked or could rememeber. You changing your avatar reminded me. Why did you have a Bimmer in you Avartar? Do you own one? And if so which is it? 330, 25 etc?

 

They both have 5ATs. So would this play a large factor. Does BMW make better trannies than audis. just a question to consider. Thanks guys!! They arent really going to race, way to dangerous.. Its more like some one will push it and see if the other one can keep up, its that sort of thing. Thanks again

 

If it's curvy and mountainous, wouldn't the Audi's AWD give it a slight advantage?

 

I dont know if you guys read the thread correctly but he said a 325i which is a basic 184hp. I think the Audi 3.0 Quattro would spank the hell out of it because on curvy roads those awds will take any corner its clean I have personal experince.

 

I'd say the balance and dynamics of the BMW would win by just a bit if you were doing time trails in each car, but that's all in the driver. I could probably kill most drivers with a loaner car RSX if the guy that was in a 325i or an A4 3.0Q wasn't a good driver. It makes a huge difference. It's not like they're going to drive their cars, then the other guy's, and then check their times. It's a question that really has no answer unless they just go shoot it out.

 

BMW's auto trannies are made by GM. Wheather that factors in to this, I doubt it. Just thought I'd mention it.

 

I agree, he did say the 325i (not the 330i) vs. the 3.0 A4 (not the 1.8T).

I would pick BMW in both 325i vs A4 1.8T and 330i vs. A4 3.0 assuming they were all stock vehicles and both running the same transmission (auto or stick). However, if you put the 325i up against the 3.0 A4, I think the A4 would have the advantage.

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=7785

The audi

"That's not to say the Audi is a clumsy, fat parody of a sports sedan. Far from it. The A4 conducts itself with considerable poise, feeling predictable and planted in fast bends, with no handling vices to speak of. It's just a bit heavy (at 3700 pounds, the heaviest in this group) and needs all its 220 horsepower to help propel that mass out of tight corners.

The car's steering was uniformly praised for smoothness and accuracy, and almost as often criticized for being overly light and somewhat incommunicative about the tires' contact patches. A few laps scratching around the tortuous Streets of Willow test track in the California high desert made it clear that although this is no track toy it is undoubtedly safe and predictable."

The beemer..

"That's balance for you, and the following logbook entries help illustrate that fact: "An easy car to drive fast; you pretty much know what it's going to do." "This 325i is really buttoned down in the twisties." "The steering is beautifully direct and nicely weighted." "Again, the BMW guys reveal their genius for tuning." "Isolation is good, yet communication through the controls is clear and confidence inspiring." "Ho-hum, the usual brilliant balance between ride and handling.""

I think this makes it farily fucking obvious that the audi would lose out in the twisties..

 

Really depends on how twisty the road is and how much the drivers are willing to risk.

The A4 is almost 4000 pounds. The 325 is really slow with the automatic (manual, the 325i is faster than A4 3.0 to 60 mph). If there are enough straights, the A4 really stands a better chance.

But if the road is truly as twisty as it sounds, then I would put money on the 3 series. When driving the B6 A4, I feel nervous even on fast highway on ramps. When driving an E46, I feel more confident the harder I push it. Something about the suspension tuning on the 3 series that just instills complete confidence. The steering is a wonder as well. The A4 isn't nearly as communicative and can be kind of worrying to drive fast. Plus it feels fat and rolls a lot more.

Of course in my personal opinion (see my sig) the A4 would be much much faster because the 325i would be on the side of the road with something or other broken. Then again the A4 would probably be suffering some sort of mechanical ailment too.

Moral of the story: TSX would be the fastest. :P

 

from the Car and Driver article comparison a few months back..a 325i will out accelerate , outbrake and outhandle a A4 3.0 quattro and have better MPG in the process ...and have yet to take into the account the intangibles such as confidence, balance, etc..things that enable a driver to be more comfortable to push their car..the A4 3.0 is a sweet ride, but performance wise its not match for even a 325i...

 

This reminds me of when I test drove the TSX and the dorky salesman went with me. He told me not to slow down into the next corner and when we came out of it, he said, "Do you see how well this cars sticks to the road? You aren't going to find handling like that in cars twice the price!" I started to laugh, because we were in a 30mph zone and it was a long sweeping the corner, not a hairpin turn. A Geo Metro could have held that corner at 50mph.
Yes, BMW's handle very well and have amazing balance, but that doesn't mean they are always going to be faster. Audi's are great cars, that 3.0 engine is very nice and quattro is still the best AWD system around. However, I have yet to drive the G35x with intelligent AWD, they might be on to something there!

 

whenever someone starts talking about "twisties" I cringe in horror.

 

I wish it was mine! :'(

It was a 2003 M3 with the SMG transmission. It was mine for the day at the BMW Performance Driving School (level 2).

 

I would be sadly disappointed if the A4 (3.0) didn't wipe the road off with the bimmer (325).

 

WHAAAAAAAAAAT?
SERIOUSLY?
NAAAAAAAAH!

 

Some people here take it for granted that awd is gonna be faster on twisties. I don't think so. Not always the case. It's still largely depends on how the manufacturer tunes it.

In this comparo, I think BMW will win if the road is really twisty (2nd gear corner all the way?)

 

JUST SO YOU ALL KNOW.. i am that guy with the A4 3.0. We all finally did an autocross, TSX vs A43.0 vs 325i. Results were..

1st place with fastest lap and fastest over time - A4 3.0
2nd - 325i - Two seconds off fastest lap of a4 3.0
3rd - TSX - the worst driver in the world. ZAMBONI - 5 seconds off fastest lap of A4....


Just so you all know.. my fastest lap was a 25.86 Not a very big autocross..


ohh.. zamboni in real life is a tool.

 

 

This doesn't prove anything. One big piece of information is missing here. What are the experience levels of the 3 drivers? If one is more experienced, and one is a noob, of course the noob is gonna be slower. You need to have ONE experienced and consistant driver to drive all 3 cars at least twice for comparison.

BTW, what are the blue things on the sides of the front bumper of the A4?

 

blue things - tape for protection against paint from rockchips/cones.

WE ALL recieved our licenses months apart from one another.. we ALL have same experience.

 

I think the experience vwong refers to is autocross experience. It's quite impossible that TSX is 5 secs off from A4 3.0 in a 25 sec course. That has to be the difference in driving skill. And I actually managed about 4 sec off from my buddy's Audi S4 V8 in a 65 sec course. (we're <1 sec apart when we race in the same car)

 

Being a former A4 3.0 quattro owner (granted, mine was a 6 speed), I must say that it does not surprise me that the Audi took the race. Sure, there are lots of variables. Regardless, the quattro is awesome and would give the Audi enough extra traction to take the BMW 325. I also agree that the tsx time was hurt by the driver - those darn variables.

If you haven't driven the A4 3.0 - go test drive it for fun. I would still be driving mine if it had been more reliable.

 

Unless it was the same driver in all three cars it's not really a good comparison.

 

isn't this like comparing penises???

I have a skinny 10 incher and tyrone has a fat 6incher. which do you prefer???

 

im the bmw 325i driver, although i admit defeat in my autocross senior project i must say that your fastest time was 25.86, my fastest was 26.21 so your orginal TWO second win is realy a fraction of a second, another thing is we timed this with one stopwatch go and figure how truly accurate it was. Also gregs (zamboni) 5+ second time was when he missed two gates he had a 27.XX time in there. But were both equal losers for going and posting in Greg's acura forum

 

I would think that the audi would own the bimmer in less than ideal weather conditions. But nonetheless, too many variables that may have an effect on the outcome.