biker

Our source reports that Honda is in the final stages of development for three new engines destined for the US, including a 2.0L 4 cylinder and a 2.4L 4 banger. One of these engines will probably be slotted into the Civic Si, respectively. What’s more, Honda is bringing to market its first US application of a turbocharger in the form of a 2.4L Turbo. This engine will presumably be fitted into the Acura TSX, or perhaps even a high output Civic slotted above the Si.

jiggaman

holy shiat! i hope its true!

biker

EDIT: domn - You didn't forget Biker Check yor PM's.

dom

I'll go on record to say that a 250HP TSX OWNZ all, end of story, good night.

Dan Martin

I'll take one.

biker

Some more of the info from another site:

While our source could not confirm whether or not it would be a DOHC i-VTEC, he hinted that it would not be affixed to the current K24 engine that Honda uses in the TSX, Accord and Element. No horsepower figures are available, but expect the Civic Si’s powerplant to produce around 200 horses while the turbo should make about 250.

biker

07 makeover with maybe AWD, 250HP and still below 30K - gotta do something to keep the sales up.

dom

Keeping it below 30K will be the tough part.

Time for a stripper TSX with no leather, sunroof, 250W Ster, Xeons etc

Precision Crafted

Now this is good news!! With Honda's ability to make one heck of an engine, I'm sure this will rock. Now will this be a standard engine for the TSX or possibly a model in the vain of Type S or what ever. If it is a higher end model (as it should as some may not want a turbo) Acura "could" make A-Spec more then just a visual and body kit package.

Also, didn't the Oracle say last year that after the the RDX's appeared the TSX could get a new tranny?? At the time there was talk on this board about paddle shifters for something along the lines of Audi/VW DSG. Now that sort of tranny mated to a turbo would be sweet.

Also not to beat a dead horse, but does this news change that the RDX's engine could be???

xizor

I think i'd rather see a 2007 TSX be Mazdaspeed 6 competition rather than the civic-like Evo/Sti

dom

Thats the problem. The MS6 is less than 30K. No way Acura can offer a Turbo AWD TSX for less than 30K while keeping all the lux items. I just can't see it. I also can't see the TSX getting AWD period. So a Turbo FWD TSX for under 30 is more realistic IMO.

Precision Crafted

I don't see AWD either and at "only" 250hp AWD isn't needed.

foolioness

250hp on 2.4L? I prefer to see 250hp and about 240 tq on a 2.0L on a TSX. Will that ever happen? *Wishfull thinking*

Precision Crafted

I'm not an engineer, but why the smaller displacement?

kurt_bradley

Provided Honda finally sticks an LSD in a sporting JDM car that goes stateside.

Precision Crafted

That would be nice. The CL-S 6 spd and the TL 6 spd have LSD so there is always hope.

ianS

There was already an rumor for a Turbo EuroR with AWD on a Dec 2003 Option. Too bad I dun have a scanner to scan the pic of that Turbo EuroR but it seems photoshopped to me. So I am not really buying this rumor at that time.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Ooh...yummy...and just in time for my lease to expire...

provench

Well ... there goes my 6 year plan for my current TSX

I like my TSX, but I would drop it in a heartbeat for a turbo version that had about 250HP more from the factory. To be honest ... FWD+LSD would be fine for me as the AWD might be too much weight

Either way ... I hate hearing these type of rumors ... cause they usually end up making me switch cars

TSX 'R' US

the voices has started again...

TSX 'R' US

Oh yeah...I think I drooled all over my keyboard

dom

I think I'm hearing the same voices provench is hearing

jiggaman

biker, what is our source mean?

Precision Crafted

Jeff at Temple of VTEC has been saying from some time that there may be a possible Turbo for the US. We've already read where the new Civic range is getting new engines. Well the "Windy City" Auto show is next week and the Civic is suppose to debut so maybe we'll hear more about powertrains then.

biker

All of the text was a cut and paste from another site - they must have an insider like Justin.

emperuman

Just out of ignorance... how does FWD+LSD help better the handling. I presume its not as good as AWD, but a reasonable second place ???

foolioness

Smaller displacement bigger output. Less weight. I dunno. The way I see it, current 2.4L 200hp, next generation 2.4L turbo 250hp? With a turbo it should gain more HP. Well maybe it'll have 250 TQ also, who knows. Just wishful thinking that's all

mg7726

that would be an awesome TSX.

i just hope honda adds more to the handling, *cough*a-spec suspension*cough* and *cough*bigger sway*cough*...

i agree it doesn't need AWD, but i would like LSD along with the added turbo

'07 is going to be a good year! but i'm not going to be a ginuea pig, everybody can trade in first

jwb998

With the 2.4L turbo you could have a much lighter pressure turbo to make 250hp then in a 2.0. That usually means far less turbo lag. I would also bet the lower pressure turbo engine would last longer, be safer for Honda. On the other hand, they are engine wizards and I would trust just about anything they did.

How will I ever convince my wife we need to trade in the car we bought 40 days ago in 2 years?

sauceman

They could (theoretially) combine their new direct injection system with an adapted version of the K24A2 running the same 10.5:1 CR, but with high boost, as high as 1 Bar (14.3 PSI). As long as it's done with direct injection, they could do pretty mad CR and boost figures on pump gas.

jmf

Could this be the setup in the new Civic Si? 2.4L modestly turbocharged to put out around 250 hp-that would handle low-end acceleration to make one fast machine through the entire rpm range. If the car weighed around 2700 lbs. with a six speed....you see where this is going.

Precision Crafted

I don't see it going in the Si. Honda has gotten flack for not letting Acura having the lux car image. Sure the 2.4t would do great compaired to the Cobolt SS, and Neon SRT-4. If 200 hp didn't mean the end to the RSX, 250hp sure would.

If the 2.4t is reality, then it'll be an Acura motor first. Some Honda application may come in time if the brass thinks there is a market willing to pay for the price increase. As has been mentioned before, the TSX will be getting some new/ improved competition from Audi, BMW, and the replacement for the M-B C-class.

jmf

The motor could be used in both, why not? They are moving the NSX replacement to Honda, why not a performance Civic without all the amenities? You could still, then, put a turbo in the TSX. But doesn't that kill the TL? Luxury is refined looks and amenities, not just more speed. Forced induction comes on all types of vehicles from the factory.

As for the Civic, why put leather in a car that the target buyer is just going to replace with a couple of Sparco seats? You can keep the price of the new Si down a little lower than the TSX or a turbo RSX by losing leather and other "luxury" features. Plus people are going to expect to pay a few grand more for a turbocharged replacement of the existing Si. I would pay five grand more just to trade in that ugly minivan looking si for that new concept. (Sorry all you Si owners, but its true).

These are two different markets with some overlap. The TSX might not even be in the equation. How has it worked best for Honda in the past to capture the market? Civic Si and and Integra. Maybe they will do the Si and then in two years release the RSX or its replacement with a little higher pricetag and a few more horses and gadgets.

Precision Crafted

I was unaware that the NSX replacement was moving to Honda in the US. You are right in that there is some overlap. However the problem with the RSX is that where does it fit in with Acura as we know it now?

Honda had to do something as the current Si just didn't make the cut and others were gaining some market recognition.

A 2.4t in the TSX will not kill the TL. One of the reasons I bought a TL over the TSX was the extra stuff I was use to with my soon to be departed '02 TL. Memory seating is a god send if someone else drives your car. Rear seat vents are nice for those in back. For once I wouldn't have to hold the sunroof button to open/ close the thing. I also like the idea of Bi-Xenon lights among some other things.

The RSX replacement you talked about could be the rumored coupe Acura is working on. Now whether or not they choose to base the thing off of the TSX or TL is another quesiton.

kaikai114

I agree a 2.4T in the TSX won't kill the TL. It is like people are out there buying 525i over 325i with almost 10k extra greens, same engine, but they get both extra status, luxury and gadgets. Imho, TL and TSX are aimed at their own separate markets. TSX'ers are more focused on the handling aspects, I4 instead of V6 for example to keep the car more balanced. TL'ers are focused more on refined luxury, softer leather seats, bluetooth, V6 etc. Basically, people won't go buying the new 2005 RSX Type-S over the TSX just because it has more hp. I'm guessing and ing that the TSX will definitely get the 2.4L turbo as a step-up version. Wonder what it's gonna be called too, TSXST? lol that'd be koo

sauceman

[QUOTE=jmf] They are moving the NSX replacement to Honda, [/QUOTE

I dunno zhere you got that; Please tell me what your sources are?

Edit: sorry for the bad typing; my friggin keyboard owns me!

edit 2: Test 12345,./';[] ... Good. Working now!

kaikai114

i really doubt that they're moving the NSX to honda, it doesnt make any sense in doing that. last time i read a magazine saying that Honda is moving itself away from super race cars market and focus more on middle-size family sedans and vans, i'll have to see if i find the source for that. If Honda is moving the next gen NSX to Honda, they might as well just close down Acura, after all Acura is all about higher lvl performance and luxury.

Precision Crafted

Your correct! I read that in a press release. Not sure if it was Honda's news web page or what, but I read it. This is why I do not believe there will be a replacement for the NSX or S2K. Since the shift of focus is for regular passenger cars, then Acura can look at performance variations. Acura did recently say that when IMA comes the focus will be on performance.

The NSX was and still is a great car. Not take what they've learned after all these years and bring to the TSX, TL, RL, and maybe the MDX then Lexus will not be the only ones looking at having an in-house tuner.

rb1

Yes, but a larger engine also requires bigger turbo that can supply the additional air flow, which also means longer to spool and more lag.

You can put an itty bitty turbo on the 2.4 and eliminate the lag, but it won't be able to sustain the air flow at higher RPM and Honda likes engines that make high-end power.

On the other hand, a turbo completely changes the torque curve and adds a huge mount of low-end grunt, even to a small motor. I know, I have a stock 150 hp 1.8T that pulls hard from 1800 RPM on up. Sure, the party's largely over by the mid 5000 range, hence the only 150 hp, but who needs it for daily driving when you have so much pull at the low end.

kaikai114

Nowadays if i read something, I better archive it down. I read it either from www.vtec.net or somewhere that the next gen NSX will be at least 500hp with a "TURBO" setup... well not that i can afford one... yet It probably won't be named NSX, but who knows, that name has built itself upon some serious performance from year to year, so I hope they won't change the name. Lexus for example, moved out of the super race car segment for a while, and now they realize the need to have a car in that segment and came out with that super car prototype called LX something. Same with Nissan/Infiniti coming out with the new Skyline (similar to the current G35 coupe with different front bumper and a MEAN engine), and will most likely come to the US with a left hand driver seat. So with 2 of its biggest rivals having supercars in the making, I seriously think Honda won't lag behind with a supercar. Now whether it's going to be a V6 turbo or a V8 is anybody's guess... personally I'd love to see the Mugen V8 500hp+ shoved in the next supercar... you can find more pictures and details on that Mugen V8 on www.vtec.net Either way, I'll keep dreaming and start drooling!!!

Kevin