provench

Ok ok .... NSX talk ... another thread ... you know the drill

We can't bloat perhaps the best TSX prediction thread ... evar

I just hope it's in 2008 so I can hit the 4 year ownership mark

jmf

I will find it somewhere. I think it was in Autoweek or MotorTrend or one of those magazines. The picture of the concept is sick. Almost as sick as the new Lexus supercar.

Well, first you read Honda is making more Minivans, then they release the new Si concept to keep up with Scion and the Cobalt SS and all the other sport compacts runnning around. Auto manufacturers have to change with changing demand. There is a renewed focus on horsepower and 0 to 60 these days, and the tuner market is now mainstream. Plus, think about it. Honda put out the Prelude and the S2000, why not a supercar with a big "H" in the middle. Honda racing, bro. In Japan, luxury labels don't even exist, as I'm sure you know. They are all Honda and Toyota and Nissan. Plus, in America, there are plenty great sportscars with the non-lux label such as Toyota Supra, Nissan Z series, Evo, Mazda Rx's, and the aforementioned Honda cars.

jmf

I found stuff all over the internet about the NSX replacement: the HSC, or Honda Sport Concept. It is rumored to have a 3.5L V-6 that "puts out as much power as either a V-8 or V-10." Can you say direct competition with the new turbocharged GTR heading for US shores? There was also talk about it being ultra-low emissions, having great fuel economy, and a possible 4-seater. Don't let that fool you; it is one mean-and fast-looking machine. I also read that Honda wanted to explore its racing heritage with the new HSC. Sorry more NSX stuff we should start a new thread.

kaikai114

then we can from there

provench

Yeah ... a new thread ... thanks for listening the first time

AlterZgo

Not true. A larger displacement engine will make more power at low RPMs than a smaller displacement engine regardless of what turbo you are using. It's simple physics. Larger displacment = more torque/hp. This is why a Subaru Legacy GT with its 2.5L turbo motor feels much more powerful than a WRX motor with its 2.0L turbo.

There is no need to go to a tiny turbo to enhance low end grunt. A properly sized turbocharger will have no problem generating excellent low and high RPM power on a 2.4 liter engine. You can't really compare your german 1.8T engine to what a Japanese mfg puts out. Look at the past turbocharged Japanese cars (300ZX TT, Supra TT, RX-7 TT, Subaru Sti, Mitsu Evo, etc.) All of these cars put out good low RPM hp and strong high RPM power. We are talking about Honda engineers, not some lame VW/Audi engineer.

Besides, if they are targeting 250 hp, it won't require a huge, laggy turbo. Nowadays, the only turbos that have significant turbo lag are cheap, poorly designed turbos or huge turbos that are designed to put out 600+ hp. Even turbochargers that can generate 350-400 hp nowadays have excellent low RPM response.

rb1

I didn't say that, I just said that a larger engine requires a larger turbo to maintain the air flow at higher RPM.

Almost by definition, larger turbos take longer to spool and thus have more noticeable turbo lag. Sure, the larger displacement motor starts off making more power down low, but that doesn't make the "sling-shot" effect of the turbo spooling up any less noticeable.



Sorry, bud, but the 1.8T has been on Ward's 10 Best Engines list several times. Nothing lame about it.

http://www.primedia.com/pr/press/engines01092002/

dom

Especially chipped. A 180HP 1.8 than puts 155 HP to the wheels puts ~220HP to the wheels with a chip and gets better MPG to boot

ClutchPerformer

I hope that's not true.

jmf

Which part?

savage

if they have a package that tight in 2-3 years i will seriously consider as my next toy, especially if they can keep it under 33-34grand....

iamhomin

For all of you that are dying to trade-in their current TSX for a possibly 250hp turbo'd TSX, or eve desparate to do so if it ever happens, why didn't you guys consider the TL?

Not an attack, just a question.

bob shiftright

I did!

Also the 240hp Accord V6.

My reason for buying the TSX instead of the Accord/TL was that it's smaller and handles better.

I'm a current Volvo turbo owner and I bought my first Saab 22 years ago. You didn't ask, but my main reason for favoring the TSX over another Volvo or another Saab is that I don't like worrying about being stranded by the side of the road waiting for a tow truck.

I'd also trade my TSX for a TSX Turbo.

tuan209

actually i doubt there will be a turbo. i think honda can squeeze out 230-240hp and about 180lb of torque with this current engine or a revision of it. id take that over a turbo version anyday as I dont like turbos.

joerockt

Dude, you shoud know better by now to ask a question like this. I think its been said quite often that the handling of the TSX far excedes that of the TL's. Many people chose the TSX because of this reason, at the sacrifice of power.

rb1

I went around and searched for a dyno of the new 2.0T FSI from Audi/VW. Here is what a very small turbo and small displacement motor can do. And, you can see both the stock torque curve and the results of chipping (if anyone is interested -- me, I like my warranty so I don't do this).

Check it out, over 200 lb-ft of torque at 1700 RPM, and almost perfectly flat from there until 5000+ RPM. (The yellow line is the stock torque output)

sauceman

Missing link?

rb1

It shows up when I look at. Hmmm...

sauceman

Got it. Took me like 5 minutes to upload it.

dom

I see it fine as well.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Bump...

We're hearing speculation of the RDX powertrain being a 2.2L turbo with 260hp/260 lb-ft of torque and SH-AWD.

Anyone else think we'll be seeing this soon in the TSX?

Dan Martin

I can't figure out how they're getting that much torque out of a 2.2L even with the turbo. It must be a pretty different design from our 2.4L.

The TSX would be a rocket if it had that engine/transmission.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I'm guessing it's that new direct injection engine we've been hearing about. The combination of direct fuel injection and the turbo makes those numbers sound feasible.

Can you imagine what a 2.4L version of that motor would produce? 270? 280?

gpsiir

No, look at the price the TSX is now, compared to RSX and TL. It's right in the middle, where Acura wants it. A turbo would raise the price to TL levels, which Acura marketing won't allow to happen. Don't get me wrong, I'd like a bit more HP in the TSX (although, I'd prefer the IMA approach rather than the turbo), but I don't see any major changes like that.

elduderino

Won't be standard... I suspect a turbo version. I don't see Honda putting that turbo motor in a TL that's only in the US... but I see a performance-oriented TSX...

Dan Martin

Who says the TL won't get a bump too?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I disagree. The TSX is going to need more power to compete in a year or two. The TL will likely get a bump in power as well. The RSX is getting dropped anyway so there will be plenty of roof for this kind of a move.

rmpage

Is Honda still sticking to that "no more than 280 hp in a street car" rule that's kept the NSX from being competitive since the early 1990s?

Precision Crafted

I'd say yes considering the RL's 300 hp #

ClutchPerformer

Boooooooost!

And I'd say it'll probably just be a destroked version of the k24. All they need to do is lower compression.

dom

Mazda gets 260+ from there 2.3L in the MazdaSpeed 6.

kaikai114

I think there is going to be too much change needed so probably won't happen within the next 5 years. The RL is wayyy up there in 49k price, so plenty of room for TL to move up in price, but the problem is competition. With Infiniti G35 (main rival) raising the bar to close to 300 hp, TL probably won't sit around being 270 for long. 2 possibilities to couple with increased hp more than 270, a RWD TL (highly unlikely), or a stepped-up TL with SH-AWD at the high 30grand price tag or low 40g. Though another problem is, RL is @ 300hp already, can the stepped-up version of the TL be 300hp too with SHAWD? I highly doubt it, imho. I'm guessing our TSX will likely be bumped to 220-240 hp to keep up with the competition, still NA with higher compression and FWD (plenty of room for more power on the K24 series engine), while not adding too much to the already-value-oriented price tag @ high 20 grand and low 30 grand mark. This will keep the whole lineup more in sync, my

-K

rb1

I think it's all a matter of boost (as ClutchPerformer noted). Audi just announced another hp bump for the Audi TT 1.8T. The new sport model of this engine is getting 240 hp from a 1.8L motor.

Dan Martin

Boost is a wonderful thing.

I guess I shouldn't really be surprised at the amount of torque but I was just looking at some dynos for turbo's RSXs and they were vastly different. At about 8 PSI they were putting out 275 hp and 180 lb ft.

That lead me to believe there must be some major changes to the K series to get the torque and hp at equal numbers. My guess is a lower compression ratio, same stroke as K24 but smaller diameter pistons to give you the 2200cc's. Redline would probably be in the mid 6000's.

ClutchPerformer

But then they'd have to design and cast a whole different block, which I don't think they want to do. They might as well make a V8.

Also consider that the k24 makes 170+ lb-ft stock.

Dan Martin

Good point. It really doesn't take much of a change to lose 200cc's though. Maybe just some sleves.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Actually, I would imagine they would just use different pistons, the same block, but a slightly different head design. There has been talk about them using direct injection, which would allow for both higher compression and higher boost. If they reduced the stroke to allow for higher RPMs and used a turbo at around 7-8 PSI boost, the addition of the direct injection would make sense with the numbers they're showing.

dom

Speculating is fun.

Dan Martin

My only thought about the higher RPM's is they don't lend themselves to a truck. That and the split between hp and torque would probably get even bigger.

ClutchPerformer

I can dream, can't I?