you make very good points but i disagree about tsx vs accord. it's much much easier to justify the price difference (in my case the price difference for a comprably equipped accord was only slightly less than $3,000)

for that $3,000 i got heated memory drivers seat, heated power passenger seat, nicer leather/overall interior, bluetooth, HIDs, and a few other features that probably aren't worth mentioning (unless voice activated navi commands are unique to the TSX over the accord, which i don't remember).

a comprably equipped IS for $3,000 more, i'd say wouldn't be too hard to justify, but for 6,7,8, 9k more....it's verry difficult other than the reliability that lexus provides and the superior "RWD" or "AWD"

just my

 

you guys really think newbie75 really gives a damn on what you think about his car.
"nice car, but i would..." ahahaha, losers

 

Um...no. Corolla and Camry = FWD platform. The IS250/IS350 are RWD/AWD based on a shortend GS platform. Toyota has since divided the Lexus brand from it's regular division. This is even in Japan. So you will no longer see rebadged Toyotas (e.g. Aristos/GS300, and Soarers/SC430). Lexus is now officially its own brand and has its own design team. Besides, what's wrong with a Corolla? I'd take one if it was given to me free.

 

To the original poster: NICE CAR. I considered it but I couldn't justifiy the price difference. But Lexus has it for the best door panel interiors and fit and finish - I like the TSX's interior quite a bit though. You can't go wrong either way...had you posted pics of your new Volks than you would get a very different response from me!!!!

 

Well, I see what you mean but what I meant by "rational arguments" was a side-by-side comparison strictly in terms of specifications and features, leaving aside any subjective and personal variables such as the ones you mentioned.

(I know there are websites that do side-by-side comparison of features but it's "computer generated" which sometimes brings inaccuracies.)

 

Now would any of you pick an IS250 AWD fully loaded over a BMW 325xi fully loaded?

 

Call me odd man out, but I prefer the overall looks of the TSX more. The IS looks great and cohesive up front, but man, that rear 1/3 to 3/4 and the rear itself is bleh at best and convoluted at worst. The lines look hunched and rushed. The rear is below par, particularly with those reflectors in the bumper. I've said so in the past couple of months and it still holds true for me. The GS is thus far Lexus's best design -- I'd go so far as to say that it's in the top two in its segment. Black, though, does well to hide most of the design issues I have with the IS.

Otherwise, a great job by Lexus on a very competent successor to the already good IS. And congrats to the new owner. Enjoy.

 

Wow, Asimo... oddly enough, I dislike the GS the most out of Lexus' line (and its segment for that matter)... it just goes to show you how subjective "looks" are...

 

Lexus has priced/optioned this car strangely. The RWD IS250 MT is a good value in the low $30ks, and the IS350 is an amazing value in the high $30ks. However, every option costs 25%-50% more than the same options on other cars. AWD is a $2k option in other cars (A4, 325i, etc), but its $3k on the IS. Same with Navi. And by not making some basic options like HIDs and heated seats standard, they basically force you to buy one of the overpriced option packages.

Did you look at the Infiniti G35x? With equivalent options, the inifiniti probably cost a couple grand less, but you get 280 HP. Now, the inifiniti has a much worse interior design and less gizmos, but that 3.5VQ is hard to ignore.

If they ever make a MT IS350, that car with the sport package will be an unbelievable machine for under $40k. I just hope they improve the lousy shifter in the IS250; Honda has spoiled me with their gearboxes.

 

 

Well thanks for straightening me out taitando. I didn't realize the Toyota totally separated their platforms like that.
And ease off on the protective Corolla instincts man! If anyone gave me any car for free I'd take it too! heh.... then I'd probably sell it.

All I was saying is the IS looked like a sleaker Corolla. The Corolla is what it is.. I wasn't slamming it's Corollaness.... though it seems everyone says the Jetta looks like a Corolla.

 

Yup I see alot of red IS250 in NJ/NYC area... they favor that color over at is300 net forum. I guess the is red is like CG whores.. =p

 

Might be your area. Cause I see tons of TSX's on the road and I haven't seen one IS in real life on the road.

 

ya, i don't think anybody was slamming the corollas here.

my dad has an 01 CE, and i think it's fun to drive. sits low to the ground and pretty nimble...

 

Indeed it does show how subjective looks are, but dare tell me that the LS, SC and particularly the ES all look better than the GS. I mean, man, the freaking ES? There's subjective and there's poor visual acuity.

As for segment, it's up against the A6, 5 series, M35/45, and the RL. (Am I forgetting anyone?) It's more competitive in this round of comparison, but I do think the GS holds its lines very well all around. The A6 has that somewhat bloated/soap bar avoir-du pois about it, never mind its acquired taste-only grille. It's also somehow lost its identity in the process. The 5 series has a very strong sword-like (or as I like to call "bread knife") shoulder running along its profile, but is perturbed by its trunk funk and overly stressed headlights. Its presence is felt nonetheless. Infiniti's M35/45 appears to be a G35 that inhaled a bit too much helium and with a rear taillight inspired by baboons. Nearly anonymous. And RL, well, the RL's lines are just fine, though its presence is yet to be made; it's neither offensive nor really impressive. I would say passive, but sometimes under the right lighting and with certain colors, it's graceful, particularly at night when its taillights come out to play.

 

HAHa, I had that exact thought earlier this week! I thought it was a tC next to me but when it finally passed, I realized what it was. I really like the tC styling so I'm not complaining either.

I like the IS styling, but I just couldn't get past the price difference (well, and the new models weren't out when I was ready to buy). If I ended up spending that much money, I would have gone the BMW route, I would think...

 

haha, absolutely. When the new GS first came out I thought, whoa, Nissan Maxima. Seeing it in person, especially in Black, there's no mistaking it for a Maxima. It's a beautiful car (IMO), just as the IS.

 

And I meant to further add this but I timed out in my edit:

Oh, and my critique of the GS itself is not all roses. It is wee bit bloated at some angles, though not nearly as much as the Infinitis -- about par with the A6. I'm not wild about its split headlights, but they're not offensive and this time are much better integrated than in previous generations. At the very least, it is rather unique. Other than that, it really does have its lines pretty much altogether -- much better resolved than its IS brethren. They both go for that NFL linebacker hunch, but the IS is the stunted rookie linebacker that's always too wired for its own good. The GS's line exudes the confident, seasoned player. And that lower silverish trim treatment actually works well in the design. Overall, a successful culmination of Italianesque shape with Japanese cues.

 

i live in hoboken and work in NYC. i haven't seen a single is250 on the road yet. i'm very surprised...seems like a very "jersey" car....

 

Money Magazine did a write up about some of these, and i believe the a6 won the comparison, with infinity as #2, and bmw as #3.

funny thing they said about the RL, and somewhat true.....loosely quoted: i wouldn't want to be driving a $50,000 car that could be mistaken for an accord.

or maybe it said $45,000

whatever.

it scored pretty well, except for "design"

can't really blame them for that. i love the RL, but they had a valid point, from a distance, it could be mistaken for an accord.

 

i have no idea how people write up reviews like this...

i just don't have the vocabulary, plus, i can't finish a sentence w/o some sort of curse word...

 

I estimate a good price for the TSX navi to be about 28.5K, while an IS250 RWD with nav could be had for as low as 32.5K with Wilde Lexus. A difference of about 4K. Just because the TSX has everything standard doesn't mean someone who gets the IS250 must get the exact same options added when comparing the two. I personally could like without HIDs. Love the rear backup camera and luxury feel that the TSX doesn't have. Right now, I'm deciding between the two. If I can afford it, I probably will get the IS250. The TSX is a great value, but doesn't have the same appeal. As for back seat room, I'm single, so the back seat is more like extra storage room.

 

Hull... I understand what you're saying... no one *has* to get the same things on the IS that come standard on the TSX. However, it's not technically a real objective comparison between the two if you don't try to option them out the same. I think Brady's argument was based on dollar for dollar value... I won't argue which car looks better, has a more "luxury" feel, gives you higher perceived status --- those are based in opinion. If you price them out comparably equipped, there is a much bigger price gap than your $4k... and if you look at the performance numbers of the IS250 RWD, it really is not much better than the TSX... so ultimately, objectively, it *does* come down to "Are you willing to pay $X,XXX for the extra creature comforts in the Lexus."

 

exactly.

although when you add all the features to the IS to get it comparable to the TSX, you also get a bunch of add ons that lexus has.....those are the difference in price. if they are worth it to you, then it's a good dollar for dollar comparison.

sure, some features on the TSX you won't want, but some on the lexus you probably wont want either.

the IS250, reportedly, is not even quicker than the TSX. and i'd love to test drive one. i'm sure it handles slightly better due to RWD, but i'm betting not that much better.

it's certainly a bigger gap than 4k as amadeus says. just because you omit certain options because you don't care for them, doesn't mean they aren't there in the price of the TSX. you'd have to adjust the price of the TSX down for any options you leave out of the IS for it to be a fair comparison.

 

What kills the IS for me is not necessarily the $ difference. No backseat and RWD (with relatively hp) is just not an option for me. I always drive manual when given a choice and I've seen so many RWD G35 in the ditch here in northern IL. I'm 6'4" so the car is undersized for me anyway. Interesting note: one Acura salesman told me he regrets his IS250 because it is treacherous in the slop and he hates parking it anywhere downtown Chicago because a Lexus with a scratch or ding is....well you might as well sell it and get a new one.

 

maybe it's me, but i think that back end is pretty unattractive. oh well, could be worse if it looked anything like the last gen's. the rest of the car (including the interior) is pretty nice, though. in la, there are a lot of ISs, and i'm not that impressed with it unless i compare it to the previous gen.

anyway, if he likes it and it works for him, more power to him.

 

Thank you, a**wipe. I kid.

Really, it takes a lot of practice and reading works that inspire you to write better, starting off more or less emulating your admired writers while constantly honing your own voice along the way. Being cogsci major with language and linguistics minor also helps. Have you ever read LA Time's Dan Neil automotive columns? Now *that* is a writer -- the only automotive columnist to have won a Pulitzer. Great stuff most of the time, irrespective of whether you agree with him or not.

BTW, I totally dig your avatar, man. I've been on top of a project that involves compositing in Photoshop for a design class I'm currently taking, and your avatar simply caught my eye as being very effective while simple. It would make a great silkscreen if it isn't one already.

 

The January 18 column on the 325 wagon was awsome.

 

Don't worry, you will be disappointed with it. It is not quicker and it does not handle any better. Plus, you get the bonus of the classic Lexus "riding on a cloud for old people" steering feel.

 

An AT (only tranny) AWD IS 250 was tested in March's R&T and ran 7.4 sec to 60 and 15.5 in the 1/4 mile.

Obviously a RWD MT IS250 would be quicker. Until there tested head to head we won't know but all things being equal I'd guess the IS250 is slightly quicker than the TSX.

Great test BTW. A4 vs Leg GT vs 325iX vs S40 T5 AWD vs G35x vs MadaSpeed6

I'll try scanning it later tonight and post it up in Auto News.

 

That's when u either don't drive ur expensive Lexus downtown Chicago and take metra instead or buy a winter beater car.

 

When I'm taking about comparing the two cars, I'm referring to which I would choose to buy(and with the options I need included). You can compare equivalent optioned prices if you want, but that's not necessarily applicable in a real world purchase decision. If you do it your way, no car could possibly compare to the TSX in terms of features for the price. But as we all know, automobile purchasing isn't an objective process.

 

And I absolutely agree with you Hull --- I think anyone that says they shop for a car "objectively" is lying to themselves, unless they view a car as purely transportation. That being said, the point I was trying to make (and was not clear on) is that going the Lexus route potentially forces you to pay for those extra creature comforts that you may not necessarily want... they're not an a la carte brand. I like the new IS; I think it has nice lines, and no one can argue against Lexus quality. I personally prefer the new 3 series to the new IS as I care more about the driving experience than the amenities, but everyone looks for something different when shopping around. Good luck in your purchase... TSX or IS... there isn't a bad choice between the two.

 

I'm also looking at the 3 series as well, convincing myself that I can get a 325i with nav/bmw assist for 35K. Only 6K more... I'll just have to moonlight a few extra shifts at the hospital to pay for it. The only thing I'm not so sure about "the ultimate driving machine" is the less than luxurious interior(compared to lexus that is).

 

the ultimate driving machine would have the luxury and quality of the IS and the great driving dynamics of the 3 series

 

Infiniti has a chance to make the new G35 close to that. But I bet they will still fail in the luxury and quality dept.

 

amadeus hit it exactly.

well some shop more objectively than others, no one will be completely objective, or we'd all be driving honda civics, toyota corolla's, or maybe accords and camry's for larger size.

if one likes style of IS better than TSX, that's a completely different argument. but as was stated, if you compare cars feature for feature against the TSX, the TSX just can't be touched for value. Which is extremely important to a lot of TSX buyers/shoppers. That's why I couldn't justify the price difference for the IS. The BMW 3, that's a different story, because I'd be getting a significantly better driving experience, and some more luxuries. (minus some quality compared to the lexus, but would i be keeping it that long anyways?)

 

dude, guess what car I'm driving right now and trying to trade in? A 2002 Camry, was thinking too logically at the time, I think.

 

Hello everyone,

Wow !!!! , I did not realize how many of you have posted on this thread. I value all of your opinions and respect them as well. Well, not sure how many of you had a chance to test drive the IS 250 AWD, BMW 325xi and the G35 or has your feedback been based on auto magazines. Before I made my decision, I test drove all four cars, IS, TSX, 3 Series and the G35. All cars are great. I know in comparisons, the IS is being compared to the TL and not TSX, but I have not considered the TL. First the TL is made in the USA and then on the TL forum, people had listed all the problems with the car.

I was patiently waiting for the 2006 TSX to be out. However, once it did, I thought the styling of 2005 to be more appealing to me than the 2006, 2006 looked softer to me vs. the previous years.

Well, my final 2 choices were then IS and the 3 Series. As many of you have pointed that the car buying experience is both subjective and objective, so was mine. I liked the way the 325xi handled, but Lexus was not at all far behind IMO. What I did not like about the 3 Series was the interior (subjective?) to me it looked Spartan and designed to be only functional. Since the concentration on the "ultimate driving machine" was perhaps the driving. IMO there was the lack of comfort and Luxury in that car. The IS's leather for one is smooth and really refined Luxury, the stitching is perfect. BMW's leather felt like vinyl and I did ask the dealer and I was informed that the car I was test driving came with the Luxury package and it was leather.

I also have talked to few of my acquaintances who have the BMW, that they mentioned the little troubles that expressed with the car and often have to take the car to the dealer to be fixed (like the sun roof glass dropped - while in motion he heard a loud noise and it was stuck - in his 2006 330i).

Well, if I were to spend over $40K in a car, I was also looking for the reliability, which by reputation Lexus has (objective). I also love the way the car looks and feels inside out (subjective).

My budget set aside for the car was around $44K so a fully loaded BMW's price was not an object for me. I did not want to either finance or lease the car.

The IS to me feels very sporty when I drive, there is great feedback from the road (unlike GS or other Lexus line up), yet the car is pure Luxury (unlike the BMW 3).

Not sure if this write up helps or hurts, but this is how I feel, to each his/her own. The important part is that I am very happy with my car, hope you guys are as well with yours.

Sorry about this long write up. Perhaps I will stop by some other time (if I am still welcomed LOL !!!)

 

Nice selection !!!

I'm actually on the fence with the TSX. I have a chance to pick up an '05 TL with nav.....so I'm really in a situation. I would have gone the IS route, but Lexus corp did not work with me.