Buff-Daddy

I was very surprised to see this with Acura's line up this year...

Edmunds Editors Choice for 2004

Sedan under $15,000 - Mazda 3
Sedan under $25,000 - VW Passat
Sedan under $35,000 - BMW 3-Series
Sedan under $45,000 - BMW 5-Series
Sedan *over $45,000 - Audi A8 L

Coupe under $15,000 - Honda Civic
Coupe under $25,000 - VW Golf
Coupe under $35,000 - BMW 3-Series
Coupe under $45,000 - Chevy Corvette
Coupe *over $45,000 - MB CL-Class

SUV under $25,000 - Kia Sorento
SUV under $35,000 - Ford Exp/Merc Mountaineer
SUV under $45,000 - VW Toureg
SUV *over $45,000 - Range Rover

Lg SUV under $25,000 - Tahoe
Lg SUV *over $45,000 - Escalade

Conv under $25,000 - Miata MX-5
Conv under $35,000 - Honda S2000
Conv under $45,000 - BMW 3-Series
Conv *over $45,000 - MB SL


You can look up Trucks & Wagons on your own, I am getting tired of typing... Here is the link!

Editors Choice 2004

jlukja

Seeing the price category breakdowns, I guess I'm not surprised. The non-navi TSX MSRP is $26,990 which puts it in the $25K - $35K range. That means its competing with a well-optioned 3 series. A lot of the TSXs appeal has to do with its value. If I was given a choice between the 3 series and the TSX without considering price then I would probably have gone for the BMW also.

21_in_az

i second the 3 series choice, only if it had a bigger engine.....and a larger navi screen.

which v6 3 though? the 170hp one or the 220 hp one?

with the exception of the m3 and 760il (my uncle has one) ALL BMW'S ARE OVER RATED......and most are over price for what you get.

bmw should lower prices by 5-10%....just my 2 cents though.

dnb

Edmunds raves about all the recent 330s they've tested, the most recent one being a long-term 330i.

However, they royally slammed the last 325 they tested (a 325xi).

sunday

I don't see how Edmunds can pick the Golf over the Type S. Even the VW owners on their own forums complain about the window regulators and other problems. Doesn't Edmunds know about this?

vwong

Just wanted to correct you. BMW doesn't use V6 in the 3, nor the 6-cylinder 5. They use inline-6. :P

rb1

And they are 184 hp and 225 hp, respectively.

jcg878

phile

Acura has only 4 chances: RSX, TSX, TL and MDX. You can forget about the RL being competitive with anything at this point. And the NSX, as good as it still is, hasn't been a top pick for at least a decade; no amount of slight refreshening can change that. And none of those 4 cars are the best in their segments anyway, they're just the typical jack-of-all-trades formula that Honda has perfected, which shows itself in sales number more than what the editors at Edmunds think.


Also, if you look at last year's Editor's pick, you'll see the same preference for German cars, especially BMWs:

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/mostw...003/index.html

And I always chuckle at the under 15K coupe category. Besides the Civic, are there any other coupes under 15K? The Elantra and Focus are available in hatchback forms. Besides the upcoming Scion tC, there are none that I can recall. I think Edmunds just has a soft spot for Honda.

Junkster

For total quality of material and management of a car in that class, a Golf is well worth the money. As great as the Type S is, it has it's own mechanical problems, it's much louder at high speeds, and the material in the RSX are not up to par with the VW cars. And Edmunds has a tendency for being a bit biased about Euro cars.

Junkster, who thinks the Golf is a step above the RSX in quality.

jcg878

They are not Consumer Reports, they're a car 'magazine.'

Is the Golf a coupe? I thought Golf=4drs, GTI=2. My friend has a GTI and love it - no electronic gremlins for him.

phile

I hope you meant the RSX, and not the TSX, because the TSX definitely has material quality that is on par with, if not better, than the Golf.

gilboman

without consideration of reliability, a golf 1.8T would be a very good choice above a Type-S. the quality is a huge difference, and i prefer the "euro" ride of the golf, the way it goes over bumps and such is very solid. the biggest plus for the 1.8T, is the stock torque numbers are really good, and a very CHEAP simple chip mod will do wonders for the car. too bad the reliability ruins a very good car overall.

Junkster

Oops, you caught me, phile, I did mean to say RSX.

Junkster, who probably misspells hella lot of words in here.

Junkster

I know the technical advisor for the Audi/VW chains in the Western states (he lives in CO) and he always reminds me that, IF he had to spend his own money to buy a car from his company, he said the only two he would buy are the VW Golf and A8. He pointed out that all the other cars are overpriced for it's catagory.

The Golf reliability isn't quite as bad as their Audi counterparts, and repair costs of a Golf are actually reasonable compared to other VW products. I do think the next Golf coming will improve on certain problems.

Junkster, who has too many VW-lovin' friends for his own good.

bob shiftright

I think it would be much more interesting to see "What cars or trucks the editors of edmunds.com ACTUALLY PARK park in their garages" instead of "What cars or trucks would we most want to park in our garage?"

R&T does this from time to time.

The Cars of Road and Track's Staff

(Honda products represented in the R&T staff garages include a '90 Acura Integra GS, '86 Honda XL600R, '88 Honda Civic LX, '88 Honda Civic hatchback, and a '96 Honda Accord.)

phile

They do have something similar where the members/consumers vote. And you do notice a little more Honda products in the results.

For example:

2003 Editor's Most Wanted/2003 Consumer's Most Wanted

15K sedan: Hyundai Elantra/Honda Civic
25K sedan: VW Passat/Honda Accord
35K sedan: BMW 3-Series/Infiniti G35
25K coupe: Mini Cooper/Acura RSX
35K coupe: BMW 3-Series/Infiniti G35 (yes, the exact same result as the sedan)
Compact SUV: Ford(Mazda) Escape(Tribute)/Honda CR-V
Midsize SUV: Honda Pilot/Acura MDX

jcg878

They do have an abridged version of this - it doesn't seem to include too many of the editors:
http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/editors.html

bob shiftright

WELL, ask and ye shall.....

1987 Honda Accord, Chevy Chevelle SS, 1995 Nissan 240SX, 1997 Saab 900 SE Turbo convertible, BMW 733i, 1997 Ford Explorer, 1996 Mitsubishi Galant, 1998 Toyota Corolla, 1985 Mazda RX-7, 2000 Yamaha V-Star motorcycle, 1997 Suzuki Sidekick, 1970 Plymouth GTX, 1973 Saab Sonett III, 2002 Mini Cooper......

Much different selection if they're spending their own money vs. spending someone else's money.....although the list remains Acura-less.

phile

And notice which particularly German automaker, which won a lot of the categories it was in as voted by some of these editors, is also not on their list. OK, maybe one 733i...

Buff-Daddy

Who ever said that being a car editor for a magazine means that you can afford a BMW? Looks like they get paid dirt by that list. A pretty boring, practical and inexpensive list...

Buff-Daddy

Really? How come you didn't post a link so that we could all read this bashing of the car they then turn around and recommend? I am sure they would have made a point to clarify that they were ONLY recommending the 330 and NOT the 325, don't you? And what I find MOST interesting is that the BASE MSRP for the 330i is $35,200 before destination and handling and that means that it couldn't possibly be the car that they were referring to in the UNDER $35,000 category you f'ing moron. You have to be smart before you can be a smart-ass, for now, you are still just a dumb-ass...

phile

No one did, and that wasn't even the point shit head. It was going back to bobshiftright's comment about what these editors drive vs. what they rated as Editor's Most Wanted, which backs up what was said earlier: it's not their money. If money were no object, I certainly would choose a VW Passat over an Accord in their respective category.

Buff-Daddy

OK, Bob said it would be more interesting to see what they actually drove instead of what was "most wanted". You said that there were no BMW's on the list. What was your point?

phile

BMWs won in almost every category that they were in. If you still don't get it by now, you're really in no position to call other people dumb like you did in that other post of yours. What I wrote contained no epiphany or grand revelation that needs to be scrutinized; it was a post that complemented what bobshiftright wrote. If you're searching to see if it was some sort of veiled attack on BMW, you're wasting your time.

larchmont

Right on.

The TSX didn't have much of a chance here because the dollar cutoffs chosen for this survey work against it. If the cutoffs had been the "round" numbers -- 10K, 20K, 30K etc. rather than (or in addition to) 15, 25 etc. -- I think the TSX would have been the odds-on favorite in the under-30K category.

jcg878

I hate to admit that I thought the same thing - it doesn't appear that they are paid very well. I recall one of them saying in his/her evaluation of the Mazda6 that it "takes my mind off of that 3-series I'll never be able to afford."

And B-D, I don't think they draw a clear distinction between variants of a particular model over their price ranges, perhaps intentionally. Kind of like "we really like the 3-series, and it starts under $35k."

jcg878

They were talking about the 325xi wagon:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/bmw/...content...BMW*

justinjsw

What an A-HOLE!

zircon

he's a professional shit-disturber who would rather troll here than over on BMW sites where they all compete over a who makes the most money, biggest house, wife with the biggest set etc...and to think, there is a show on BET channel right now on (flashy) pimps...

Buff-Daddy

So what you are saying is that you cannot explain it either...

Example of Phile's lingo - "What I was saying was related to what Bob was saying in that other post and not what you were saying in your post and if you would have read that one other post, you would see that in my post I was referring to that initial post and not the 3rd post you thought I was referring to about what Bob had said earlier in one of his other posts. And if you would have read that one post I posted before, you should be able to figure that out or you are a stupid-head."

Buff-Daddy

There's a man who does his homework! Nice job jcg878! Looks like this article was from June of 2001, not exaclty up to date and I am not sure anyone cares about wagons, but at least you proved that dnb did actually read something about the 325, it was just 3 years ago and it was a wagon. Good find!

dnb

Thanks to jcg878 for posting the link.

Oh, my. What defensiveness and insecurity.

My apologies for not being smart. I'm so bad at the internet that when I searched for the Edmunds article that slammed the 325xi, I took a wrong turn and instead found an article on Consumer Reports' saying the X5 has dismal reliability.

phile

Or would you have preferred that I put in Buff-Daddy's lingo? Example of Buff-Daddy's lingo - "Before you can post something, try actually thinking about what the other person wrote you f-ing moron. You are an idiot, I am superior to you because I have a PhD and a BMW, did I mention you're an idiot? Because you are."

Read this very carefully, B-D - the comment about BMW (and contrary to what you quoted, ignoring the last part where I did acknowledge that someone had a BMW) was that these editors are picking the BMWs in their respective categories, but if it were their money, that wouldn't be the case, evidenced by the list of cars that they drive, which goes back to what bobshiftright had said (how in the world do you actually expect me to not redirect it back; my post was a response to an earlier post). I said nothing new, it was just a comment to complement what was already posted by someone else, nothing less, nothing more.

Now why don't you focus less on my post and more on yours. I never said these editors could afford a BMW; in fact, I am sure I was implying the exact opposite. You're expecting me to somehow explain a post that you misread and misinterpreted. And when you can't understand that that doesn't work, you say some bullshit like "So what you are saying is that you cannot explain it either..." What an asshole. EDITED: B-D is not fat, but he is, nonetheless, still an asshole.

Buff-Daddy

I am on the BMW sites from time to time, often defending the TSX and TL, but I do not live on one site 24/7. I don't have to research or learn about BMW's because I already have them, the research is over. I don't plan on modifying them, so there is no real reason to be there unless I am having problems, which thankfully, I am not.
My sister and a friend are interested in TSX for their next car, I am here to see if it is the real deal or not. And your stereotype of BMW owners is laughable. Go check out a BMW forum sometime, all they talk about is how much they love thier BMW's just like you guys talk about how much you love your TSX's. To lump EVERYONE that drives a BMW into "your" stereotype is just like the ignorance that causes racism.

Buff-Daddy

An asshole? Yes!
Fat? Hell no!

Buff-Daddy

That's ok, I'm sure you found the article and then felt like a tool when you realized that they were reviewing a "wagon" and not the car you were talking out of your ass about.
And since you seem to care so much for reliability, what was the reliability rating and crash test results on your TSX when you bought it? Oh, that's right, that information isn't out yet. How on earth did you buy a vehicle without seeing those #'s 1st? Maybe it's because it doesn't really matter to you. Me neither.

I also see that you are from Boston, which explains a lot. I played baseball against your boys Nomar Garciaparra and Jason Varitek in college. They were both on the same team (Georgia Tech) at the same time along with Jay Payton who is also in the Bigs. It's funny, they were such winners in college and then they had to move to Boston and the rest is history...

Let me know when you are coming to Minnesota, I'll be sure to leave my garage door open so you can drive by and jerk-off at the site of it.

Go RedSux!

larchmont

B-D, I've gotten a lot from many of your posts although not others. But I gotta tell you, what you said to DNB was an all-time low for you.

P.S. When I first wrote this, I hadn't even seen your latest post to DNB.
Congratulations, you broke your own record.

Buff-Daddy

For me? Yes,
For this board? Not even close!!!

Go back to the 1st post and start reading larch. Buff-Daddy does not fire unless fired upon. Then he came back for 2nds...

Funny how people can make fun of things like the Special Olympics and "Rice" Stereotypes and no one says a word, then I put some tool in his place and get an earful...

phile

Wow dnb was just coming at you full speed, B-D. I mean, he was out to kill! Phew, I'm trembling for you just reading his post. It was just totally uncalled for. Somebody should tell that dnb he shouldn't fire at people like that, feelings are gonna get hurt. My goodness, what got into him?! Yikes, I can't believe he, or anyone else, would use that kind of tone against you.