budzzz

This may be a bit long but there is a lesson here for anyone that may be thinking of purchasing a TSX on E-Bay.

My brother found a listing for a 2001 Cessna 172 on E-Bay that had a buy it now feature for about $58,000. For folks who don't know this is a $135,00 aircraft equipped the way it was. He actually tried to purchase it but got a message that he had to be an "Approved Buyer". From one of the photos in the ad he got the tail # of the aircraft and did a search on this plane and found out the "True owner" was in Montana.

This ad received more than 5,000 hits. He contaced the so called seller as did many other people to find out how he could be an approved buyer. After E-Bay quickly pulled the ad he was contacted by some jerk in Germany who requested $3,200 via Western Union so he could bring the plane to the US. No PayPal or credit cards were acceptible. Big surpise!!!

My brother traced down the true owner that had this craft listed on a ligit web site who in turn contacted E-Bay and the FBI. This jerk had duplicated that ligit ste exactllyin his E-Bay ad.

My wife and I use E-Bay very often and will continue to do so but be careful! There are very creative idiots out there that are trying to steal your hard earned $$$. Always use a credit card or some ther form of payment that you have recourse on!!!

I tried to get to the ad on E-Bay but it has been pulled so there is no link!

DEVO

i will say it again... ebay sucks... just like saying it.

jumpper

Well, ebay is alright. But sometime, you have to be realistic. Every seller tries to make money, not loose money. If the deal is too good to be true, be very careful.

biker

Treat it as if you don't mind losing it. I never buy anything that's over $100.

dabuda

$3200 isnt as bad compared to this poor guy trying to buy a M5...just an excerpt, for full article click link http://www.msnbc.com/news/854552.asp

DEVO

I've read that story and I'm sorry... but I thought that guy was an idiot... TO GOOD TO BE TRUE... then it ain't TRUE. Those are words to live by on ebay.

Also, the above scam is nothing new, it's been done multiple times... usually with the escrow scam as in the M5 article.

I think ebay is almost at the point that if you are not a power seller then you will probably not get the money you are asking... and when you become a power seller, the prices are usually better outside of ebay. Plus not to mention the amount of time and crap you have to go through in order to get what you want.

So what made ebay a success IMO is being removed on a daily basis.

STL

Really? I guess I should not have just bought a new 2003 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR mountain bike for $830 there -- but instead paid over $1300 from a local dealer?

No eBay doesn't suck, but you have to use a little common sense and be careful!

DEVO

I'm sure there are good deals to be had... but the majority of stuff there is junk. If you want to deal with somebody at EBAY, good luck. So you have to "trust" the seller. I too have had good deals at ebay. But my last experience there was anything but pleasant and that's it for me. Anyway, I'm not the only person who feels this way. I just found a whole forum on ebay sucks. Too funny.

ecsw

All u need to have is more experiences. I have cought at least 5 scam deals on eBay when I was thinking about buying a laptop.
It's actually not too difficult to tell if u r careful.

Like jumpper said, if the deal is too good to be true, be careful.

larchmont

I've bought about 200 items on eBay, and never yet a bad experience.

AcuraFan

Another interesting article I came across today.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/996108.asp?0cv=CB20

Crazytree

ebay sucks... you basically have zero protection when using ebay or paypal.

just because you ran a red light 200 times and haven't died doesn't mean it's a good idea. shopping on ebay is basically like doing business with some stranger on some street corner and hoping he doesn't rip you off.

feedback is a joke... fraud is rampant and ebay doesn't give a shit about catching these people. shill bidding has proliferated to the point where the entire system's integrity has been undermined.

www.paypalwarning.com

Lung Fu Mo Shi

I sell on eBay a lot. But this is THE most accurate statement. You are not dealing with a company, but with an individual. You need to determine yourself whether the "deal" is worth the risk.

That said, the things I sell online are typically used, honest advertised, and I make little money on shipping (except when I was selling XBoxes at $350 shipped).

If you are looking to buy a car or a laptop (i.e. shomething over $200) try to see it in person, or trust the seller. Ask yourself...is it worth $200 to get a known good car from a dealer than from some guy on Ebay, etc.

DEVO

here is a good link:


www.ebaysucks.com

check out there forum for some good stories... and if you every wanted ebay's customer service number... it's on that site.

all this time i thought the seller is protected... but that is not the case either.

STL

So DEVO, how is that auction site (being pushed in the link you keep posting) any better than eBay?

I admit that eBay isn't perfect (and it's not as good as it used to be) but as long as you are careful there are still plenty of good deals to be found! I actually found my used 2001 Tacoma on eBay -- but I never bid on it there. After the auction closed with only 1 bid (which I suspect was a shill) I emailed the seller, a car dealership within a day's drive, and ended up making a deal over the phone -- after the bidder supposed bidder backed out. In the end I went and picked up the truck and ended up saving $2-4 thousand dollars (compared to what I would have had to pay locally).

fdl

Hey, I've got the same bike. Its great!

DEVO

I don't advocate any site pushed by the site listed... just thought it was funny that other people had similar problems like I did. I got banned from ebay for buying an item at a good price and left excellent feedback... how do you say that's possible? It is actually quite easy. I was in the middle of changing jobs and my email was set to an address that was no longer valid. Before I could update my email address, ebay banned me. I tried and tried to contact them (wasted about 6 hours) to correct the issue to no avail. So that's it. I'm done with them... I now contact the seller directly, if I trust them enough.... so ebay is cut out of the picture.


And yes that is a good price for your bike. I tend to trust sellers of bikes and their accessories because they are a good crew. The items that I bought on ebay were all bike related.

jdibella

It doesn't suck if your not a f*cking idiot.

Use your brain. There are scams EVERYWHERE. If your stupid enough to Western Union 3200 to someone then you have an issue. Usually when someone on eBay doesn't accept PayPal then some flags should be going up.

DEVO

it sucks... haven't been scam, don't plan on getting scamed either. i find items all the time much cheaper outside of ebay, hence why i don't shop there at all.

majormojo

I've done about 30 eBay transactions as buyer or seller. Only one went bad (seller misrepresented item) but I was able to work it out with the seller eventually. I think the main thing is to use your head and just say no to something that either doesn't feel right or seems too good. I pass on lots of "good deals" (pricewise) that have something fishy about them.

The only big-ticket item I've bought via eBay was a USD$1400 notebook computer. I used escrow.com and I think it was worth the fee to have a little piece of mind. Without escrow, I wouldn't buy via eBay for more than a couple hundred $$.

Most things I buy through eBay can only be found there or would be really hard to find otherwise, like vintage car parts and memorabilia. As a seller, I generally just sell my old computer stuff for a little mad money. So I think it's useful, but you really have to watch who you you're dealing with.

Crazytree

did you even look at paypalwarning.com? there are LOTS of powersellers who refuse to use paypal because the dispute system is so fuct. were you aware that paypal can raid your BANK ACCOUNT to cover a chargeback? even if you have a zero balance in your bank account... they'll charge against it, your bank will pay it and then come after you for the money. were you aware of that? it has happened literally hundreds of times. or even worse... people have a grand or two in their paypal account and then paypal freezes it. they then demand endless paperwork to unfreeze the account... which leads to a bureaucratic hell where many people never get their money. I couldn't make this up if I tried.

captainjack

Right on.

My great grandfather was an inventor. Had over 100 patents. One of his biggies was the first safety razor. All my life I heard about it from my dad but never saw one.

Then I found and bought a PERFECT one on eBay for under $30. Amazing.

I've had a few negative experiences. But a little discretion goes a long way.
For the wide assortment of absolutely ANYTHING, I think it's worth it.

jdibella

I have read paypalwarning.com and i've also read paypalsucks.com as well. I know ALOT of people who have used PayPal for a while and have never had any problems like this. Sounds to me like an angry kid that tried to rip them and got caught and now wants to get payback, but hey I could be wrong.

All i'm saying is that to those who say "eBay sucks" probably dont have common sense because it's a very simple process. It's just like shopping anywhere else or "internet shopping". If you come across the website that says "Buy 5 dvd players for the price of 1!" are you going to buy it?

In my comment about if they dont accept Paypal then flags should be going up was a bit out of hand. I do understand there are plenty of people out there that do not use PayPal and are very much legit. That came out the wrong way and I wanted to rephrase that.

Point of this post: Just because you cant use your head when shopping online doesn't mean eBay sucks.

DEVO

You guys make it sound that people who think ebay sucks got scamed when the opposite is true. If you get scam you are just naive... ebay may help those who want to commit fraud but I don't blame ebay on that. I blame the idiot commiting the fraud. I think ebay sucks when you are doing a legal no scam transaction and something goes wrong... who do you call (don't say it), who do you email... it can be very fustrating. Again, I have to say that there are lots of deals to be made outside of ebay. I have bought stuff way cheaper outside of ebay then through ebay. For collectors it's a great place... for bike stuff it's also great... until the above happens.

jdibella

You run the risk of being scammed anywhere you go. If you understand the process and know how to setup an auction correctly your risk of scam is "less" then it can be. I have sold hundreds of items as well as purchased hundreds and never had any problems. If you bid on something and never got contacted by the seller then he lost a sale. You leave negative feedback, report him to eBay and call it a day. Ok yes, it can get frustrating but this can happen in any type of market. You buy something from a flea market and it doesn't work anymore and the guy moved away. You cannot contact him therefore you cant get your money back. are you still not going to go to flea markets and look for a good deal? It's very simple:

Stupid people dont use eBay.

DEVO

They don't? Ebay counts on stupid people. I can believe some of the stuff that gets bought and overpriced to boot. I was looking at a cable modem on ebay once... the price at a store $75... with rebate $45... ebay selling prices 65-80... same exact item. Stupid? Yes.

Take the xbox... you could go to any store and pick up an xbox... there were no shortages... yet dumb ass people flocked to ebay to get one.

Anyway, my point is when something goes wrong, beyond the seller's or buyer's control... you are screwed. Yes it can happen anywhere but at least you have somebody to complain or discuss an issue... with the money they are making the site could be better and so could customer service... actually a lot better.

Crazytree

Were you aware that ebay will turn over all your account information over to any law enforcement agency WITHOUT a warrant? All they need to do is send a fax with official letterhead.

This not only includes every item you have bought or sold... but also every item you have even LOOKED AT.

They don't even attempt to verify the info... so basically someone could make up letterhead and wait around in a Kinko's until the info gets faxed back.

Just keep in mind ebay records every item you have ever browsed.... even that cocaine grinder you showed to your friend as a joke.

STL

I call bullshit on this one. They might keep track of every item you tracked (via My eBay) but there is no way the keep track of every item just browsed for every user -- that is far too much bandwidth with no benefit to them. I will even concede that they might keep track of the last 50 or so items you just looked at, but not every item since you've had an account. Your statement sounds like an exaggeration.

Crazytree

SOURCE

Guess what Einstein... every e-commerce site on the web keeps a history of all items browsed. Where do you think ebay and amazon get all the dynamic content used to generate your unique index page when you log on?

How would this use any additional bandwidth? You have to call the page you browse from their servers, and ebay keeps track of it in a database that is called everytime your cookied browser hits a page. How is this a bandwidth issue at all? It isn't.

If you still think it's bullshit... you can call Andrew Sullivan directly and ask him. Tell him Crazytree sent you.

STL

I fully expect they get that info from the last 50 or so items you browsed.

You will have to excuse me because I mispoke, I mean it would be a huge database of information. Keep track of that much info for every user would seem to incur a lot of needless cost (for eBay) with little to no return.

BTW, I haven't check the link yet -- I'll do that tomorrow morning.

STL

I changed my mind and read the article yet I still believe you are wrong. I see were you could have gotten confused though.

The article said this:
Sullivan says eBay has recorded and documented every iota of data that has come through the Web site since it first went online in 1995. Every time someone makes a bid, sells an item, writes about someone else, even when the company cancels a sale for whatever reason - it documents all of the pertinent information.

And later this:
eBay sends back the user's full name, email address, home address, mailing address, home telephone number, name of company where seller is employed and user nickname. What's more, eBay will send the history of items he has browsed, feedbacks received, bids he has made, prices he has paid, and even messages sent in the site's various discussion groups.

I believe the keep track of every item you have ever bought, sold, or bid on -- but not browsed. For browsing the likely keep some finite amount of history (like say the last 50-100 items) and that 's it. I doubt they'd save all that additional info just so they could turn it over the law enforcement (when they are obligated to save it). Like I said saving that much info would affect their bottom line and yield no benefit to them.

Crazytree

you may be shocked to learn that one of the most important things e-commerce sites do is compile as much information about you as possible. like I said before... they use it to provide you with dynamic content. Ebay is not alone... Amazon and virtually every other e-commerce site do it to... so that they can offer you "recommendations". This information is INCREDIBLY valuable. The only difference is that Amazon won't fork over this information without a warrant.

according to your logic... if keeping track of items browsed is of "no benefit"... but maybe they keep track of some arbitrary number like 50 or 100... then why even keep track of them at all? Why keep track of messages posted to user groups?

Why would Sullivan use the langauge "history of all items browsed"? So you're telling me an ebay director made a misstatement to a major media outlet... and you were smart enough to catch his mistake?

Honestly... I'm getting too old to argue with people on the internet... formerly one of my favorite pastimes. You said ebay doesn't do X. I presented a published quote by the Ebay Director of the Law Enforcement and Compliance Division of Ebay specifically saying that they perform function X. Yet somehow through some type of birdbrain logic you are able to... I dunno... I give up. This is a waste of time... [arguing on the internet this is].

STL

That quote is NOT in the article! So I am not accusing anyone at eBay of a misstatement -- I am accusing YOU of one. Again you are taking two different statements and combining them. Why do you refuse to admit that? It seems you would rather keep calling me names and insulting me. Whatever makes you happy...

STL

TTT ... so people know to take what Crazytree says with a grain of salt.

Crazytree

Ok my mistake... I took the big quote from another article off of google that I'm having a hard time finding now. I'll find it or I'm going to email Ebay Security and post the reply here if I can find his email this weekend.

At first you said it was totally false and started throwing around words you don't know the meaning of like "bandwidth". Then you "changed your mind" and conceded it's probably only the last 40-50 items browsed. If people need to take what I say with a "grain of salt"... then they need to keep in mind that you are as computer literate as a 7 year old when you post.

STL

Crazytree,
Again you resort to personally attacking me instead of sticking to the facts. Yes, I accidently mispoke, but that in no way, shape, or form proves that I uneducated. Everyone makes a mistake from time to time. I openly admited to my mistake (once it was pointed out) and then proceeded to explain what I meant. Maybe you can take a lesson from that! Futhermore, from the beginning I said that eBay probably stored some finite amount of browsing history on all their users so I never waffled on that like you claim. Maybe you have trouble correctly recalling details you have read after a couple days. That would explain a lot of things!! Anyhow, to think eBay really keeps track of (and saves) every item that every user has ever browsed is just plain nutty.

STL

I don't understand why you are having so much trouble finding it because it only took me a few seconds to find it. Here is where you got the quote (and the bad information):
http://leler.blogspot.com/ (02Oct2003 issue)

The above link does a bad job of parapharsing a real article (the exact one you linked above) and supplies a link to the article. You can clearly see that Mr. Sullivan never said what you quoted. Now I wonder if you ever even read the actual article -- or did you just read the small blurb that incorrectly exaggerates the article (exactly like you are doing)?

Crazytree

emailed ebay security and asked the question very specifically. I will post again on this thread with their response.

please get the kneepads ready.

majormojo

You're expecting a response from eBay? You are crazy.

DEVO

Yeup... unless you call their number... which are posted at ebaysucks.com you aren't going to hear from them.