CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Dunno why, but the clutch was smoking after I was done with it (though admittedly, I did beat on it pretty hard, though not any harder than what I usually do during a test drive).

I realize that all turbo cars have lag, but some cars are better at masking it or have other mechanical components that help prevent slippage when the turbo boost comes online (both the WRX and STi have AWD, which pretty much dealt with the sudden reduction in traction).

And yes, the GLI is about $4k cheaper than a TSX, but it quickly becomes obvious that those $4k could be recouped quickly in suspension and other upgrades to bring a GLI into the same driving experience as the TSX. Like I said, it's not a bad car for the money, but it also isn't quite as good as a TSX in practically all categories.

rb1

I'm just curious, do you actually buy a car after treating it like this?

rb1, who wonders who he managed to get through an entire GLI test drive without smoking a tire, much less the clutch...

dom

Never buy a demo. Those AT and MT TSX's I drove saw redline several times. Especially the 6MT

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Only if I like the way the car drives. I always beat on cars when I test drive them because I'm pretty particular about how I want a car to respond under certain situations. This is also why people say never to buy a tester because of people like me.

If I like a car after the initial test drive, I never buy the same day. I always find a car I like first and then research it because I buy. I will always do a more docile test drive the morning of the purchase of the exact car I'm going to be purchasing and then buy the car.

rb1

Hee. Hee. OK. I'm glad we're both on board with the "never buy a new car that has ever been test driven by someone else rule".

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Haha...no kidding. I know that there are other bastards who thrash test cars like me so I know better. The car I get better have no more than 4 miles on it when I first drive it.

Saintor

Not at 10000$CAD more.

E46 clearance terms is the reason why I got my 325i.

TinkyWinky

Funny, that's the reason the 3-series was the first to be crossed off my list.

LuxuriousRuski

WOW I never knew my post can be sooo popular!!

lol I love it, proves what a 16 year old newbie can do! haha

Dan Martin

If you want to have some real fun, go over into ramblings and post a thread asking which is better TL, CL, or TSX.

Or even better, start a thread here asking which is better AT vs. MT.
















If you value your life, don't do it.

biker

sauceman

Attaboy!

Saintor

At delivery.



I can't get off that stupid grin.

So far, so good.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Yup, definitely look stupid...

Saintor

Less stupid than if I would have put a grocery bag.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

On fire, no less.

sleeper

at least it's uncommon. unlike the 325. :gheylaugh:

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

SilverCL225hp

All three of them look very good outside. But TSX beats the other two in interior design in my opinion. However, 325i has a very smooth engine which TSX and C230 can not match. I kind of lean towards the naturally aspirated enginer more, so I wouldn't consider the Benz if I were you.

sauceman

Did you actually experience the smoothness of TSX's engine?

05_TSX_GP

Thanks Sauceman! I was worried that I am the only one who thinks the TSX engine is just as smooth (if not more so!) as the I6 in the 325i.

I had an E46 325i with sports package ('01, so has drive-by-wire) for couple years and the TSX I have now has proven to be as much of an "Ultimate Driving Machine" as the E46.

Saintor

I did. A few manual and automatic. With the automatic., it felt exactly like my '99 Accord. Nobody can make a 6 with a 4.



It depends by how you define 'Ultimate Driving'. I wouldn't spend 10K$ only for this small increment, but the 3-series a still step beyond.

sauceman

That's not the question. If built well and right, a 4 can be built to run just as smooth as an I-6.

Plus, you didn't talk about the 6MT version. You damn well know that automatics have constraints that MTs don't.

Please show honesty in your comments.

05_TSX_GP

Can't agree with you more, sauceman. I should well be qualified to compare the E46 2.5L I6 5MT and the TSX 2.4L I4 6MT (as stated before I owned "that" E46) So as far as the drivetrain goes, the TSX is every bit as smooth (I honestly think it's actually smoother!) as that configuration of E46.

I recall attending a BMW Comparison Drive shortly after I got my E46. Back then there's no TSX yet. They had 3.2 TL, MB C sports sedan, Volvo (forgot model, never really cared for that brand)... honestly speaking, none of those competitors came close to the E46 in drivetrain and handling. But NOW I seriously wonder what results and impressions will such Comparison Drive including the TSX leave its participants with!

Saintor

Smoothness is not the only 6 cyl. advantage; try a rich deep throat sound that enhances the driving experience. More of a quality feel than any 4 cyl.

sauceman

... especially when the car is so well insulated that you won't hear the engine at speed anyways...

Please don't tell me this is what won you over to BMW. I sure as hell wouldn't shell out an extra 10 gran for engine sound.

And the music of the engine is subjective. You like it, I don't. Who's right, who's wrong? Neither of us. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't like the sound of your I-6, just that it's a question of preference)

Saintor

Come on. Nobody in his mind will prefer the sound of a 4 cyl. over a perfect 6 cyl. Be honest!

sauceman

I should ask my wife which sound she prefers, and whether she'd pay an additionnal 10k for the I-6...

We as car enthusiasts usually will prefer the sound of the I-6, because we know what it means, just like the sound of a pssshhht will normally bring the hair right up on our backs, or a high-pitched raucous sound bring shivers because you just recognised the sound of a V12.

But the average person who buys a car for just regular reasons could probably not tell the difference between a 4 or a 6. Why, in their right mind would they pay an extra 10k for it, except maybe for the prestige of the brand name?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

And to be completely honest, I would take the F20C I4 in the S2000 over the I6 in the BMW anyday. Nothing like 9k RPMs for a hair-raising sound.

sleeper

dgkFL

You know what amuses me? That people automatically draw conclusions about other people based on what car they choose to drive. I just leased a 325i, but if it weren't for the current incentives and clearance pricing, I would have gotten a TSX 6MT Navi.

Here's what I got for $25,940 (btw, everything I list below that I don't have is by comparison to TSX, but is available, but costs more). I am listing some features you might just not realize 3-series have (in no particular order).

A very smooth, beautiful sounding 6. Can't say it's smoother than the TSX, but a little more torque down low, my preference.

A great clutch and shifter (only 5-speed), but not as good as TSX.

IMHO, a beautiful interior. A toss up with the TSX. Slightly less room. Available at same price with real wood, but I got aluminum trim (I believe TSX metallic trim is really plastic, and I know the "wood" is.)

No navi (boo) and I had to add XM on my own for $300 (but I'm not counting that.

No fold-down rear seats (boo).

(All 3 series hard tops now come with sunroof btw, and the wt of my car with sunroof is 3240 or so).

All 4 windows and sunroof have auto open/close, and can be opened with the remote.

Auto rain-sensing wipers, auto-dimming mirror, auto climate control (but not individually controllable).

No heated seats (boo).

Limited function trip computer.

Both front seats are 8-way power, leather, with power lumbar support, and driver's seat has 3 memories, optionally associated with each key.

Key recharges while in ignition.

IMHO, a fanastic steering feel. The TSX is good, but here is where RWD shines. I don't race, but let's face it, you can't completely hide it when the front wheels are doing all the work. You just can't.

Front and rear vented discs.

16-inch wheels, 55-series tires. Full-size spare on alloy rim.

Lit steering wheel controls, including phone. Bluetooth became standard the month after my car was built (BTW).

Rechargeable flashlight plugs into glove compartment. Tool kit in trunk.

Heated mirrors.

Fog lights (if you care).

No xenons (boo).

Metallic paint (costs extra on bimmers, you know!)

More of a greenhouse than Tsx (important to me).

5/year, 50,000 mile maintenance included (supposedly this includes virtlually everything but tires)--(figure it out--this evens out the price quite a bit).

10-speaker stereo (but don't get excited--it's not very good).

BMW Assist (but only first year is included--costs $240/year after that).

Hey, you're right, there are E46's on every corner. But, it is a classic beautiful car IMHO, and that sure makes aftermarket parts easily accessible.

In the end, I know I would have loved a TSX, but at almost the same price, even minus some features, the BMW just appealed to me a bit more. That's the bottom line, and it's only a matter of taste and priorities. Why are some people so touchy about this?

Enjoy. I'm too old to race you to see who's faster, but I'll be happy to give you a if you wave at me!

David

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Don't get us wrong, we're not touchy...but when you come to a site full of TSX owners to say how much better your BMW is without providing good empirical reasons, expect to see some .

And it looks like you bought the car that suited your needs, so for you.

Belzebutt

Good to know that BMWs can be had for a comparable price, and it has a lot of cool features, but those are just inexplicable to me:



Anyway, beautiful car it is.

Saintor

Xenon are std in Canada.

Belzebutt

As are heated seats I presume.

sleeper

:whocares: about canada?

BusyShifter

Sanitor and David, both of you got very good deal on the BMW in my opinion, and good for you. Hopefully you are wearing big smiles on your faces whenever you are driving, like many of the TSX owners. One thing I envy about the BMW is the RWD, but I care less about the power, or the sound of the I6 vs. I4. I am still impressed by how beautiful the I4 engine is in TSX when I step in my car. The "potential" better fuel efficiency of the I4 engine is also another thing I like about the TSX. (Yes, I do wonder if my next car would be a hybrid ).

When I was car shopping, I never cross-shopped BMW. If the BMW clearance deal was availabe during the time, maybe I would have consider the possibility. But would I purchase a BMW instead? Well, maybe I would, if I was 5 to 10 years older. BMW is good car, but it just does not fit me well. And I am glad that not everyone is buying TSX. I would appreciate it less if the street is over-run by TSX.. And if that was the case, perhaps I would have gotten a BMW instead .

ianS

I second that I found my TSX engine is way more smoother than my 328i. But I dun think I am qualify to say that now, since my bimmer are already in the shop for 2 weeks.... I already forget how it drive now and I am not missing it a single bit

03CoupeV6

I disagree with the engine smoothness. Having owned a 99 Accord four-cylinder, and driven a TSX and 05 Accord four-cylinder, they're all very smooth...

for four-cylinders. They're not even close to I6s or V6s in terms of smoothness.

05_TSX_GP

Smoothness is probably too objective a thing to rate and compare... otherwise, the technical specs would list some smoothness figures However, just like to add that no matter how each of us perceives smoothness in our cars' engines, we shall not forget it should really be the smoothness of the drivetrain (minimum as engine + transmission) that we discuss about. And for that matter, I am pretty much confident to say that the 2.4L I4 + 6MT on the TSX is smoother than the 2.5L I6 + 5MT on the E46 I had... I think I effectively said this same statement several posts ago in this thread