Acura TSX vs. Bmw 325i vs. Mercedes C230 Kompressor
#81
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ok.. the competition in the test is a BMW 316i (1.8L) and a Saab 93 1.8t (2L). The EuroAccord is not the 2.4L but the 2L sport. Chosen cars all cost about the same (30K euro's, and yes cars are ridiculously expensive in the Netherlands so feel lucky over there !).
Please don't make me translate the whole test. Conclusion is that overall they prefer the EuroAccord over the BMW and Saab. It's the best buy for the money. Mainly performance wise, the driving sense and feeling, the build quality and looks. BMW comes second, then the Saab.
Sorry for the bad quality, but it's a scan (with an ancient scanner !) from a magazine.
I have another test where they have the same EuroAccord (2.0L sport) compete against a Mazda6 2.3i S-VT Active, Nissan Primera sedan 2.0 Tekna, Ford Mondeo 2.5 V6 Ghia and Opel Vectra sedan 2.2 16V Elegance. Guess what... The EuroAccord wins...
Please don't make me translate the whole test. Conclusion is that overall they prefer the EuroAccord over the BMW and Saab. It's the best buy for the money. Mainly performance wise, the driving sense and feeling, the build quality and looks. BMW comes second, then the Saab.
Sorry for the bad quality, but it's a scan (with an ancient scanner !) from a magazine.
I have another test where they have the same EuroAccord (2.0L sport) compete against a Mazda6 2.3i S-VT Active, Nissan Primera sedan 2.0 Tekna, Ford Mondeo 2.5 V6 Ghia and Opel Vectra sedan 2.2 16V Elegance. Guess what... The EuroAccord wins...
#83
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Thanks for the scans.
Something tells me the 316 wouldn't do to well over here....
Something tells me the 316 wouldn't do to well over here....
#84
Banned
Come ON. A 316.... this isn't a true 3-series.
Of course, I wouldn't have bought a 47K$ 325i compared to a 36K$ TSX. But at the same lease rate or less with a I6 and equivalent equipment, this is a no brainer.
Of course, I wouldn't have bought a 47K$ 325i compared to a 36K$ TSX. But at the same lease rate or less with a I6 and equivalent equipment, this is a no brainer.
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[QUOTE=Saintor]Come ON. A 316.... this isn't a true 3-series.
Of course, I wouldn't have bought a 47K$ 325i compared to a 36K$ TSX. But at the same lease rate or less with a I6 and equivalent equipment, this is a no brainer.
Agree on the 316 not being a true 3 series, but the test was between cars in the same price range...
Btw, very nice car Saintor ! Love the seats in the 'true' 3 series... nice leg support...
Of course, I wouldn't have bought a 47K$ 325i compared to a 36K$ TSX. But at the same lease rate or less with a I6 and equivalent equipment, this is a no brainer.
Agree on the 316 not being a true 3 series, but the test was between cars in the same price range...
Btw, very nice car Saintor ! Love the seats in the 'true' 3 series... nice leg support...
#86
Sorry, guys, I hope you don't mind if I jump in here.
I chose one of these over both cars:
Over BMW: damn, it's a nice car but I am soooo sick of every third car I see on the road being a 3-series. I see more 3 series than Honda Civics!
Over TSX - the vets here know why.
I would say that the price I got my fully loaded 9-3 Vector/Aero was right smack inbetween the a Navi Auto TSX and a fully loaded Bimmer.
Damn, I love Turbo's......
I chose one of these over both cars:
Over BMW: damn, it's a nice car but I am soooo sick of every third car I see on the road being a 3-series. I see more 3 series than Honda Civics!
Over TSX - the vets here know why.
I would say that the price I got my fully loaded 9-3 Vector/Aero was right smack inbetween the a Navi Auto TSX and a fully loaded Bimmer.
Damn, I love Turbo's......
#87
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Originally Posted by Mokijoki
Judging from the forum a lot of people already have a problem with the 200HP of the TSX... 316i is the base engine in europe for BMW.... Can still do 206KM/h though (127MPh)... 2.0L EuroAccord's (also listed as a CL7 btw :-)) factory spec topspeed is 220KM/h (136MP/h). Guess people here don't feel the need so much for big engines. Not only the cars, also the fuel is a bit more expensive than in the states...
Peace
#88
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Originally Posted by camoe
You aren't kidding. I stayed in Eindhoven for a couple of months last year and was shocked again at how much petro costs. I'm coming to Holland again in a few weeks, prepare the weather for me please.. Oh, and the taxes the Dutch pay on autos is insane! BTW...love the country.
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Camoe, prepared weather will probably be a bit rainy :-)
93KEWL, must admit that I also testdrove a 93 when I was looking to buy a new car (already 2 years ago). Love the Vector. I testdrove a bright blue one with full options. Only negative thing that stook with me is the dash, which is a personal thing ofcourse. 'Bad' thing about the 93 (and BMW 3-series) is that so many people are driving around in it here. That and the fact that I've always been Honda minded made me decide to get the EuroAccord (had 2 accord's before and a CRX).
#89
MokiJoki,
That's funny! Living in the Netherlands I am sure is the exact opposite of the situation we have here in the US. Most Japanese cars are a dime-a-dozen and probably over there the euro cars are the same way.
That's funny! Living in the Netherlands I am sure is the exact opposite of the situation we have here in the US. Most Japanese cars are a dime-a-dozen and probably over there the euro cars are the same way.
#90
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Saintor, I'm not really surprised at your posting in this thread, now appraising the BMW, and bashing the TSX. You never loved the TSX, always compared it to your prelude.
I invited you to determine it's performance on the track in Sanair (just out of MTL) for stright-line acceleration. If you want, JeffTSX is also organising a track meet in Shannonville (halfway between MTL and TO). I'll be there, Dan Martin, and Jeff (obviously).
It is your occasion to stick it in our face. Until then, it's all just
I invited you to determine it's performance on the track in Sanair (just out of MTL) for stright-line acceleration. If you want, JeffTSX is also organising a track meet in Shannonville (halfway between MTL and TO). I'll be there, Dan Martin, and Jeff (obviously).
It is your occasion to stick it in our face. Until then, it's all just
#91
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As much as I'm annoyed by unreasonnable anti-TSX declarations, some of you guys here are just way too much fanboys about your TSX, and you have no credibility about what you're saying. You should try and be a little more balanced.
The TSX is a great car, but it's not gonna do your dishes as some of you almot seem to think it would.
The TSX is a great car, but it's not gonna do your dishes as some of you almot seem to think it would.
#92
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Originally Posted by sauceman
Saintor, I'm not really surprised at your posting in this thread, now appraising the BMW, and bashing the TSX. You never loved the TSX, always compared it to your prelude.
I invited you to determine it's performance on the track in Sanair (just out of MTL) for stright-line acceleration. If you want, JeffTSX is also organising a track meet in Shannonville (halfway between MTL and TO). I'll be there, Dan Martin, and Jeff (obviously).
It is your occasion to stick it in our face. Until then, it's all just
I invited you to determine it's performance on the track in Sanair (just out of MTL) for stright-line acceleration. If you want, JeffTSX is also organising a track meet in Shannonville (halfway between MTL and TO). I'll be there, Dan Martin, and Jeff (obviously).
It is your occasion to stick it in our face. Until then, it's all just
A TSX or Mazda6 would have been my 2nd choice in the 30-35K$ bracket, with a preference for the Acura. I would never pay 45K$+ for a 3 series unless it was a 330i. But, this is a particular situation; a loaded 325i at the same lease rate as a TSX. I *jumped* on it. Acceleration doesn't stand high in my priority list (I don't care whether it is 7 or 7.5s on 0-60). I do care much more however about having a sweet 6 cyl. with a great sound.
I am sure that I would have been happy with a TSX, no doubt. Thank you for the invitation even if you couldn't stand a chance. Thank me for avoiding you humiliation.
#93
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Originally Posted by Saintor
Where does that silly statement comes from? I never owned a Prelude and don't even remember having compared it to a TSX! :
Originally Posted by Saintor
Thank you for the invitation even if you couldn't stand a chance. Thank me for avoiding you humiliation.
And the numbers say you lose.
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Originally Posted by TinkyWinky
MokiJoki,
On the summary page for the euro-accord, they give it a thumbs down on the "Materiaal dashboard". Could the material be that different from the TSX?
Nice scan, by the way.
On the summary page for the euro-accord, they give it a thumbs down on the "Materiaal dashboard". Could the material be that different from the TSX?
Nice scan, by the way.
#96
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Originally Posted by camoe
You aren't kidding. I stayed in Eindhoven for a couple of months last year and was shocked again at how much petro costs. I'm coming to Holland again in a few weeks, prepare the weather for me please.. Oh, and the taxes the Dutch pay on autos is insane! BTW...love the country.
Peace
Peace
i luv amstd!!
wants to go back to try more hash!! hehe
#97
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Originally Posted by sauceman
Sorry bout that, I must have confused you with another member. Am I wrong then, or you never owned a TSX?
My offer still stands. Until then, the numbers will be taken seriously, until you prove them wrong.
And the numbers say you lose.
My offer still stands. Until then, the numbers will be taken seriously, until you prove them wrong.
And the numbers say you lose.
I owned an Accord 1999 that I sold - today.
What numbers are you referring? C&D reported 2 times a 0-60 in 7s flat (Jan 01 and Mar 04) for a 325i. TSX is more like 7.5s.
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when shopping for my car, i was looking at the 325i, tl, tsx, 230k. all of the cars are great, and they all have their pros and cons. but from the beginning, value was the most important factor. now, keep in mind i wanted to buy my car straight up (no lease/financing). on a price that i could negotiate between invoice and msrp, the tsx was at least 4k less. the tl is in a different class, but the price i found for it was comparable with bmw/mb. in the end i realized i didn't need a car that cost more than $30k when i could get a excellent one for $25.8k.
what i liked most about acura is that it was loaded with standard features. i feel like my money is going towards features, not just the brand name/perceived image. i wish the stock tsx could outperform all the other cars, but i was willing to sacrifice some of the performance for those features, quality, and design. however, after a few cheap mods, i feel that the tsx is just as good as its competitors in terms of performance. now if only i could reduce some of the weight....
my biggest problem with bmw and mb is with their drivers. the vast majority are either condescending pricks or yuppie sheep.
what i liked most about acura is that it was loaded with standard features. i feel like my money is going towards features, not just the brand name/perceived image. i wish the stock tsx could outperform all the other cars, but i was willing to sacrifice some of the performance for those features, quality, and design. however, after a few cheap mods, i feel that the tsx is just as good as its competitors in terms of performance. now if only i could reduce some of the weight....
my biggest problem with bmw and mb is with their drivers. the vast majority are either condescending pricks or yuppie sheep.
#101
Originally Posted by Mokijoki
TinkyWinky, what they are refering to is that to their liking the interior was a bit 'too much black'. It's a matter of preference, I personally think there can't be too much black in the interior. Next to that the 'sport' version has some 'carbon' effect and it was a bit too much to their liking also...
#102
Originally Posted by Saintor
Because it is superior? I have yet to see comparo where a TSX wins over a 3-series.
To me, just the fact that a 4-cylinder Acura can compete with a 6-cylinder BMW already says something. If you can't see this point, there isn't much more to talk about. Don't own the car just because it is a BMW and everyone else is doing it.
#103
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Originally Posted by Saintor
Because it is superior? I have yet to see comparo where a TSX wins over a 3-series.
Automobile Magazine, I believe it was Aug 2004. The TSX wins a comparo over 10 or so cars including the 325. Now can you name one article where the 3 series beats the TSX? You can't because one doesn't exist. The Automobile mag comparo was the only test.
Now this isn't to say the TSX is a superior car, IMO its a tossup with both doing different things extremly well, but the BMW isn't as superior as you like to think it is.
#104
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by sauceman
If you want, JeffTSX is also organising a track meet in Shannonville (halfway between MTL and TO). I'll be there, Dan Martin, and Jeff (obviously).
#107
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Originally Posted by sauceman
Why yes, of course!!! That would be cool. (::insert Jean Chretien smile:: ...to see an AT in action )
I'm well aware I'll probly be in the High 16's to 17's but it should still be alot of fun.
EDIT: Ooops, Shanonville, track day. I still want to come
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
I'm looking forward to it.
...and with that, I think this thread has been officially
...and with that, I think this thread has been officially
But it's for teh good cause... Proving the haters (BMW RWD snobs) the TSX can hold it's own.
sauceman, who sees more and more very similar characteristics between saintor and gilboman
#114
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I thought Gilboman was just an evil computer virus created by European car manufactuers and Toyota designed with the sole purpose of trolling Honda/Acura boards spewing misinformation and hatred?
#116
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Originally Posted by CobaltForge
I got to test drive both a 325 and the TSX at a driving event. I put both cars through their paces, so much that I almost got kicked out of the event. Granted the BMW had a more "grounded" feeling, but still the TSX was more fun to drive. The fact that the TSX wanted to really rev in the higher-end really made it want to go. Sure the 325 had that "immediate" punch, but it fizzled right around 3500 to 4000 rpms.
I do have to agree that there are amazing lease possibilities w/the 325i, but you also have to remember what some have been saying as well, BMW wants to move these cars before the next gen comes in.
In the end, I opted to lease my TSX as opposed to the BMW. Even though BMW had a pretty good lease going on at the time that I leased my car, I still chose the TSX. For me it was the total package: value for my money, reliability of the brand, and just general fun-to-drive factor in this car. For those nay-sayers that stress V6s and I6s overshadow the I4 of the TSX, I call shenanigans! I came from an accord V6, and my TSX does not feel underpowered at all. If you want that "sound" of the V6, there are mods out there that you can do that will make the TSX "sound" better.
I do have to agree that there are amazing lease possibilities w/the 325i, but you also have to remember what some have been saying as well, BMW wants to move these cars before the next gen comes in.
In the end, I opted to lease my TSX as opposed to the BMW. Even though BMW had a pretty good lease going on at the time that I leased my car, I still chose the TSX. For me it was the total package: value for my money, reliability of the brand, and just general fun-to-drive factor in this car. For those nay-sayers that stress V6s and I6s overshadow the I4 of the TSX, I call shenanigans! I came from an accord V6, and my TSX does not feel underpowered at all. If you want that "sound" of the V6, there are mods out there that you can do that will make the TSX "sound" better.
#117
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Someone name one car magazine or auto journal that doesn't name the 3-series the absolute benchmark of sports sedans? It may not win every comparison test, lots to do with the high price/low equipment factor, but as far as driving dynamics, the TSX bows to the 3-series. Let us not forget the TSX is an Acura badged Honda Accord. It's cheaper, it's higher quality, and more bang-for-your-buck -- but it is not a BMW in terms of driving experience. You might be as quick (though this I doubt), but you won't be having as much fun.
But before I get flamed -- I'd buy the TSX over the 3-series anyday for the value factor alone. That and the TSX being higher quality... and that I admire Honda as a company. The TSX is also better looking inside and out, IMO.
But before I get flamed -- I'd buy the TSX over the 3-series anyday for the value factor alone. That and the TSX being higher quality... and that I admire Honda as a company. The TSX is also better looking inside and out, IMO.
#118
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by 03CoupeV6
Someone name one car magazine or auto journal that doesn't name the 3-series the absolute benchmark of sports sedans? It may not win every comparison test, lots to do with the high price/low equipment factor, but as far as driving dynamics, the TSX bows to the 3-series. Let us not forget the TSX is an Acura badged Honda Accord. It's cheaper, it's higher quality, and more bang-for-your-buck -- but it is not a BMW in terms of driving experience. You might be as quick (though this I doubt), but you won't be having as much fun.
But before I get flamed -- I'd buy the TSX over the 3-series anyday for the value factor alone. That and the TSX being higher quality... and that I admire Honda as a company. The TSX is also better looking inside and out, IMO.
But before I get flamed -- I'd buy the TSX over the 3-series anyday for the value factor alone. That and the TSX being higher quality... and that I admire Honda as a company. The TSX is also better looking inside and out, IMO.
#119
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Originally Posted by 03CoupeV6
Someone name one car magazine or auto journal that doesn't name the 3-series the absolute benchmark of sports sedans? It may not win every comparison test, lots to do with the high price/low equipment factor, but as far as driving dynamics, the TSX bows to the 3-series. Let us not forget the TSX is an Acura badged Honda Accord. It's cheaper, it's higher quality, and more bang-for-your-buck -- but it is not a BMW in terms of driving experience. You might be as quick (though this I doubt), but you won't be having as much fun.
But before I get flamed -- I'd buy the TSX over the 3-series anyday for the value factor alone. That and the TSX being higher quality... and that I admire Honda as a company. The TSX is also better looking inside and out, IMO.
But before I get flamed -- I'd buy the TSX over the 3-series anyday for the value factor alone. That and the TSX being higher quality... and that I admire Honda as a company. The TSX is also better looking inside and out, IMO.
You can't really compare the fun factor unless you do just that.
And as someone who has tracked RWD race cars, I can honestly say the TSX is quite fun to drive. As fun as a race car? Probably not. As fun as most streetable sedans, absolutely. As fun as a 3-series, absolutely. It's a different kind of fun, but it is every bit as fun.
#120
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Originally Posted by sauceman
sauceman, who sees more and more very similar characteristics between saintor and gilboman