Acura TSX vs. Bmw 325i vs. Mercedes C230 Kompressor
I believe he was affectionately known as IronGeekTanaka
02-21-2005, 10:58 AM
#124
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
When was the last time you drove a 3-series and TSX back to back?
You can't really compare the fun factor unless you do just that.
You can't really compare the fun factor unless you do just that.
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
And as someone who has tracked RWD race cars, I can honestly say the TSX is quite fun to drive. As fun as a race car? Probably not. As fun as most streetable sedans, absolutely. As fun as a 3-series, absolutely. It's a different kind of fun, but it is every bit as fun.
So, that's why I am totally agree with what you said! And with the a-spec suspension on the TSX, I found it is more fun to drive than E46. 
02-21-2005, 11:26 AM
#128
Banned
Originally Posted by Dan Martin
!= means "does not equal"
325 > TSX
but it is not a BMW in terms of driving experience. You might be as quick (though this I doubt), but you won't be having as much fun.
Gilbo, Lesbo, Limbo... don't know what you are talking about.
02-21-2005, 11:34 AM
#129
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Originally Posted by Saintor
Somebody finally sees the light. There is nothing like keeping power to maintain a side drift...just as a second steering.... it isn't the same.:
Originally Posted by Saintor
Gilbo, Lesbo, Limbo... don't know what you are talking about.
02-21-2005, 12:07 PM
#131
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oooh, lame statements! ok, let me try: evo viii > 325.
yes, it's just as stupid of a comparison as a 325 is to a tsx if you're arguing about specific aspects of a car. i could compare performance between a wrx or evo to a 325, but the cars aren't comparable overall.
regardless of what kind of deal you can get for the 325, the MSRP (let alone the i-6) puts it out just out of the closest/ comparable competitor range. we should stick to 4 banger luxo-sport sedans 25-30k when talking about comparisons to the tsx. only problem is, there's not a lot of competition in that category. but as a true tsxer, there's no competition when it comes to the tsx.
yes, it's just as stupid of a comparison as a 325 is to a tsx if you're arguing about specific aspects of a car. i could compare performance between a wrx or evo to a 325, but the cars aren't comparable overall.
regardless of what kind of deal you can get for the 325, the MSRP (let alone the i-6) puts it out just out of the closest/ comparable competitor range. we should stick to 4 banger luxo-sport sedans 25-30k when talking about comparisons to the tsx. only problem is, there's not a lot of competition in that category. but as a true tsxer, there's no competition when it comes to the tsx.
02-21-2005, 12:37 PM
#132
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If you've got the bucks to spend, this is unequivocally the best car in the entry-luxury category. ~Edmunds
The 3 Series is BMW's top seller in the U.S., and for good reason -- endowed with world-class suspension, steering and brake components, these cars have an ability to communicate with their drivers that is unmatched in the entry-level luxury class and, indeed, unmatched by most cars at any price. ~Edmunds
This is the benchmark. The BMW 3 Series cars are the aspiration for every automaker building a sports sedan or smaller luxury sedan. ~New Car Test Drive
Other automakers are envious of the 3 Series for another reason: It exemplifies consistency in product character and values. BMW's 3 Series cars have been the benchmark for entry luxury cars for some time, and we do not see this changing soon. ~New Car Test Drive
Yes, some of its competitors offer a stronger price/equipment equation and comparable objective performance. But if you take off in a 3 Series and immediately realize the gap to the rest of the pack is wider than the price differential, then you can consider yourself an enthusiast driver and that your money was well spent. ~New Car Test Drive
Which goes a long way toward explaining why the 3-series has been on our 10Best list for 14 consecutive years. ~Car and Driver
We've said it before, and we'll say it again: The 3-series is automotive perfection. It's the benchmark. ~The Monroe Street Journal
Because of the TSX's lack of dynamic composure, the 3-series, C-class or Infiniti G35 would all be better choices for sporty drivers. ~Auto.com
The car goes where you point it, but it feels less composed than benchmark small sport sedans like the 3-series, C-class and G35. ~Auto.com
And let me just say, this is NOT TSX bashing. In all fairness, this whole thread is absolutely pointless because the TSX, despite being similar in dimensions, is NOT a 3-series competitor. The 3-series is compared to the TL in all tests I've seen.
TSX has an UNBEATABLE value factor, it's an extremely attractive, no doubt fun-to-drive sedan (I've driven it and a 3-series)... it's interior blows any BMW I've seen away. The TSX is the car I'd choose for the money. I don't want a BMW, but I respect BMW because they really are the benchmark in the luxury-sport category.
02-21-2005, 12:47 PM
#133
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when i got my tsx for my bday i was first thinking of the 325ci but i realized that everyone had that car n i when i saw the tsx i liked it a lot better. i also did some research and on all the sites i went on the tsx had better ratings.
02-21-2005, 12:49 PM
#135
Originally Posted by 03CoupeV6
And let me just say, this is NOT TSX bashing. In all fairness, this whole thread is absolutely pointless because the TSX, despite being similar in dimensions, is NOT a 3-series competitor. The 3-series is compared to the TL in all tests I've seen.
TSX has an UNBEATABLE value factor, it's an extremely attractive, no doubt fun-to-drive sedan (I've driven it and a 3-series)... it's interior blows any BMW I've seen away. The TSX is the car I'd choose for the money. I don't want a BMW, but I respect BMW because they really are the benchmark in the luxury-sport category.
TSX has an UNBEATABLE value factor, it's an extremely attractive, no doubt fun-to-drive sedan (I've driven it and a 3-series)... it's interior blows any BMW I've seen away. The TSX is the car I'd choose for the money. I don't want a BMW, but I respect BMW because they really are the benchmark in the luxury-sport category.
And the only reason that the 3-series is not compared against the TSX is because the price so far exceeds the TSXs that it'd be ridiculous. The TL is priced closer to the 3-series pricing and is a significantly larger car, as a result. A larger car will never be able to share the driving dynamics of a smaller car.
02-21-2005, 01:08 PM
#138
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if we're talking about sticking to a car in the TSX's price range, one car that i find comparable to the TSX is the outgoing jetta 1.8T GLI. i have never driven any version of the 1.8t, but on paper this car seems to be a real competitor. that said, i never tested the car because my previous car was a '98 jetta and i wanted to try a non-vw product. i just realized as i write this that this may have been discussed before, so my apologies if this is the case. anyhow, any thoughts on the jetta turbo as a competitor?
UR
UR
02-21-2005, 01:10 PM
#139
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I'm confident to say that most of us have considered the 325i before we purchased the TSX, needless to say the G35. For the amount of money spent on the 325i well-equipped, I might as well get myself a G35 with more hp, same rwd, and better interior (imho). Most of us up here have considerable amount of knowledge in cars, and we still chose the TSX, why? Go figures. Personally I think the 325i is very weak on hp and not as smooth as our TSX I4, the 325i feels very neutral being a rwd, but I will have my TSX all-around package any day. I spend most of my time driving the tsx so I can enjoy the interior trim, stereo, handling, and just the smoothness of the engine. And you cannot truly use the RWD advantage of the 325i unless you push it to the limits, that is when FWD and RWD start to take different paths. 325i wins in being a RWD on track and having the prestigious badge, that's about it, TSX will beat it hands down on anything else (interior trim, engine power, luxury, etc etc). I like the value and the "versatility" of the TSX, and loving it more as days pass
02-21-2005, 01:14 PM
#140
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Uncle Rico
if we're talking about sticking to a car in the TSX's price range, one car that i find comparable to the TSX is the outgoing jetta 1.8T GLI. i have never driven any version of the 1.8t, but on paper this car seems to be a real competitor. that said, i never tested the car because my previous car was a '98 jetta and i wanted to try a non-vw product. i just realized as i write this that this may have been discussed before, so my apologies if this is the case. anyhow, any thoughts on the jetta turbo as a competitor?
UR
UR
02-21-2005, 01:18 PM
#141
Originally Posted by Uncle Rico
if we're talking about sticking to a car in the TSX's price range, one car that i find comparable to the TSX is the outgoing jetta 1.8T GLI. i have never driven any version of the 1.8t, but on paper this car seems to be a real competitor. that said, i never tested the car because my previous car was a '98 jetta and i wanted to try a non-vw product. i just realized as i write this that this may have been discussed before, so my apologies if this is the case. anyhow, any thoughts on the jetta turbo as a competitor?
UR
UR
Now, to elaborate more on the suspension. It felt too soft for the car and I quickly discovered that it was going to result in a lot of body kit scraping (I actually heard the body kit contact the ground during one particularly hard corner). The car understeers considerably (easily remedied with a thicker rear sway). Scary to drive fast.
As for the turbo, power was good when the turbo was spooled, but for such a small turbo, I was surprised at how much lag there was. With a turbo this small, I was not expecting to feel the sudden boost in power when the turbo kicked in, but I experienced this time and time again. Also, the clutch is not strong enough for the turbo motor. A few quick hard runs and the clutch was nearly fried.
Needless to say, I dropped the car back off at the dealer and didn't stick around to talk with the salesguy who had given me the keys.
02-21-2005, 01:33 PM
#142
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i gotta say i'm almost relieved to hear the negative impressions of the jetta, as seeing all the hot deals being recently offered on the GLI had me feeling a bit of the old buyer's remorse. truthfully, the only advantage to the jetta i could think of, at least in terms of driving dynamics, would be in the 1.8t's greater low-end torque, but i'm sure overall engine refinement would still come up far short of the TSX.
02-21-2005, 01:55 PM
#143
Don't get me wrong, I think the GLI is quite the car, but it just is not a luxury oriented vehicle and it shows. Comparison to the TSX probably isn't the best comparison. However, compared to a Subaru WRX, it's leaps and bounds ahead of the pack. Heck, even compared to the Mercedes C230 Coupe it's a better choice. But it falls just short of the TSX in too many areas to be a true point for point competitor.
02-21-2005, 02:07 PM
#144
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Yeah, 3 quotes were from www.nctd.com.
The point is that pretty much all of them have the same story. The 3-series, when money isn't considered, is far more of a driver's car.
But price is always a factor. That's why with my money, I'd own the TSX. I appreciate the TSX for what it is, a nicely equipped, sporty, and dependable Japanese sedan. It has an Acura badge, but the car is known everywhere but here in NA as the Honda Accord. The FWD Honda Accord, even with a sporty appearance and drive, is not on par with a 3-series for sheer driving pleasure, and doesn't offer the prestige of a Mercedes.
But what it does offer is plenty for most anyone. I like the TSX, but I am also realistic. When I drove it, I didn't have unreasonable expectations for it to be like the 330i I just drove.. and I was pleased with the TSX aside from the lack of low-end power. Could Honda build a car that could dethrone the 3-series? With enough R&D, probably. Will they? Doubt it.. because their products are extremely successful as they are.
The point is that pretty much all of them have the same story. The 3-series, when money isn't considered, is far more of a driver's car.
But price is always a factor. That's why with my money, I'd own the TSX. I appreciate the TSX for what it is, a nicely equipped, sporty, and dependable Japanese sedan. It has an Acura badge, but the car is known everywhere but here in NA as the Honda Accord. The FWD Honda Accord, even with a sporty appearance and drive, is not on par with a 3-series for sheer driving pleasure, and doesn't offer the prestige of a Mercedes.
But what it does offer is plenty for most anyone. I like the TSX, but I am also realistic. When I drove it, I didn't have unreasonable expectations for it to be like the 330i I just drove.. and I was pleased with the TSX aside from the lack of low-end power. Could Honda build a car that could dethrone the 3-series? With enough R&D, probably. Will they? Doubt it.. because their products are extremely successful as they are.
02-21-2005, 02:20 PM
#145
Originally Posted by 03CoupeV6
Yeah, 3 quotes were from www.nctd.com.
The point is that pretty much all of them have the same story. The 3-series, when money isn't considered, is far more of a driver's car.
But price is always a factor. That's why with my money, I'd own the TSX. I appreciate the TSX for what it is, a nicely equipped, sporty, and dependable Japanese sedan. It has an Acura badge, but the car is known everywhere but here in NA as the Honda Accord. The FWD Honda Accord, even with a sporty appearance and drive, is not on par with a 3-series for sheer driving pleasure, and doesn't offer the prestige of a Mercedes.
But what it does offer is plenty for most anyone. I like the TSX, but I am also realistic. When I drove it, I didn't have unreasonable expectations for it to be like the 330i I just drove.. and I was pleased with the TSX aside from the lack of low-end power. Could Honda build a car that could dethrone the 3-series? With enough R&D, probably. Will they? Doubt it.. because their products are extremely successful as they are.
The point is that pretty much all of them have the same story. The 3-series, when money isn't considered, is far more of a driver's car.
But price is always a factor. That's why with my money, I'd own the TSX. I appreciate the TSX for what it is, a nicely equipped, sporty, and dependable Japanese sedan. It has an Acura badge, but the car is known everywhere but here in NA as the Honda Accord. The FWD Honda Accord, even with a sporty appearance and drive, is not on par with a 3-series for sheer driving pleasure, and doesn't offer the prestige of a Mercedes.
But what it does offer is plenty for most anyone. I like the TSX, but I am also realistic. When I drove it, I didn't have unreasonable expectations for it to be like the 330i I just drove.. and I was pleased with the TSX aside from the lack of low-end power. Could Honda build a car that could dethrone the 3-series? With enough R&D, probably. Will they? Doubt it.. because their products are extremely successful as they are.
It's all about engineering to a price point. If Honda was truly interested in competing with the BMW 325 at the $35k price point using the TSX, the TSX would have received significantly different engineering. If you think about it, BMW engineers its cars to the higher price point. This is why they are only able to offer a compact car at $35k where most competitors are offering a mid-size car.
BMW is not superior at what it does, but rather they have their chosen focus while competitors tend to allow more compromises.
02-21-2005, 02:38 PM
#146
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Don't get me wrong, I think the GLI is quite the car, but it just is not a luxury oriented vehicle and it shows. Comparison to the TSX probably isn't the best comparison. However, compared to a Subaru WRX, it's leaps and bounds ahead of the pack. Heck, even compared to the Mercedes C230 Coupe it's a better choice. But it falls just short of the TSX in too many areas to be a true point for point competitor.
the gLi is a good value car - but it's not in the same class.
02-21-2005, 03:30 PM
#147
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CGTS i know i'm sweating the details here, but if you say the GLI is not as luxury-oriented as the TSX, would you say it is as sporty or sportier than the TSX? which is really more fun to drive, chassis and engine shortcomings notwithstanding?
02-21-2005, 03:44 PM
#148
Originally Posted by Uncle Rico
CGTS i know i'm sweating the details here, but if you say the GLI is not as luxury-oriented as the TSX, would you say it is as sporty or sportier than the TSX? which is really more fun to drive, chassis and engine shortcomings notwithstanding?
As for fun to drive, I supposed it depends on how you define fun to drive. The turbo is a real kick in the pants, but without a good chassis setup and gearbox, it really doesn't mean much. And it's hard to separate fun to drive from the componentry.
In the end, I must say the TSX is actually more fun to drive. It's smart, nimble, and easily maneuverable, yet exhibits none of the shortcomings of the GLI except for the push at the limit.
02-22-2005, 12:13 AM
#150
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In some earlier posts in the thread, it has been discussed in the comparo of the quality of service of BMW vs Acura.
Basing myself from my own personnal experience, I have given myself the objective of going 100% with the Acura sugested maintenance schedules, and as an indirect result, the service team, knowing me and my car well, are proving me that they have a top-notch service quality.
Granted, they may do mistakes, as they are humans (those mistakes I may have pointed out already), but the support they are offering me is absolutely beyond any doubt as good as it can get. I wish I could get into details, unfortunately for now, I don't believe I can, but domn could attest to it, as he knows a little about what is going on with my car.
Let me just say that with late issues with the T, if it wasn't for the service support, I'd be trading in for a 2005 (despite a HUGE equity loss) at best, or maybe looking elsewhere. BUT, with the service I am getting, I cannot let the issues I have with my car discourage me and incite me to get rid of it. The guys are definitely walking a mile or two ahead for me.
I don't doubt one second BMW may have a similar level of service and support, but as it has been said, if it ain't broke, why fix it? If I were in the processs of buying again, I wouldn't shy away from Acura's service.
Basing myself from my own personnal experience, I have given myself the objective of going 100% with the Acura sugested maintenance schedules, and as an indirect result, the service team, knowing me and my car well, are proving me that they have a top-notch service quality.
Granted, they may do mistakes, as they are humans (those mistakes I may have pointed out already), but the support they are offering me is absolutely beyond any doubt as good as it can get. I wish I could get into details, unfortunately for now, I don't believe I can, but domn could attest to it, as he knows a little about what is going on with my car.
Let me just say that with late issues with the T, if it wasn't for the service support, I'd be trading in for a 2005 (despite a HUGE equity loss) at best, or maybe looking elsewhere. BUT, with the service I am getting, I cannot let the issues I have with my car discourage me and incite me to get rid of it. The guys are definitely walking a mile or two ahead for me.
I don't doubt one second BMW may have a similar level of service and support, but as it has been said, if it ain't broke, why fix it? If I were in the processs of buying again, I wouldn't shy away from Acura's service.
02-22-2005, 07:56 AM
#153
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Originally Posted by biker
So what happens when the IS250 comes out and splits the diff between the TSX and 325?
The TSX should normally be out of comparison by then.
02-22-2005, 12:03 PM
#157
Race Director
Originally Posted by domn
So will the is250 have a 2.5L V or I6? Any word on power output?
02-22-2005, 12:10 PM
#158
My Garage
Originally Posted by iamhomin
How the heck did you get that kind of deal???? 
For starters, it was a leftover 04. The 05's were coming out within weeks, so they wanted to get rid of it. They were asking 29K for it. I told them no way because i could just wait and get an 05 for that much and they agreed. Then they came down to 27K. Which made my payments just a little too high. I told them if they could get my payments where i wanted, i'll give you a check today. They came down to $26,700. I gues I got a little lucky.
02-22-2005, 01:02 PM
#159
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by biker
2.5L V6 215HP, 6MT available - I'll see it next Friday at the local show.
215, thats it? Then again it depends what its priced at.
Take lots of pics Biker
02-22-2005, 02:07 PM
#160
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
As for the turbo, power was good when the turbo was spooled, but for such a small turbo, I was surprised at how much lag there was. With a turbo this small, I was not expecting to feel the sudden boost in power when the turbo kicked in, but I experienced this time and time again. Also, the clutch is not strong enough for the turbo motor. A few quick hard runs and the clutch was nearly fried.
All turbo cars have some lag. It takes some getting used to. Go drive a WRX or STi and see how long they take to spool up.
I agree with you about then handling, the the body kit is the main reason I didn't get one. One speed hump and that front lip is a goner.
Incidentally, isn't the GLI a good deal cheaper than a TSX? (I got a quote for about $23K on one recently).