JonDeutsch

OK, I've had my 05 6MT TSX for a few months now, and much to my surprise, I have not yet adjusted to the tranny shift from gear 1 -> 2.

When I briefly jumped back in my old Integra, it was a feeling of relief as I rowed through the gears with no lag whatsoever! This stinks! Why is my TSX not as responsive in the lower registered compared to my Integra?

I find that I typically shift in the 3k range from 1->2, and this is where the most jerkiness is. When I say jerkiness, I think all the 6MTers know what I'm talking about -- a lag between the accellerator press and the engine actually responding to the pedal press.

I think it's the DBW, but I'm not positive. It could be the torque curve, but I'm not positive. What I do know is that I'm embarrased when I'm driving people around and I provide a jerky experience -- as if I can't drive stick!

It's crap, and I am frankly surprised it's not a larger issue at Acura, in the user base, and that it was never identified in any of the glowing reviews in the press.

Any pointers?

Thanks,
Jon

Eeyore

Its just the way the car is. Make the 1-2 shift at lower RPMs and you won't have that problem. I wouldn't be so quick to blame it on the DBW, I used to have this problem on my RSX-S (doesn't have DBW) until I tried shifting 1-2 sooner.

dralph.

I'm bothered by this momentary pause in aceleration also...only in 2nd.

The funny thing is, I didn't even notice it until after I'd had the car for about 5 months. I honestly didn't know if it was new or if I had just failed to notice...duh.

Does hondata improve this "lag"?

sauceman

Yes, it is the DBW.

My personnal suspicion about this is that since the TB is not cable driven, there is a longer delay for it to open. Hence the lag time.

The best way for you to resolve the shifting jerks is by getting on the gas much earlier than you are used to, and much before you let go of the clutch. You almost literally need to learn to drive manual again with this system, because you need to adapt your timing of clutch/throttle. I've tried this early on myself, and found that I was able to smoothen the ride quite significantly that way.

JonDeutsch

So..... why are we left with this tranny 'bug' on a top-rated sports sedan? At some level, I think it's something Acura should address it as a warranty issue!

ClutchPerformer

I don't think it's the DBW...

...it's the gearing.

Powered by Honda

Thats sad...Hondas always get praise for their manual trannys...whats up with the TSX.

sauceman

I don't see why it should be the gearing. There are plenty of tall-geared 5MTs out there that allow very smooth shifts without jerks.

My wife's 94 Tercel being one of them.

makemoney

hey guys im waiting for my 05 6speed mani....is everyone having this problem?

jlukja

Uh oh, shoulda bought an AT?

sleeper

actually, i notice the shift is not as smooth with AT (especially in SS mode) at higher revs as well. it's really smooth 3k and under, though.

TSX OWNa

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jlukja

campaachen

ALCON (All Concerned),

This topic/post has been brought up several times before including one post myself. The 1st-2nd issue is obviously a "sticking" point (no pun intended) w. the MT audience here. Easing on the clutch slowly when engaging 2nd gear is a solution although the AT ppl behind your TSX will be riding your ass until then. The large gap in gear ratios between 1st and 2nd along w. the drive-by wire will make even the most experienced MT drivers initially feel the jerking motion. This should be brought up to Honda 'cause its becoming a trend not noticed on previous MT cars including my Passat.

Master47

I as well am waiting on my '05 6MT. I do remember during my test drive that I shifted quite quickly from 1st to 2nd during take-off from a stop. Does shifting at ~2,500 rpms make it smoother, is that what the concensus is?

Eeyore

IMO, this "problem" is with the driver. Every car is different, and to drive the TSX smoothly requires some different techniques. Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the car or its design.

TechSX

I think the "lag" or "jerkiness" you're refering to is from a combination of the DBW and the gear ratio differences between 1st and 2nd gear. It goes from a 3.267 (1st gear) and drops to a 1.880 (2nd gear), which would drop your RPMs alot, which would explain your bog issue. Would've made more sense to have a slightly higher 2nd gear.

From my experience, all Hondas jerk a little when going from 1st to 2nd, you have to kinda ease off the clutch when engaging 2nd, my this I mean ride the clutch a "little".

JonDeutsch

Well, there is no 1-2 jerk on my Integra, nor my friend's RSX, nor any 6MT TL I have ever test driven.

Sorry folks, this is a TSX issue. And it's not a driver issue. It's a TSX issue. I just wonder why everyone is so "ok" with it when it's obviously a design issue. I'm not saying people are happy about it (check this thread, for instance), but at the same time, there doesn't seem to be any enthusiasm around trying to work with Acura/Honda to solve the problem -- for the current car or future cars.

And, again, I really do wonder why this issue has never come up in all the auto rag reviews! You'd think C&D would've brought this "issue" up, no?

Jon

manavi

I think you're dead-on. I've only been driving my 6MT for about a month now and I've already gotten into the habit of "easing" into 2nd gear without thinking about it.

JonDeutsch

I think it's a bit more than this. How to get to 2nd has everything to do with what RPM you're shifting at.

If you're under 2K, then it's easy. If you're over 5K, it's easy. It's the 2.5-4-5 range that seems to be the jerky zone. Unfortunately for me, this is the range that I'm usually in for normal, spirited launches. Super-cool launches get me over 5K, and shifting isn't so bad. Under 2K is easy.

Jon

manavi

I don't know what to tell ya except keep working on it. You can use it as an excuse to drive your TSX more often.

DenverTSX

I've had my TSX since September 2003 and still on occasion get the hop between 1st and 2nd. The stick is the worst in cold weather (only between 1st and 2nd). When the weather is freezing out, sometimes you have to almost force it into 2nd. You should never have to force it into gear.

I love the shifter in the TSX, but it is the only car I've owned where I am not consistent with the 1st - 2nd shift. It's like golf. There are some days where it is really smooth and you get that perfect shift and the car feels like it has 250 hp going into 2nd. Then, you have those days where it doesn't seem to want to take 2nd gear at the right time.

I remember reading a review over a year ago (either in Motor Trend or Car & Driver) and the reviewer said the TSX does not like to be forced into gear. Once you drive the car and respect the shifter it is magical. This isn't word for word, but it was similar. So, now remembering back to this review, they had some 1st drives that didn't go too smooth also. I will try and find the link.

HPower

I know the feeling too. I think I've mastered it now, pretty much eliminated the jerk which is most felt btwn 1 and 2. Definitely not the nice smooth exchange which I had on my previous 01 Jetta. However, many other Honda's I have driven have the same feel, especially some of the civics. But, once you get the feel of it, you can overcome the jerkiness pretty easily.

TechSX

Lets also not forget that the Integras come with rubber motor mounts vs. the TSX's liquid filled mounts. The stiffer your motor mount, the less rocking motion the motor has, the less "jerk" you feel in the cabin.

The soft motor mounts in the TSX is to blame for TSXs having wheel hop.

05_TSX_GP

I do feel the big ratio drop from 1st to 2nd, and feel power/torque lag going into 2nd when I upshift to it at "low-ish" rpm; but I never felt any jerks doing that...
Are you guys describing the lags as jerks? (probably because I've been "trained" by the 98 Prelude I had which was my first MT)

Either way, when I am not doing spirited driving/launching, I find that lag acceptable... then when I am going a bit more aggressive, I may upshift into 2nd at 4000rpm or higher, then the lag is not that bad as the engine is making OK torque at the matching rpm in 2nd.

05_TSX_GP

Ahh... I see, some here are talking about the difficulty getting from 1st to 2nd due to cold weather instead of the big gear ratio gap between 1st and 2nd

I've read in other threads about the (very) cold weather making the gearbox sticky, especially for 1st to 2nd.... well, I am fortunate enough that where I am, it doesn't get THAT cold for me to experience it

Canyonball

I have a '04 6MT as well and have no jerkiness whatsoever. The only "jerkiness" I get is if I try and launch hard with the stability/traction control on, due to the ECU intercepting my throttle input to regain traction....

JonDeutsch

There are two things that I believe are related:

The 'jerkiness' is not really "back and forth" chasis rocking that the adjective implies in this case. It's the lag that creates an inertia "jerk" -- the torque/HP lag/delay is so abrupt that it changes the inertia that you feel jerked forward before you're jerked back again.

So, I am essentially talking about the affects of the lag between shifting into 2nd and the engine responding with power. This all really came to my attention in headlines when I went back in into my Integra. The Integra GS (not -R) feels quicker off the line, even though I'm sure it's not, because of it's instant response to first and second gear accelleration.

ianS

I have jerk on 1st to 2nd when I tried to shift at high rpm(5k+) and didn't rev match enough. When I shifting on low rpm (below 4k) or if I did a prefect rev match, the car goes very smooth without ne jerk. So I think it is the high gear ratio different and a good rev match is essential for a smooth 1st-2nd shift.

NightShredder

You both are right.

I have no problem with the transition from 1st to 2nd. Just ease it in and it will feel smooth. Slam it in and accelerate like you are in a race car and you will get some roughness. It is all in the driver's ability to drive the car smooth. If you wanted a smooth transmission with little effort you could have bought an AT and let the computer change the gears for you.

GIBSON6594

Right, the 1-2 shift takes some getting used to, but just like everything with driving a stick, eventually you don't even realize your doing it.

Just re train your right foot to gas her properly during that shift