I was surfing over at TOV and came across news about some Japanese mag claiming Honda will be releasing a Turbo 2.2L for the Accord. Pretty much the same info we talked about before, regarding the ClubRSX members trip to Japan.

Then I came across this post from our very own Zapata. Thought it would make for some more interesting discussion.


I'm not sure if this was Zapata's friend or if he just pulled it off A-CL.com. Sorry if this has been posted or discussed before.

I still have alot of trouble ever believing Honda will release a Turbocharged vehicle.

 

Why? You get (much) better low-end torque, the equivalent power of a larger engine without the extra weight, all while retaining the fuel economy of the smaller engine.

The only downsides I can think of are that it is harder to achieve ULEV emissions (although LEV are easy to get), and that without proper design reliability is a potential concern. However, conservatively boosted oil-bearing turbos will last a very long time, and don't cost much more than a clutch to replace anyway...

 

Honda engines are all about refinement, and most Turbo engines tend to be less refined than their NA counterparts. Besides, Honda seems to be rely more on variable valve timing than forced induction as a way of maximizing power.

 

Never said I don't agree with all those points. I just think Honda as a company does'nt feel that Turbo's properly represent their philosophy.

I woud prefer a V or I6 or even a I5. I'm confident they can design a small V6 or I6 that makes plenty of power. Why Honda has'nt come back with an I5 or a small 2.5L V6. They could probly get respectable numbers and great economy/emissions. Instead they've decided to tweak existing engines. I would live to see an I5 or I6 from Honda.

 

Well, if you take a refined engine and turbocharge it, it will still be refined.

Using VVT on small engines to gain power requires that they rev to comparatively high RPM to produce said power. Higher RPM = more noise (even if its a nice noise, as in the TSX). My 1.8T engine is quieter than the K24 at any legal cruising speed, although it is admittedly not as refined when rev'ed.

Low end torque is still very much a function of engine displacement. FI increases the effective displacement.

If you added just 6 PSI of boost to the TSX, you'd see 220 lb-ft of torque or so starting at around 1800 RPM and get at least 250 hp out of it. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

 

I just read a preview of the upcoming Volvo (S40?) in Car & Driver, basically the turbo version will sell for 30K US ans does 0-60 in 6.2 seconds, if I recall correctly. I think that's what Honda will respond to.

 

there is a hybrid accord will sell in north america either mind of this year or early next year. A Turbo 2.2L engine?... huh.. let's wait and see..

 

I don't know of any 6's out there that get 30 mpg or better with an MT (or much over 22-24 in town).

Personally, I find I4's much more fun to drive than 6s. They usually have shorter gearing, so you can stir the gear box a wee bit without risking a ticket.

In town, even a small excursion into the higher RPM range on a 6 in 2nd (or especially 3rd gear) puts you over the speed limit. Where's the fun in that.

I like my 1.8T much more than my 1999 V6 Maxima, despite having 40 fewer horses in a car that weighs about the same...

 

I think Honda is building 'em right now. Including a turbodiesel version of our beloved car.

I suspect the reluctance on the part of Honda to turbocharge the gasoline cars is that they know their buyers and that there are those who will find ways to crank up the boost beyond anything that the Honda engineers ever dreamed. And they can already visualize the ensuing headache of owners dragging their cars back for warranty repairs with the fragments of the bottom end of the motor in a cardboard box.

I've driven Saabs and more recently a Volvo for years and the turbo drivetrains are as smooth as silk. Audi and Mercedes have also offered turbo and supercharged motors for a long time. BMW nearly introduced a twin KKK turbo e60 530i until it dawned on someone that a more powerful, smoother and cheaper motor wouldn't add much to the V8 sales. So they killed the project. But Honda doesn't have to worry about cannibalizing their V8 sales.

I can tell you it's awfully nice to have a turbo motor when you're driving in the mountains.

 

Imagine 10 PSI of boost?

The real reason I don't want to see a turbo TSX is that I'd then have to trade in my TSX for a Turbo variant

Turbo TSX...........We can dream

 

Exactly...:P

 

Fine. Then why not go the Mercedes route and supercharge them instead? You get a much simpler, more predictable system, eliminate turbo lag, and stymie the boost-fiends all in one fell swoop.

 

Careful, though - Too much torque and hp from turbo and you'll run from the "not enough power" complaint smack into the "too much torque steer" complaint (i.e., TL). A conservative-to-modest boost is all that I'd be interested in.

 

I'm just curious...is it costly to make a motor with equal balance shafts? Are there compromises for using such a set up? I just don't know why Honda fitted the RL with them and didn't do the same for the TL. Maybe then all the complaints about torque steer would go away.

 

Presumably you meant equal length half-shafts. This is probably a more of a challenge with the larger engine, but I'm speculating.

 

Yeah, I'm not big on the technical details. My antifreeze level is at the C point in my car and I don't even know where to add more antifreeze! But yeah, that's what I meant.

Anyway, Acura uses them on the RL, which is a 3.5L, and GM has used them in their FWD cars with V8 engines. I don't see why it would be a problem in the TL.

 

Stuff VTM into a Turbo TSX, and I'd be the first one in line, unless this RWD coupe justinjsw was hinting at becomes a reality. I think I'm setting myself up for disappointment.

 

I think the TSX's engine already has equal length half-shafts, doesn't it?

 

I doubt you will ever see anything longer inline engine than 4 cyl simply because it won't fit. Have you ever looked under the hood of a BMW? Imagine trying to turn that I6 sideways for a FWD application. It just won't work. Even Lexus is doing away with the I6 in the next GS300 in favor of a V6 although the car will still be RWD.
A V configuration is also allows things such as VDM where you can turn "off" one bank of the V on the highway to save gas.

 

Yup. Remember the I5 in the Vigor that was longitudinally mounted even though the car was FWD?

(The 2.5 TL may have been the same but I never looked under the hood)

 

That's wierd...

I was asked to do a customer satisfaction survey (administered by a 3rd party for Honda) online a few months ago. There were about 50 or so questions on the survey, and quite a few on my opinions about the incorporation of new features on future products. Long story short.... Most of those questions were about turbochargers. I was asked about my perceptions of turbocharged cars in the luxury segment, whether or not I would buy a turbo'ed inline 4 over a V6, and other stuff that made me think that Honda is serious about turboed engines for higher-end cars.