acn684

I went to Dozo...I wasn't "stuy" material =P - damn profieciency test said i was only good for brooklyn tech! I showed them! HA. lol but i probably wouldn't have gone to stuy anyway. They put way to much pressure on grades for high school students. College i'll accept it. I basically chose dozo. Worked hard there, did community service, played for a school team. In stuy i think all i would've done was study.

bradykp

funny thing is, arent the EPA numbers better on the AT? not that i'm arguing for the AT, just pointing it out

bradykp

but so is greed am i right?

hahaha, hey if you can afford it, enjoy it, but don't forget to drop some change in the local salvation army bucket for christmas!

bradykp

i went to lehigh and saw a lot of the same. one of my good friends has a lot of money, but he drove a used 98 saturn 2 door until he graduated, then his parents got him a mazda 6. there's such a thing as providing safety and quality without spoiling. if they really wanted to provide safety, why not get them volvos? oh yeah, volvos dont look cool.

but still, if his parents can afford it, he might as well enjoy it, and hopefully appreciate it. but get the MANUAL!!!!

dj Dozhe

bell ringin hippies.

bradykp

not that i'm that much more "experienced" than you, but speaking as a post college graduate, the reason why it is "their problem" is because there's more than just buying him a safe reliable car. as a parent, you're also teaching him to respect the things he has (hopefully) and respect money (hopefully) otherwise you turn out like a lot of the brats i went to college with. but hey, they're not all bad. they get good coke. anyways, regardless, his question is how to convince his parents to get the MT.

i say you're only argument is that you are more alert driving a stick simply because you have to be. but there are some good points about being a hot shot driver with the MT. i tend to think most responsible people wouldn't do this, but i also tend to think that someone who is handed a $30,000 car generally, and i say this with caution, because it doesn't apply to everyone, generally is not very responsible.

i speak from experience of having friends who wrecked their passat and were rewarded with a lexus, or something of the sort. anyways, hopefully he's not one of those kids, and he loves the car as much as anyone else.

good luck convincing them!

bradykp

i could be wrong, but i dont know if jason called him a spoiled brat. i think the overall point is that handing your kids a 30,000 car isn't the right thing to do in his opinion. and if they're giving you one, be happy with their (few) limitations on the offer.

the point is not that overall he's a spoiled brat, but that a 16 year old kid shouldn't have a $30k car, which i think is somewhat valid. buying the safest car on the road is a different argument.

dj Dozhe

and why shouldn't a 16 yr old have a 30K car?

bradykp

it's not that all 16 yr olds shouldnt, but generally speaking, buying your 16 year old kid (who shouldnt even have his license yet), a $30,000 car teaches nothing about appreciating money or earning something.

maybe they've already taught that. and maybe we're wrong to doubt that, but a lot of us do.

i think i'll be pretty decent as far as money category goes in the future. i am in IT Consulting and make a good living and my girlfriend is a pharmacist. i fully intend on buying my kid a safe car. but i also fully intend on making him work and appreciate the value of the money that goes to that car. and i still probably won't spend 30k.

it's just a different set of principles and if you dont have them, nothing wrong with that, but it's different.

BusyShifter

This thread is surprisingly long. I do not want to go back and read all of the posts, so I don't know have this been covered yet. A question to the 16-year-old who started the tread --

You want reasons to convince your parents to buy a MT for you. Why do you prefer a MT instead of AT?

dj Dozhe

and I agree. There's no way in hell I'd ever give my 16 yr old a 30K car unless he'd invented cold fusion or a cure for AIDS. I appreciate your view and the fact that while you may not agree with his parents decisions you're not flaming or improperly judging. cheers.

acn684

I wasn't saying it was a good thing to buy him a 30k car, but some people (Jason in particular) is telling him that the right thing to do is buy a Civic because he is 16. I'm not saying whats right or wrong, I'm just saying he is entitled to the car and none of us is to judge whether he should or not.

I'm not saying if he doesn't get it, its wrong. I'm not saying if he gets it, its right. Or either the opposites. I'm just saying that some people have to stop giving him the impression that hes wrong for getting the car.

SPUDMTN

Why is it that some have such a chip on their shoulder about teens and nice vehicles? Parents can (and will) decide what's best for their child. If that means they need to be driving a prestige-branded vehicle, so be it. Who am I to chastise the parents (let alone care) about how much they spent on a first vehicle?

I don't get it.

Further, if I had a dime for each time someone brought up the "that car's too nice for a 16 year old"...sheesh

bradykp

i agree with jason that something like a civic is a more practical car. it's a safe car and it'll be a good car to get experience in driving. i disagree that he is "entitled" to the car. but that's because i don't think we're entitled to anything in life, i think you have to work for it. his parents worked for it obviously, so they are certainly entitled to it. and he's not wrong for getting the car, and i don't think jason meant that either. i think he was saying the parents are wrong for giving him the car. which i agree.

but hey, more power to him and i hope he enjoys/appreciates it.

and even more, i hope he can get the manual, cause it's more fun.

i still don't understand what the rents have against the stick

SPUDMTN

Believe it or not, I've actually found that a stick is better in the snow. Because most automatics don't know when it's snowing out (save for the ones with "winter" mode) they like to play with the gears. When driving in stormy weather, it's best to keep the RPMs higher, the transmission in lower gears, with fewer gear changes--this is much easier to do with a manual gearbox. Further, the TSX has traction control already, so the stick may just be the better option for inclement weather.

It may be a weak argument with the automatic featuring sport shift, but still...

kyotousa

yah i agree....he uses his own personal value to judge on other people
and Jason is not judging the kid...he is judging his parents

which.....i think is pretty stupid

===========
why the hell would i want someone from internet judging my parents =_=||

kyotousa

I think you got it wrong
It's the opposite of what you think
snow mode make your car ride in lower rpm (when you activate snow mode - you'll feel your gas pedal is harder -which means acc. slower)

higher rpm means your wheel spin faster which is bad in snow....=_=|||

jlukja

low gear = high rpm + slow wheel spin = for snow

feliz

With most automatics I've seen when starting in winter/snow mode the cars actually start in 2nd gear.

SPUDMTN

This is so no gear change occurs. So by starting in second, no gear change is necessary, meaning there's no moment when there's no power directed to the wheels (which would cause a loss of traction), and then it will hold second for higher RPM.

So winter mode is effective in:
-constant power to the wheels
-higher RPM
-less frequent gear changes

kyotousa

well when i use snow mode......it's pretty much around 3krpm

high rpm are you tlaking about 5k-7k?

SPUDMTN

High RPM as in around 3k...if I'm not mistaken, doesn't the average vehicle like to cruise at around 1.5k-2k?

kyotousa

i don't think tsx has snow mode =_=|||
i donno when does tsx switch its gear .......so

but yah 3k is about right.........
i am just thinking you are talking about keep the car at 2nd gear when you are running 50mph

SPUDMTN

lol...you don't want the car running in 2nd at 50 mph. I'm talking about around town driving and hills and such...not freeway cruising.

kyotousa

yah lil misunderstanding here...haha

anyway...this comment is irrelevent to this guy
he lives in TX hahahaha

Irfo

Andrew:

Your dad will respond best to the argument that owning a MT will prepare you for life to drive any car, should circumstances demand.

For that matter, with a manual you will learn to understand much better what automatics are attempting to do automatically, and how to help them as you drive.

Maybe also throw in that, unlike with an automatic, you can clutch-start a manual with a dead battery. I don't know whether you still can, but throw that in... since you still could in his day, and he'll believe you. (Also maybe note that one geezer out here suggested it could well be thirty years before you grow tired of clutching...)

As for the rest of the BS in this thread, you and your parents are cool enough not to be buying you some big dumb gas-guzzling projectile guaranteed to save you in a crash, but also to make that crash three times likelier and to kill every one you hit... and that's enough for me.

The other huge point being missed here is that you absolutely should Hav The Nav.

Christ, regardless of what vehicle you're in, your parents don't want you out lost, wandering into potentially dangerous places because you're new to driving and therefore also necessarily new to figuring out how to actually get from here to there, especially when "there" is somewhere new.

To best prepare you for all circumstances -- to best protect you -- your parents need to give you manual transmission, and a navigation system.

SPUDMTN

Nice post and to the nav. I've thought that fumbling with maps and mapquest printouts is kinda distracting, where as the navigation guiding you through voice prompts is far less distracting.

feliz

Good point, it took me 40 years years of a driving stick to get over it and I still get my fix riding motorcycles which of course are all stick. At 65 I'd just as soon spend my bumper to bumper time in an AT car though.

Good luck to the kid whatever he does, I think a lot of us are just envious!!

Sclass88

I disagree. Yes, the nav system is something that pays for itself the first time you get lost. However, to a new driver, a navigation system might be more of a distraction to a young driver than an aid. It will force them to take their eyes off the road instead of focusing on their main objective, which is driving.

I tried to convince my dad to let me have the navigation in my TSX but he said absolutely not. He said that I, like any young driver, would be too distracted and would be playing with the navigation instead of driving resulting in a smacked up TSX . Thats just my

chuson

This thread is getting long but I did read every post since I want to know what others react on this topic. As for the kid, I think he has a good taste on the TSX~!

Different family has different value. Not refer to anyone here, but I'm assuming THOSE who already have a 16 years old son/daughter whatever but still driving a TSX yourself, then most likely you won't be able to afford a $30K car for your child @ this moment. However, if his parent is offering his brother a FX and him a TSX, then they might be most likely driving a $60K+ car, their living standard is totally different between me and you. My friend drove a 05 MB CLK350 but still park his car outside the driveway during winter w/ snow, why? Cause her parent has a Porsche SUV and MB SL500 inside the garage~ so in their case a TSX might be equal to a Honda Civic in ya opinion~

Anywayz~ Andrew, how long have you drive or are you confident to drive a MT in any situation? I know and I read a lot of post about learn to drive MT will have a better understanding of traction, control, more concentrate and whatever reason. BUT, ask yourself once more, how well are you prepare to drive a MT? I'm saying this cause since you are only 16, I'm assuming you just got ya license. I would suggest you go pick up AT, maybe lease a 05/06 TSX AT for a year. Get used to it, learn how to drive safe and properly under ANY road/weather condition. Then go grab yourself an excited MT car. Remember don't drink/dose & drive~!

Enzlow

Andrew, bottom-line get the MT.

When I was 14 my brother got a Ford Ranger with an automatic and when I turned 16 I got a Toyota Tacoma with a manual. Basically, I am a better driver because of it. It is funny to watch my older brother putz around in his AT while I drive fully aware of everything I do in my MT. Also, I drive an AT at work and I hate it. It just plain sucks.

Anyway, I learned how to drive a MT at the age 10!!! (mainly because I rode dirtbikes and switching from bike to car is not that bad at all) Learning at 16 can't be that hard... The Tacoma had a good clutch to learn on, as does the TSX. When I first got my car (4 days ago) it took me a whole hour to get used to the clutch. Also, I let my 19yr old girlfriend drive my new car because I knew that the clutch was easy to operate. I think it would be a hell of a lot easier to learn how to use a MT on the TSX then one of the V6 MT Accords.

But anyway trust me on this one... GET THE MT. Forget what all of those people that are saying how you should just do what your parents want. My parents also wanted me to get an AT but I said, "The manual is truly what I want." They might have fussed a bit about it but they gave in. The car is for YOU and not them.

Oh and if I were to get in the whole "you are too young to get a TSX blah blah blah settle for the AT blah blah blah," I would say, "Never settling for something you don't want is a good value to have." Why live life settling for things that you would like differently? The main difference between the AT and MT is mainly preference. Sure both have their pros and cons but when it comes down to it, it is preference... YOUR PREFERENCE!

Anyhooters, hope that helps... I know the exact situation that you are in right now.

Enzlow

jlukja

I think you missed the point a bit. He want's the MT. His parents are buying the car and don't want him to drive an MT. He's asking our help in convincing his parents why they should buy him the MT.

bbbuzzy

Finally! Someone gets it! As I said before (pg3), it's not about which car the parents can afford,blah,blah,blah. The OP has stated he wants help convincing his generous parents to buy a different version of the car than the one they chose. That's wrong. He should humbly accept the choice his parents have made. End of story.

tcwatkins

Actually that is one reason I (an old driver) didn't get the nav. My eyes kept shifting down the the screen when I saw movement. Probaby can get used to it but since I like to push buttons and not touch screens or use voice, I didn't even try.

One interesting thing about the MT vs. AT discussion which isn't really important to the original poster but could be to others is the extra cost of the AT in the US: ZERO! Don't most charge like a grand extra for an AT? What a bargin!

jlukja

Yes. It may not cost anything up front but may be of more value at resale. However, in the context of this thread, it doesn't seem that cost is as much of a factor.

billym7@gmail.com

i read every post here, it seems like jason, you probably work hard for your money, so do i, so do most people, but it also seems you are quite bitter towards this kid just because he is getting something you worked for. i think you need to calm down jason, some guys get all the breaks, you can't hate for that, would you be just as upset if bob barker gave someone a tsx because they guessed the price of gherkin's pickles and twinkies within 20 cents on the price is right? of course you wouldn't be upset, it doesn't concern you, nor should how this guy gets his car, be happy for him.

being bitter isn't going to make your $30k go back into your pocket, nor is it going to make him go out and buy a 1986 chevy cavalier, so leave it be, be happy that someone is fortunate enough to be given this as a gift or whatever you want to call it, and give him some real advice, we all remember being kids trying to convince our parents to get us something, or allow us to do something. on that note, i think you are probably a pretty responsible guy and you should just let your parents know that since they cost the same, there is really no additional cost, direct or indirect, to the manual transmission vehicle, and if it comes down to it, get the automatic, at least you scored a brand new tsx for $0, you can sell it when you graduate high school or college with your parents help, and maybe then get a stick shift

good luck

ps: my attitude would be different towards this whole situation if: one, this kid was a punk about getting something for nothing, he understands he doesnt necessarily need this car, and two, if jason wasn't so damn bitter about the whole thing

Enzlow

I think I get the point exactly... I said he should say to his parents what I told mine. If he truly wants the manual, then he should tell them that, and not settle for an automatic otherwise. Simple as that. And also like I said, the difference between the two transmissions basically comes down to preference. You could list all of the pros and cons of an AT and a MT in his favor to help convince his parents, but I think that is a waste of time. A MT is his preference, so he should make it clear to his parents and push for it.

bradykp

you proved my point about the value of money. if i had that much, i wouldn't want to pass on to my kid that a tsx to us is worth a civic to other people. that's exactly why i wouldnt get my kid a $30k car. i had one friend in college that had a MB for his summer car, then a Nissan XTerra for his winter car. He got sick of the MB after freshmen year, so then he got an M5 which he kept for 3 years. Point is, the kid had no concept of the value of money. Yet my other friend, whose parents coulda bought him nearly any car that's made in quantities of 100 or more, drove a saturn. he had a lot of nice things, but he learned the value of money.

either way, nothing wrong with learning to drive on a MT. ATs aren't safer. He'll be fine with the AT. I would hesitate on the Navi, because i do think it might be a distraction for someone with no experience driving. a lot of parents don't even allow radios for their kids. A friend of my cousin died in an accident while switching a cd. he veered into the other lane and hit an 18 wheeler head-on. i'd keep distractions to a minimum. and switching gears is not a distraction, it makes you more alert.

Enzlow

Bahaha yeah one of my friends was changing a CD, went up into someone's yard(who happened to be a sheriff) mobbing over small trees and bushes and knocked down a fence. Luckily he was able to back out and take off without the Sheriff finding out.

Anyway, I would agree with the non-navi argument. Keep distractions to a minimum. In Washington State they do that by making it illegal to have more than one friend in your car with you until certain points of driving experience...

jerzpwr

my parents straight up said no when i asked if i could get a manual. Shit i wish i could have though. Their reason was that when i sell it on later ill have a easier time with an automatic than a manual. is this true?