Hello fellas, please forgive me my bad english. Iam from germany, car mechanic. I have a 96 RL 3.5 and some issues with him. He has some shanking when he is hot and idle in P oder N. You can feel some very small misfires. Its my second RL so i know that something ist not right. My first RL idle so smooth you can put a coin on top of the runnin engine.
But this.... No Chance. IT doesnt have any Vacuum leaks, new NGK sparks, new fuel and air filter, timing belt is in right postition, checked the coils and there are all okay. Engine and tranny oil is new. Engine mounts are okay, Not perfect but okay. Cleaned the iacv and so on. Im runnin out of ideas.

Maybe you can Help me....

Thanks a Lot.

 

You may be having a problem with the vacuum controlled hydraulic engine mounts, something to check out. You have all ready replaced many of the parts that could cause the engine vibration.

 

Thanks Mate for the advice. Checked out the 2 mounts today. Get pressure on it. No leaks. Everything is fine. -.-
i also put a new cooling Thermostat and 2 new cooling Sensors( the 2 at the front and top of the intake manifold. )
iam runnin out of ideas. Can it be that there is some Problem with counter/balance shafts? Maybe they are not in correct position!?

 

Sorry to repeat what 2000RL mentioned, but make sure that the vacuum gets to the engine mounts, because I had the same symptoms you describe. Vibration but only at idle.



The engine mounts do not get vacuum all the time, only at idle, below 800rpm I think. This is controlled by a solenoid. My solenoid had gone bad so below 800rpm when the computer activated the solenoid to vacuum was not making it to the engine mounts. See thread at the bottom. You can bypass the solenoid and feed vacuum directly to the mounts see if the vibration goes away.



You also mention you get misfires. Are you sure they are misfires? I’ve never gotten misfires but don’t misfires cause check engine codes, eventually?



https://acurazine.com/forums/first-g...lenoid-961288/

 

Thanks for the advice, i allready checked the rear mounts, i disconected the vacuum lines while idleling. You can feel and hear that there is a vacuum. But maybe not enough or the mounts are leaky!? Can i put some pressure in the mounts, so i do know that they are airtight or only vacuum? What i mean with misfire is just a feeling.... i didnt know it. You can just feel an uneven shaking... but i checked nearly everything on the electric, the PCM, ignition and so on. No error codes so i think there has to be a mechanical issue. The fact is, youre right. Put the foot just a little bit on the pedal up to 1000RPM and the engine is freakin smooth. Leave the pedal and at first the shakin is worse than before, a few seconds later he still vibrates but not so much like before.

 

Did the vibration get even worse when you disconnected the vacuum from the engine mounts? It should.

You should notice a big difference in engine vibration when you connect and disconnect the vacuum from the engine mounts at idle. At least I did notice a big difference.

If you have a vacuum pump, something like this,

https://www.tooldiscounter.com/produ...iABEgIYX_D_BwE

you can vacuum pump directly into the vacuum tube that goes to the engine mounts. As soon as you apply vacuum (at idle) you should see noticeable reduction in vibration. If your pump has a vacuum meter attached you can also check that the engine mounts holds the vacuum you pumped with no leaks.

Seems like you already checked that so it is probably something else. But since you have already gone into the trouble of finding the engine mount vacuum components and hoses, you might as well do a final check to make sure. As I said, vacuum to the engine mounts makes a very big difference in engine vibration. If you disconnect engine vacuum from mounts the vibration should get much worse. If not something is wrong with the engine mounts or their vacuum.



Next, if you have an OBD2 scanner you can look at the Long Term Fuel Trims at idle. If they are high, you may have a vacuum leak.

 

Okay, thank you. Today I will check the mounts again. Last time I didn't put a vacuum on it. But I know that there wasn't any difference in the vibration when I disconnect the vacuum lines from the mounts. Today I will test these two mounts on any leaks, i have a vacuumpump. Sorry but here in Europe the Honda models didn't have obd2 till 2004. -.- Thanks
for all.
But if the mounts really are Bad, I have a way bigger problem. Not available on Honda, Not on Rockauto, and used .... Not a chance. Cars like the RL (or Legend) was sold just a few hundred in Germany.
​​​​

 

The fact that you get NO difference in vibration when you disconnect the vacuum seems suspicious to me. As I said, on my 2003 RL I noticed a big difference. Did you find the solenoid that controls the vacuum to the engine mounts? Are you disconnecting the vacuum before or after the solenoid?

I hope you don’t need new engine mount. But if you do, I seem to have read of some people installing stiffer after market mounts without vacuum control.

 

So, Update. I put a vacuumpump to the Line from the solenoid, Vacuum on both sides. Put it to the mounts and produced some Vacuum. Both mounts are fine. No leaks, stable vacuum for minutes. But no difference on vibrating. -.- this Problem makes me sick..... Maybe I check the fuel pressure this week, and at weekend the countershafts... Maybe.... IDK.

 

I have to say I’m a little puzzled that you get no change in vibration when you apply vacuum to the engine mounts. Regardless of what other vibration problem your engine may have, there should be some difference in vibration with vacuum applied to the mounts vs no vacuum.

 

So, Problem solved. Balance shaft was twisted by 90°. Put it in correct position and tadaaaa everything fine. Thanks for the help.

 

Good to hear another RL is now running well. I have 254k miles on my ‘03.



How did the balance shaft change position? Belt skipped?

 

Tanks. Mine 120k miles.H engine and transmission will runnin at least another 120k ;-).
No, I guess that the last mechanic or the whole shop messed it up. Because i bought it with that issue. Last owner didn't even mention it.

 

Good job diagnosing that. It is a difficult diagnosis. Chances are you will be rewarded with a smooth running car for many years.

Mine, in 254k miles of driving in California, I have had to put in a new power steering pump and I also had to replace one oxygen sensor. That’s it for repairs in 254k miles. Oh and the rear windows both broke their cables so I keep them permanently up. I’m on my third timing belt but still have the original water pump!

I still occasionally see another 1st generation RL on the roads, perhaps twice a month.

Cheers.

 

Thanks for letting us know what fixed it Jaliko! I have the same annoying vibration at idle in gear or out of gear you have been dealing with. I had the dealer replace my timing belt in December 2018 they may have misaligned the balance shaft in the process. The reason I had the dealer due the work was due to the fact that I also needed my Odometer/OAT/Trip indicator fixed on my instrument cluster which was/is beyond my skill level. I "assumed" through process of elimination that it was more then likely the solenoid that controls the mount which is no longer available. I got one off eBay but it was bad so I have just lived with it, it's annoying to me but now I have another possible cause to check out thanks to you!

 

Well thanks, but the fact that I had the complete repair manual helped a lot. My only concern is that someday parts will be broken I can't by here or on Rockauto. Well time will tell. So far I have to do a lot of things more, Speedo Shows the 20% less speed than it really is, power door locks don't work all the time, and so on. I hope I can fix this to.


Seems you didn't need very much on your RL. Awesome mileage.... Well here in German the Legend (RL) was sold since 87-2007. But the 96-03 gen was Not very popular. Only sold a few over the years. 2018 where only less than 80 in the whole country (with over 40 Million Cars). Honda (also Acura) where never popular Here... Only German brands, and most cars where sold or shipped to Africa if they are 10-15 years or older. Not much Youngtimer, or middle aged cars. Oldtimer over 30... Okay... But the rest.... Sorted out.

So iam very glad to hear that you drive your old Acura to this high milage and see another in a while. Maybe there Not runnin this much here, but fortunately in the USA. :-)

 

2000RL. Iam very Happy that I can Help you to, even if it's just a little bit. You can check so sooooo much for this idel shaking... Problem was, i avoided the Balance shaft till the end because its a Lot of work. Bit if you checked everything on yours, maybe you have the same problem especially when your timing belt was replaced 1 year ago. :-)

 

2000RL. Iam very Happy that I can Help you to, even if it's just a little bit. You can check so sooooo much for this idle
shaking... Problem was, i avoided the Balance shaft till the end because its a Lot of work. But if you checked everything on yours, maybe you have the same problem especially when your timing belt was replaced 1 year ago. :-)

 

Jaliko, you asked for help but ended up helping me more than I helped you. So, thank you.

Since you did this I have one last question: How did you align the balancer shaft? The manual shows a "a maintenance hole" (see diagram) that supposedly can be used for alignment. However, when I changed my timing belt, I was not able to find this hole. Seems like it is really hidden and inaccessible unless you are a cockroach or have robotic surgery equipment. I could not even see it, much less access it. I wanted to do the alignment as described in the manual but unable to find this maintenance hole I just took out the old balancer belt and installed the new one being careful not to rotate the balancer pulley. All worked out well but still I'm curious where that balancer maintenance hole is. Did you find it?
I had posted my whole story here: https://acurazine.com/forums/first-g...003-rl-960773/

 

Iam happy if I can help. But honestly my 96 don't habe this hole. All I did was to expose the balance shaft and move it on the correct marks. Like on the Foto i try to Upload Here. :-D

 

Oh thanks. I now wonder if that hole exists at all because I could not find it either, even though it is in my ‘96-01 RL manual. When I did my timing and balancer belt replacements I was afraid that it was not sufficient to line up the balancer pulley marks. If you look at this page from the manual (see photo below) you see how it seems like there are some gears behind the balancer pulley. It is possible that the pulley is connected to the balancer shaft through some sort of gearing ratio (eg 2:1, like the crankshaft and camshafts only line up every two crankshaft turns). In that case, it is not sufficient to line up the external balancer pulley marks, you would have to use this “maintenance hole” for proper balancer shaft alignment.





In any case, the balancer shaft alignment worked for both you and me, but it is perhaps something to keep in mind for the future. One problem is that you have to take off so much stuff to get to the timing belt on these engines that it is not possible to start the engine with the timing belt covers off to see how the balancer behaves and try a different alignment if there are issues.

Good to know that misaligning the balancer shaft causes vibration only at idle, and that this vibration is not affected much by vacuum or no vacuum at the engine mounts. I did not expect that, so thanks for finding out.

I guess not many engines have a balancer belt, (today’s Honda J engines do not) and the balancer belt marks are small, so I can see how an inexperienced shop may just replace the balancer belt and forget to line them up. When you take the balancer belt off that pulley, the pulley spins freely with no resistance. If you don’t have anything holding the balancer pulley in place it will for sure move by the time you have finished installing the timing belt.