2011 Acura RDX Turbo -- Soft Pedal

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Old Jan 9, 2024 | 03:57 PM
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2011 Acura RDX Turbo -- Soft Pedal

I am having an issue that can't seem to be fixed - I have had the brakes bled x 3 in the past year, had front and back brake hoses replaced, and copious amounts of tests run (which Indicate no issues with the ABS) however after approximately 2 months from the brake bleed the pedal with get soft and spongey and go to the floor

I believe the VSA modulator is slowly letting air in the brake lines because for the first month the brakes are great and then slowly they get softer and go closer to the floor

Is there anyone I can verify this is the issue prior to purchasing a new modulator and having it replaced?
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Old Jan 10, 2024 | 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by LoveMy2011
I am having an issue that can't seem to be fixed - I have had the brakes bled x 3 in the past year, had front and back brake hoses replaced, and copious amounts of tests run (which Indicate no issues with the ABS) however after approximately 2 months from the brake bleed the pedal with get soft and spongey and go to the floor

I believe the VSA modulator is slowly letting air in the brake lines because for the first month the brakes are great and then slowly they get softer and go closer to the floor

Is there anyone I can verify this is the issue prior to purchasing a new modulator and having it replaced?
It's more likely one of the brake calipers letting air into the system than the ABS pump module. You can thoroughly inspect for any brake fluid leakage to see if you can find the location of where air may be getting in but sometimes the brake calipers piston seals don't leak brake fluid out but can leak a small amount of air in when the brakes are released. Other less likely areas for the air leak could be the master cylinder or any of the line fittings but you should see some evidence of fluid leaking with the brake lines fittings. Do you notice a drop in the brake fluid level, something more than due to brake pad wear? The master cylinder could be leaking brake fluid into the brake booster and why I asked if the fluid level was dropping yet you're not seeing any leaks but this is a low probability seal failure.
The ABS pump is a very expensive part and easy to check for any external leaks so don't' replace unless certain there's a problem with it and this not likely the problem. I'm assuming the brakes are being bled with the ABS pump being activated to purge air out of the ABS module.
One way to help locate where the problem may be is when the brakes are bled again is to note if there are air bubbles coming from only one of the brake circuits RF/LR or LF/RR, if one of the circuits has the bubbles you can narrow the problem down by a half.
If it takes two months for the pedal to get soft it's a very small air leak so will be difficult to find unless there is some fluid leakage to help locate. If you see no fluid leaks anywhere and the fluid in the master cylinder reservoir isn't dropping too fast I would consider rebuilding or replacing the brake calipers with remanufactured ones first. This may be a problem where you're not going to be able to pinpoint the problem precisely so I'd start with the parts that are most likely to be cause the problem and in my opinion that would be caliper piston seals if there are no visible leaks elsewhere. In no way would I replace the VSA module/ABS pump first unless you get credit for the cost of this repair if it doesn't fix the problem, it's just too expensive and I honestly don't think it will solve your problem.
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Old Jan 10, 2024 | 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DCS
It's more likely one of the brake calipers letting air into the system than the ABS pump module. You can thoroughly inspect for any brake fluid leakage to see if you can find the location of where air may be getting in but sometimes the brake calipers piston seals don't leak brake fluid out but can leak a small amount of air in when the brakes are released. Other less likely areas for the air leak could be the master cylinder or any of the line fittings but you should see some evidence of fluid leaking with the brake lines fittings. Do you notice a drop in the brake fluid level, something more than due to brake pad wear? The master cylinder could be leaking brake fluid into the brake booster and why I asked if the fluid level was dropping yet you're not seeing any leaks but this is a low probability seal failure.
The ABS pump is a very expensive part and easy to check for any external leaks so don't' replace unless certain there's a problem with it and this not likely the problem. I'm assuming the brakes are being bled with the ABS pump being activated to purge air out of the ABS module.
One way to help locate where the problem may be is when the brakes are bled again is to note if there are air bubbles coming from only one of the brake circuits RF/LR or LF/RR, if one of the circuits has the bubbles you can narrow the problem down by a half.
If it takes two months for the pedal to get soft it's a very small air leak so will be difficult to find unless there is some fluid leakage to help locate. If you see no fluid leaks anywhere and the fluid in the master cylinder reservoir isn't dropping too fast I would consider rebuilding or replacing the brake calipers with remanufactured ones first. This may be a problem where you're not going to be able to pinpoint the problem precisely so I'd start with the parts that are most likely to be cause the problem and in my opinion that would be caliper piston seals if there are no visible leaks elsewhere. In no way would I replace the VSA module/ABS pump first unless you get credit for the cost of this repair if it doesn't fix the problem, it's just too expensive and I honestly don't think it will solve your problem.
Thanks
Appreciate all the information
I haven't noticed any leaks and unfortunately master cylinder reservoir isn't dropping fast

It has been such a frustrating process - I wish there was a leak and solution - but your suggestion on the seals makes sense especially based on age.

Car only has 95k miles and I would love to be able to drive it another 5 years
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Old Jan 10, 2024 | 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveMy2011
Thanks
Appreciate all the information
I haven't noticed any leaks and unfortunately master cylinder reservoir isn't dropping fast

It has been such a frustrating process - I wish there was a leak and solution - but your suggestion on the seals makes sense especially based on age.

Car only has 95k miles and I would love to be able to drive it another 5 years
Yes, it is a frustrating process I recently went through a long and expensive soft brake pedal journey myself. Not an air leak over time like your problem but a soft pedal that I just couldn't firm up and ended up replacing just about everything in the brake system, some items more than once.

With your car it sounds like the brakes get better after each brake bleed and then gradually deteriorate over time, correct?
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Old Jan 10, 2024 | 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DCS
Yes, it is a frustrating process I recently went through a long and expensive soft brake pedal journey myself. Not an air leak over time like your problem but a soft pedal that I just couldn't firm up and ended up replacing just about everything in the brake system, some items more than once.

With your car it sounds like the brakes get better after each brake bleed and then gradually deteriorate over time, correct?
Yes
After the bleed they are rock hard great and slowly after time (this last one I tracked it was roughly 2 months) and it's back to soft

​​​​​​I can still brake I am just on the floor with more than 50% pressure id say
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Old Jan 10, 2024 | 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveMy2011
Yes
After the bleed they are rock hard great and slowly after time (this last one I tracked it was roughly 2 months) and it's back to soft

​​​​​​I can still brake I am just on the floor with more than 50% pressure id say
Based on the fact that brakes get much better after they're bled it is air slowly getting into the system. If it is a caliper piston seal as I suspect you might be able to detect which wheel it is by the amount of air bled out of the line when the pedal has gotten soft again. If air is getting sucked in through a bad seal, one wheel/brake line is going to have more air bubbles showing up as the line is being bled.
The least expensive way to repair the calipers it to rebuild them yourself or buy some remanufactured ones. I rebuilt all four calipers on my car for less than $10 a caliper, which is the cost of the piston seal and dust boot and if you don't need any other parts such as the piston, but rebuilding them is not a job for everyone. The remanufactured ones from Acura cost ~$140 for the front calipers and about $80 for the rear calipers (not from Acura, looks like they only have news ones for ~$190). These prices are based off of parts from Acurapartswarehouse.
If you have someone bleed your brakes again have them pay close attention to the amount of air that is bled from each wheel. If you decide to replace the calipers and you don't know where the air leak is you could replace in pairs first, either front or rears and go from there.
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Old Jan 10, 2024 | 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DCS
Based on the fact that brakes get much better after they're bled it is air slowly getting into the system. If it is a caliper piston seal as I suspect you might be able to detect which wheel it is by the amount of air bled out of the line when the pedal has gotten soft again. If air is getting sucked in through a bad seal, one wheel/brake line is going to have more air bubbles showing up as the line is being bled.
The least expensive way to repair the calipers it to rebuild them yourself or buy some remanufactured ones. I rebuilt all four calipers on my car for less than $10 a caliper, which is the cost of the piston seal and dust boot and if you don't need any other parts such as the piston, but rebuilding them is not a job for everyone. The remanufactured ones from Acura cost ~$140 for the front calipers and about $80 for the rear calipers (not from Acura, looks like they only have news ones for ~$190). These prices are based off of parts from Acurapartswarehouse.
If you have someone bleed your brakes again have them pay close attention to the amount of air that is bled from each wheel. If you decide to replace the calipers and you don't know where the air leak is you could replace in pairs first, either front or rears and go from there.
Ok that makes sense
I'll probably have to get it done this month
Hopefully that is the answer - great car other than this and replacing a front headlight (what a pain in the ass Acura made that)
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