ThePlainsman

I thought Acura was an upscale brand?

Missing Features:

Ultrasonic park assist
Traction Control (?)
Power side mirrors
In-cabin rear hatch release button
Remote start
Power rear hatch
Heated seat backs (not just seat cushions)

I have all of the above in my Saturn Outlook XR. I wish I had them in my RDX. Is GM now more upscale than Acura?

cwepruk

The RDX has traction control and power side mirrors. The in cabin hatch release is just the unlock button. There is a rearview camera IIRC on the tech package.

Remote start is a factory option, but it's shitty compared to aftermarket systems IMO.

The main things I'd like are:

-auto dim side mirrors
-power passenger seat
-power hatch
- power tilt/telescope with memory

creativeguy

It most certainly has Traction control, power side mirrors, and a driver's heated seatback. A lot of the other stuff you mentioned are gimmicks to sweeten the deal on an inferior car. Saturn's offer all that stuff to distract from the no-frills design, engineering, and assembly.

MMike1981

dude....go enjoy ur SATURN...honestly.

ur complaint is PARK ASSIST? thats an easy accessory, get a little beep thing that measures. what next, driver assist?

the RDX isnt meant to be a super luxo tuned SUV...you shoulda moved up to the MDX then you wouldnt have as many gripes and maybe the MDX could measure up to the saturn, lol

canuckle

If you actually own an RDX...what exactly do you think SH-AWD and VSA do?

Better question, what prompted you to buy it in the first place?

And best question...how could you possibly think that there are no power mirrors?

ThePlainsman

I own both an Outlook XR and an RDX Tech. Purchased both brand new this year. I got the Outlook first. But traction control and AWD are not mutually exclusive. The better vehicles come with both. And traction control is not the same thing as stability control.

By power mirrors, I mean power fold. I bought my RDX last month and haven't found the switch for power fold.

The new GM lambda platform (Outlook, Acadia and Enclave) is better than the MDX. Were they not better, I would've bought an MDX. When I went looking for a five seater to add to the eight seater, I bought an RDX instead of the new Saturn Vue (really an Opel with Vue nameplate) because the RDX was better.

RDX is better than Saturn Vue
Outlook is better than MDX

I bought the best of each.

LukeaTron

The SH-AWD is traction control. Very good traction control from what I hear.

You don't seem very happy with your purchase.

loulinjai

RDX comes with SH-AWD.
stability control AND traction control all integrated into VSA.
I'm surprised any owner didn't know that.

Each car has it's problems. I've had a friend whose brane new outlook have power window problems, where two windows didn't open at all.
Theres already a recall on Outlook for frontal airbag failure.

MDX has a goofy grill
Each has its pro/con

cwepruk

The Outlook isn't in the same league as the MDX.

I guess for a people hauler though, you get a good bang for the buck with the Outlook.

mau108

Ultrasonic park assist - add it on, honeslty if you can't back up a car without this useless item you shouldnt be driving
Traction Control (?) - shawd with vsa includes TC
Power side mirrors - I agree this should be a feature on the rdx especially with its wide mirror, getting into a standard size garage is nervous :P but doable with the mirrors not folded
In-cabin rear hatch release button - wtf would you need this for?? You just press a button at the back and it releases it :P in cabin hatch release is just a waste of buttons this day in time.
Remote start - I don't think this is standard on a lot of cars, plus the factory systems are crappy, you start the car, but when you open the door it turns off, then you gotta start it again, big stress on the starter and motor I'd rather do what manufacturers recommend, start, wait 2 minutes and drive off.
Power rear hatch - This is something the rdx can use, especially for closing the rear hatch
Heated seat backs (not just seat cushions) - driver seat is heated at the bottom and back (there is also lumbar support adjustments), passenger seat doesn't have it for a safety reason.

If you dislike the RDX soo much, go trade it in for a Vue. The vue I believe boasts a 3.5 honda motor and tranny (this is what I heard) but everything else in it is depressing.

batman

- I will agree with the power folding mirrors. Those would be awesome.
- Heated seat back. meh They peobably should have put it in the pass seat.
- Power rear hatch. Yes Yes and Yes.
I would like reclining rear seats. I never sit back there but it would be a good addition.

Also a two-way opening center console. Not a fan of the way it opens. But that's small.

Yes the vue has a Honda engine.

ThePlainsman

Not anymore. Not the 2008 redesign. Not one bolt is from Honda. It's an Opel. GM slapped a Saturn badge on it and called it "Vue."

Pacer

My Tech has parking assist...doesn't yours have that rear-view camera as well? IMHO, seeing where you are headed is better than parking "blind" with audible sensors.

That GM platform is nice, congrats on your ride. One thing you should understand is that Acura is not an "upper crust luxury" brand. Their niche is more luxo-tech than luxo-luxo. But I assume nobody MADE you buy your RDX and you knew all these features -- and the missing ones -- ahead of time. Or not?

Either way, for the money and the quality and technology you get, it is an excellent, excellent vehicle, even with a few shortcomings.

ThePlainsman

In-cabin rear hatch release is good for when you do not want to get out of the car but someone else wants to load something into the rear. I do this all the time at upscale supermarkets, Home Depot, whatever. And it should be a powered lift gate.

Another gripe about this supposed upscale brand, where are the auto-headlights? I want auto headlights and the ability to turn off the DRLs at my option. I just want the option. I can turn a knob a half inch in my Outlook and turn off the DRLs, if I feel like it. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. With auto-headlights I can leave my HIDs on and indoors in parking garages or whatever, they turn on automatically when natural light dims to a certain level. They shut off automatically. Of cousre, I have the option to switch from auto to manual HIDs at my discretion. Nice.

And the soundproofing in the RDX doesn't come close to the Outlook. Lots of road noise in the RDX. The Outlook is quiet as a crypt inside, especially with the Touring Package which comes with 19 inch tires and upgraded suspension.

Anyway, I got the RDX to be my daily commuter but it's a long commute (60 miles each way). It would be nice if it was truly more upscale like the Outlook XR, which we use on long-distance family trips across the country because it is so comfortable and roomy.

It came down to the RDX or the Land Rover LR2 or the Infiniti FX 35. The Infiniti cost significantly more with the same options and the LR2 just wasn't fast enough, so I went for the cheapest ride, the RDX. This is my first Acura. I hope I didn't make a mistake.

The backup camera is okay but in GM's Lambda platform, you get sensors on screen that tell you how close you are. Just having a camera is deceiving. The Ultrasonic Parking Assist works like a dream. With a vehicle much bigger than the RDX, I've backed up flawlessly in all sorts of environments. Not only do you ge a beep, you also get a light inside the cabin which you can see in the rearview mirror while backing up (or if you prefer to turn your head around you also see the light). The first light is at four or five feet. It stays on. Close to three feet and you get a second light and beep. 18 inches and a third light comes on. Keep backing up until about six inches when all three lights flash in unison (plus the audible warning). It's very cool. Perfect parking.

I wish the RDX had it. Outlook/Acadia/Enclave aren't the only upscale vehicles with it. The LR2 has it and it's in the same size/price class as the RDX.

mau108

I don't get the rear hatch part? You want the glass piece to seperate on its own like the 1st gen crv's ? If you want someone else to open the door you just hit unlock from inside (if the car is not already unlocked which if it was in park it would with the key in the ignition) just press the button on the rear door.

I agree the road noise is not bad, not BMW like noise suppression but good enough.

Backup camera wise to each their own, t his is the first car we've owned that has one although sometimes it does come in handy most of the time i do it old school style and actually use my mirrors and my head

The LR2 does not even come close to the RDX in terms of styling, performance and reliability.

Why didn't you look into a BMW X3 or X5?

sj993

I don't know, I feel like the RDX has more than enough technology on it. The only thing I wish it had is, as you mentioned the automatic headlights. I had it on my Nissan Pathfinder and I miss it. Other than that I have no complaints. After all it is just a car and for the price I find it to be extremely well equipped.

XLR8R

From the Saturn Outlook forums:

and this response:

Could this be someone we know, who may not be enjoying the GM experience as much as we thought?

XLR8R

Then there's this interesting scoop:

Immediate stop sale on ALL vehicles on dealer lots and in transit? Something tells me this isn't to upgrade the stereo. More like Emergency...maybe safety issue?

Has GM tripped over their schwantz again?

BleuM&M

I mean, what the HECK are they thinking?!? Really now, why should anyone have to touch a switch to get some wiping?? We live in an age where there are robots that walk, talk, serve the proper drinks, play violin, but we have to drive vehicles with NO AUTOMATIC WIPERS?

No wait, there is one vehicle, the Saturn. Despite the stop-sale order, existing Saturns with the appropriate options package continue to wipe the noses of whiners who want Mommy to take care of them.

No immediate comment from Acura, this reporter assumes they are re-thinking their concept of 'driver involvement'.

Rumor has it that the motto 'Advance' may be displaced by the rising tide of retro. Trial balloons are being floated: 'Back to the Womb'.

BleuM&M

Have any of the Mods done a DNA swipe on Plainsman for a possible match on the oft-missed and equally bent (correction: misunderstood) A-P, AbovePrime???

Eh?

F.Rizzo

Take my word for it

The RDX forum is NOT the place to voice any dissenting opinions on the car. Nobody here wants to hear it and will defend their purchase to the death!!!

I agree that missing items like rain sensing wipers, auto lights, memory seats, the huge amounts of road noise and the one that still bugs me: a barely visible in bright lights or with sunglasses on nav screen - are all constant reminders of the car's "step down" status and should have been addressed - especially for a base price of $37k for a tech. A guy at work bought a new Camry (for less than the cost of the RDX tech) and it had heated and cooled seats Oh well it IS a Camry.

The thing is that after one year, I like the car more now than I did when I got it. I beat it like a rental car and it has given NO major problems other than a couple of blown speakers. It handles pretty good, is pleasant to look at, has no squeaks or rattles. Service is cheap, it's fun to drive, easy to get in and out of, offers great utility, etc.

I'm so impressed with Acura, I'm strongly considering a new RL in a couple of months when the lease is up on our Benz. It has a lot of the same shortcoming in it's class as the RDX does, wipers, heated passenger seats, and a lack of low end power - but overall it seems like the best package out there in the class - and it's a four+ year old design!

All I can tell you is that I was/am like you - and you'll get used to it - but it will always bug you a little bit. It still does me.

FWIW: I think the car you want it the EX 35. But it's like $3k more. Would it be worth it?

SinCity

If you guys think the RDX is loud, wait till you get into a CX-7.

chipt911

I've been thinking the same thing. I wondered where AP went but now believe he was reincarnated as ThePlainsman. I too have small grips about the RDX and have no problem with issues being brought to light, but this guy has not one, but two threads about what he dislikes about it.

Radec

From my research, a comparable EX realistically would be more like 5-7k more once you add Nav, Leather, etc. Dealers were last week were quoting me 41.5-43k (before destination and other dealer add-ons) for models they had rolling in...and obviously they weren't ready to bargain yet!! None of these models had the new EX Tech package either, that's another 2k.

MMike1981

[QUOTE=F.Rizzo]Take my word for it

The RDX forum is NOT the place to voice any dissenting opinions on the car. Nobody here wants to hear it and will defend their purchase to the death!!!

QUOTE]

um no not really. when someone comes on here proclaiming, out of all car brands, a SATURN to be the top of the moutain, ur going to get backlash, whether it be acura owners, toyota, honda whoever

the plainsman said the OUTLOOK is a better vehicle than the MDX....i hope everyone caught that. THAT is justifying a purchase.

Saturn may be changing their vehicles and trying to compete with imports, but in no way has their dependability/reliability been proven yet, and during this change--they will need at least a solid 5, maybe even 10 years to show that their cars, for lack of better words, are NOT shit. If they follow hyaudi's (however you spell it) path, people down the road may turn to saturn as a good cheaper buy, until then....im sure the majority of this country will avoid their vehicles just as they have in the past. spending 41k on a saturn...you realize you could have been in a BMW, BENZ, INFINIT, etc, basically anything else actually WORTH a 41k price tag.

F.Rizzo

[QUOTE=MMike1981]
You make my point exactly.

As a matter of fact, you should never go on a specific car board to complain about THAT car......those people are on that board because they like the vehicle and dont want to hear it....but people are especially touchy here, IMHO.

MMike1981

im not sure if we are on the same page.....i was speaking in reference to him in regards to his saturn purchase, not the RDX.

if you dont like something, you dont like it, im not the type of person who is going to give you a list of reasons why you should like it lol.

if the plainsman wants to speak subjectively about why he thinks a Saturn is a better product, thats fine with me....objectively, hes way off.

Pote757

Upscale cars, upscale groceries, but you swing your own lumber at Home Depot? I'd just have them deliver! lol Thank god you dont have to get out to load your own groceries. In reality, a power rear lift gate is a very nice thing when you are carrying a baby and some other delicate item and you dont want to have to lay it on the ground while you open the hatch. I'd vote for for this feature, just not to load my upscale cabbage and beans at the IGA!

Truth be told, as with every car out there, there are some petty "what were they thinking?" items with the RDX. To me, the A/C on/off switch should have a led light tht shows it is on or off like EVERY OTHER switch on that pad. Example the dual button. It is the only button on that pad that doesnt have an indicator light. Also, I like the fact that there are 2 indicators for the Cruise Control - one showing armed and one showing active, but I dont get why when you power off the car, it doesnt reset the cruise. It's kinda convienient not to have to turn it on all the time, but if it will come on when the car powers on, why even have an option to turn it on or off? Why not have it armed at all times? Frankly all you "Safety Jones" guys who love all the safety stuff in the car should be screaming about this because you could "inadvertantly" trip the Cruise and crash!!

Also wondering why there is such a huge waste of guage space on the right guage pod. I'd love to see the engine temp bar graph moved into that space off of the MID, and maybe some other useful data like instant mpg bar graph.

Finally, I hate how the dash dimmer is so awkward to reach and it doesnt dim the GPS screen.

But all in all, it gets me from point a to point b comfortably. And isnt that why we buy a car, even an upscale one?

Radec

After a week in my RDX, there are only 2 things that my G35 had that I found I miss.

1. Auto lights
2. Independent overhead lights for the back seat. 2 kids, 1 light=Instant argument.

ThePlainsman

I love BMW cars but I don't like the looks of BMW SUVs. They are also overpriced. As to the two or three guys trying to tear down the Outlook, I think you're just jealous. I get to enjoy and RDX and an Outlook, both fully loaded with all the toys. As MMike correctly stated, I didn't say the Outlook was better than the RDX. They are in two different vehicle classes because of the size difference. I said the top of the line Outlook XR is better than the MDX. I started to buy an MDX but after test driving one and an Outlook XR it was no contest. By the way, this is my first Saturn just like the RDX is my first Acura. I wasn't a "fanboy" of either company. I'm 54 years old and have owned a lot of cars. I'd never been in either a Saturn or an Acura showroom before this year.

I never said the RDX was a crummy vehicle. I paid good money for it, I better like it, as my dad used to say when I was a kid. I'm just surprised that it is lacking some things I thought would automatically be included in an "upscale" brand like Acura when I can get them in a Saturn or a less expensive Nissan. Either GM has moved upmarket with its new Lambda platform or Acura is not as upscale as I thought. I think its a little bit of both.

If all I wanted in a car is to get from point A to point B, I'd buy the least expensive, most fuel-efficient car I could find regardless of brand. That's not why most people select the car they do. I picked the RDX for two reasons: superior PERFORMANCE in its class; and excellent tech toys for under 40K. I like acceleration, speed and tech toys. I can't believe anybody on this board bought the RDX just to get from point A to point B. Every one of us picked it for some reason or reasons that appealed to us in some visceral way. It might've been brand loyalty, brand image, exterior looks, performance, tech toys, utility, or some combination of the above. It damn sure wasn't gas mileage. And when we do buy something that appeals to us we naturally draw comparisons to competing products.

Where's the crime?

ThePlainsman

[QUOTE=MMike1981]I appreciate your post, Mike, but what BMW, BENZ, INFINITI could I have gotten into for 41K that comes with:

Passenger Seating for EIGHT Adult-sized people
Heated leather seats with 4/levels
Dual automatic climate control
Xenon HIDs
XM Satellite Radio
DVD Navigation
Dual Sunroofs
Advanced Audio
Trailering Package
DRLs you can turn off
Second Row that moves back and forward for more legroom
Power recline driver seat, with lumbar support
AC/Heat controls all three rows
DVD Entertainment System for 2nd and 3rd Rows
5-Star crash rating
AWD
Vehicle Stabillity Control
Power Rear Hatch
Back-up Camera
Ultrasonic Parking Assist
Heated Power folding side mirrors w/integrated turn signals
Automatic headlights
Remote Start
Whisper Quiet interior
Rides like a car not a truck

Sure, I could've gotten a tiny four person German sedan for that money. I could've gotten a five passenger SUV stripped to the gills for that money. But name the 8-Passenger German or Japanese vehicle with equal passenger and cargo volume and all those features for that price.

Just let me know what model BMW, BENZ or Infiniti can match that for the same price and I'll buy it.

GM hit a home run with the Lambda platform. The Buick Enclave version is more luxurious than a comparably sized Lexus and for 15-20K less money.

XLR8R

The Lambda platform is certainly GM's best X-over effort, but I doubt that any full-size SUV-ish vehicle can save or support a car company. Every company's bread-and-butter is the mid-size and compact sedan. Every company is striving to achieve the success of Camry/Corolla and Accord/Civic. In that regard the new Malibu is the best rendering of the Epsilon to date, but it still trails the competition in significant areas.

While the Outlook is well designed from a practicality and convenience perspective, GM has inexplicibly neglected rear crash protection. There are no center head restraints in the 2nd or 3rd rows. The 2nd row head restraints do not adjust, and it appears that the 3rd row does not either. According to the NHTSA, the Outlook has no active (they call it "dynamic") head restraints at all, but they don't do rear impact.

The IIHS rear impact test is non-destructive; requiring only the manufacturer to provide the seat assemblies for a sled test. GM has not provided IIHS with the seats, and speculation is rampant that they know it will test "Poor". (Acura quickly provided RDX and MDX seats in order to get the "Good" ratings published.)

All of the Outlook's positive features are negated by the potential for a "Poor" impact test. I view this as proof that GM still doesn't get it -- Both the Cobalt and the NEW Malibu still have no center rear head restraints.

I personally, will give no consideration to a new vehicle that fails to rate 5 stars impact, and an IIHS "Top Safety Pick".

cwepruk

The Lambda platform still doesn't have any kind of "sport" to it. It's not a bad thing, but it's fairly bland and too big/slow for me.

In addition, the Enclave interior still looks like ass to me, though I think the exterior is a home run. I think the Outlook/Acadia are more tasteful inside, but GM has really got to stop using the same steering wheel in every vehicle.

ThePlainsman

Agree 100%. But it wasn't designed to have "sport" to it. It was designed to be a super comfortable, 7-8 passenger family hauler that drives like a car instead of a truck. The MDX may have more sport but the 7-8 passenger part is a crock, unless passengers 6-8 are small children instead of teenagers or grandma and grandpa. And there is no room for luggage behind the 3rd row. That makes the MDX inadequate for one of its advertised purposes.

My only claim is that Acura does not have a family hauler as roomy and comfortable as the Outlook/Acadia/Enclave that can genuinely haul 8 adult-sized passengers (who can still enjoy all the tech toys MDX owners do) and pay 10K less money. Roominess and comfort combined with the tech toys was my need and Acura couldn't fill it. They just don't have a product that meets that need as well as GM. And none of the Acura fanboys on this board can refute that.

XLR8R

No disagreement there. Perhaps the Toyota Sequoia would provide the adult 3rd row and overall space. The Sequoia has more cargo volume (27/128 vs Outlook 20/117) but a smaller 3rd row. I'm guessing GM beats Toyota on features for the price though, and the Lambda certainly wins on fuel economy.

My grievance with GM is that they continue to advertise and operate as if their target demographic are morons: appealing to patriotism for products made in Mexico, and releasing brand-new platforms that can't pass the newest safety tests.

By the way, here's a Saturn memo on the Outlook stop sale. There should be a TSB out shortly:

Looks like there will be a Recall on the floor weld.

ThePlainsman

Every new car I've owned has been recalled at least once except a Chevy Z24 that I owned back in the 80s in my bachelor days. I definitely did not buy my first Saturn out of patriotism. I bought it out of pragmatism and value. I'll never be accused of being brand loyal. I have no loyalty. I'm not loyal to a religion (I don't go to church anymore), a political party (I'm a registered Independent); I'm not a member of any fraternal organizations. I'll buy whatever is going to give me what I want regardless of brand.

I find it amusing that so many are "Ford" people or "Acura" people, or "Volvo" people and anything else except their favorite brand at best is suspect or at worst is crap. Then there are the fanboys of "German" brands or "Japanese" brands or "American" brands. I know people who buy certain brands like Lexus because their colleagues at the office buy Lexus and they want to "fit in." That's real narrow-mindedness. Whatever happened to individuality?

Crash ratings are pretty good on the Outlook too:

"Crash Test Ratings
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's (NHTSA)

Frontal:
Side:
The 2007 Saturn Outlook large crossover sport-utility equipped with side-impact airbags received a 5-star rating for its performance in the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's (NHTSA) front crash and side-impact crash tests; rear crash and rollover ratings have not yet been released.

For testing frontal collisions, crash-test dummies are placed in driver and front passenger seats and secured with the vehicle's seat belts. Vehicles are crashed into a fixed barrier at 35 miles per hour (56 km/h), which is equivalent to a head-on collision between two similar size vehicles each moving at 35 mph. Instruments measure the force of impact to each dummy's head, chest, and legs. The resulting information indicates a belted person's chances of incurring a serious injury in the event of a crash.

For side crash ratings, crash-rating dummies representing an average-sized adult are placed in the driver and rear passenger seats (driver's side) and secured with the vehicle's seat belts. The side crash rating represents an intersection-type collision with a 3,015 pound (1368 kg) barrier moving at 38.5 mph (62 km/h) into a standing vehicle. The moving barrier is covered with material that has "give" to replicate the front of a vehicle. Since all rated vehicles are impacted by the same size barrier, it is possible to compare all vehicles with each other when looking at side crash protection ratings. Instruments measure the force of impact to each dummy's head, neck, chest, and pelvis. Side-collision star ratings indicate the chance of a serious chest injury for the driver, front seat passenger, and the rear seat passenger (first and second row occupants). Head injury, although measured, is not currently included in the star rating. An excessive head injury score (HIC greater than 1,000) is reported separately as a safety concern. As with the frontal crash ratings, a serious injury is one requiring immediate hospitalization and may be life threatening.

A five-star rating in the frontal crash test indicates that there is a 10% or less chance of serious injury. In the side-impact tests, a five-start rating means a 5% or less chance of serious injury."

XLR8R

Perhaps you missed my point:

XLR8R

Active head restraints and rear impact testing are required for the IIHS "Top Safety Pick". GM is releasing totally new designs without regard for this.

The present IIHS list contains exactly one GM vehicle; the Saab 9-3, which is an Epsilon from 2003. Where are the Epsilon domestics?

Five years later, and not one other GM product meets the standard. GM apparently believes that American consumers are either uninformed or fools.

cwepruk

A few GM cars are Epsilon based. G6, Malibu, Aura for starters.

ThePlainsman

There are no tests yet on the Saturn Outlook for rear impact testing by that particular organization. But the new Vue gets a "Good" rating. And I could care less about any GM brand except the one that I own.

Top Safety Pick also takes into account front, side and rollover testing. Testing by the NHTSA rates the Outlook identical to the RDX on those tests. I don't know about your IIHS organization. That's the insurance industry and they're crooks.