Gnate

iTrader: (10)

How do you feel about me getting a stage 2 bisimoto cam with valvesprings & lifters?

There is also a stage 1.2 turbo cam available... would it be best to just wait and get the 1.2 turbo cam after i turbo, or get the stage 2 now and run that with the turbo later?

In other words, seeing as its called a "1.2 turbo cam" is that better for turbo than the "stage 2 cam" or what? They both cost the same for the grind.

Also, if I were to get the cam, what do you guys think about running an h22 trans for higher revving? And about tuning, I know the h series trans can bolt up to the F, but how much tuning would be necessary, would I be best off just getting a new ecu?

Anyways, I plan on getting headwork and all that shit as well.

Thanks, I gotta go to work.

SupraManAG

all depends on what type of power ur planning on
i say go for it and if you want a H22 tranny im willing to trade
tunning i say S300 but thats me...

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

What is the lift and duration for both cams so we can compare?

Depending on the size of your turbo, I would reconsider keeping your f series trans. Short gear ratios and turbos dont go hand in hand. AGAIN, that depends though on the size of the turbo whether or not it becomes an issue.

Blazin Si

Get the turbo cam if you planning on going FI in the near future. I don't know the specs on these cams so I can't really comment other than that.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

nate, i'd worry about saving for a turbo more than dumping money on a cam that won't give you much benefit

Gnate

iTrader: (10)

stage 1.2 turbo cam grind

0.396" valve lift on the intake and 0.410" exh; 220 deg duration on intake and 227 deg exhaust at 0.040"

Stage 2 cam:

0.410" valve lift on the intake and 0.370 exh; 230 deg duration on intake and exhaust at 0.040"

please clean this thread up from noobs other than myself, I actually want a serious thread with people who know stuff.

EDIT BY BLACKACK: Cleaned

Gnate

iTrader: (10)

Honestly if I were going to boost I really wouldn't be trying to push the engine to the limits. at max i'd want 250 - 300 whp daily.

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

OMG was I scratching my head on this one. Really wish I reread your very first post more carefully.



Alright, well, do you know what valve lift and duration is?

Lift is nothing more then a term used for how much/wide your valve is opened.

Duration is a term for how long that particular valve stays open.

Those are not the only 2 things that have an impact when choosing/building the right cam. There is also Centerline and Seperation. To be honest with you, you'll never hear anyone talk about that unless you're talking to someone that knows their stuff. I can tell you right now, the majority of the aftermarket scene talks about Duration and Lift the most. Don't get too worked up over it as those terms are used for those that are building the cams or just really know their stuff.


Knowing just that, it would confuse you looking at the above specs ASSUMING they were both for turbo applications. This whole time I was trying to figure out whether one was meant for a ball bearing turbo and the other for a blade type, lol. I was wondering why on the 2nd cam they brought more air in, but reduced the amount of air coming out, while at the same time keeping it open longer. Man was I stumped till I reread your post and looked them up.

Anyways, the first one will definitely provide you more power with a turbo'd application.

The 2nd one would be interesting if you could ask them to match the valve lift of the exhaust of the first one, and increase the duration. But then we're looking at something that might not be streetable Just what I like to hear


Well, after all this was said, I was preparing for your next question. I would assume your next question would be, "Wouldn't the 2nd cam put down more power if more air is coming into the engine".

My attempt to answer that was going to be how much more important that exhaust valve would have been compared to the intake on a turbo'd app, but then came across a lovely quote by your builder Bismoto himself.


The biggest mistake boosted enthusiasts make is place an N/A designed cam in their turbo'd engine: the increased duration, and lobe separation qualities cause lackluster performance due to boost blowing right through the exhaust during the overlap event.

A purposely designed cam for turbocharged applications, like our level 1.2 turbo cam, addresses the need for more exhaust lift and duration than our level 1 grinds, and wider lobe separation to allow you to build boost sooner, and retain it longer throughout the powerband.

Customers have reported excellent gains in DOHC and SOHC powerplants, with our level 1.2 cams. The single cam engines are a lot harder to master, since you have to grind in the lobe separation; it took us 13 different grinds to find the proper LS for the level 1.2...yes, I love to experiment, as my pain is your gain. I guess that is a key advantage of having my own dyno!"

This quote was found on a site I know won't show up (H-T). But I'll post the link anyways as you can always add (H-T) to it. Hope you know what site I'm referring to.

http://www..com/showthread.php?t=2217467
"



Hope this helped you out Nate.

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

I spent 2 hours writing that post, only because I was stumped by the specs of the cams thinking they were both meant for a turbo application, lmao. I'll be sure to read more carefully next time, lol.

HULK22

if your going turbo save your money don't bother with cams at this point in your build without good head work port polish valves springs etc you will be surprise how much hp you can gain from it. (on my old setup i pick up 30hp from a good valve job so on my new setup im going full port polish) your cams will make the min hp power because they won't be able to push air and see the gains you want then also when you go turbo your dp should be 3in but no less then 2.5in

as far as trans go you will be fine for now no need to tune unless you have something to fine tune on the dyno when you go i use s300 i love it and when your ready to boost you should get it.

but if your a 100% sure your going turbo dont waste your money on parts to go fast now just to take later this will only keep you from going turbo unless you press in the basement but good luck i hope this was usefull.

Blazin Si

Good info Cocoa. I was going to post more about that, but I'm not familiar with Bisimoto cams.

The valve overlap is a big issue when going FI. N/A motors need high compression to compensate for the air that's lost through the exhaust ports. When someone says they have an all motor build with 13.5:1 compression, they're usually speaking of their calculated compression (if the cylinder were completely sealed when the piston is at the bottom of its stroke). Since big cams and high compression go hand in hand, the overlap causes the dynamic compression ration to be less. Pressurized air from a FI application would escape much faster when using N/A cams.

I forgot about HULK22, since you almost never post. He probably knows a thing or two about turbo set-ups.

Gnate

iTrader: (10)

Wow, thanks a ton you guys, lots of very helpful information here.

Gnate

iTrader: (10)

There was a member on here who said he had the hookup at cccylinder heads out in cali... any of you guys deal with them for headwork?

http://www.cccylinderheads.com/main.html

Something like the "hot street" package should be fine for me


I'm thinking of just buying an extra f engine now with lower miles, would make it easier to send parts off and not have driving down time. Should I stick withe the f22 or go f23?

Gnate

iTrader: (10)

So you'd suggest I stay with an F tranny instead of getting the H one?

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

Stick with the engine that's in your car, unless you're doing an H swap. We had a user try to swap from an f22 to f23 and had a bunch of problems

Gnate

iTrader: (10)

f22b1 it is.

incredulous1

wouldnt there be a lot more troubles w/ vtec when boosting? and would it make more power than a non vtec if both engines have the same turbo set up?

GhettoNinja06

iTrader: (1)

Could always get a vtec controller.

SupraManAG

300whp stay with the F. Def. If you go NA then go with the H22 tranny.

Believe me dont get too serious with your parts especialy your cams. You will be changing and feeling out parts by the time you get to where you wana be.

ethenol

A cam should be the last thing you do.............................................. We use web cam they have done four cams for us and they did an awesome job, they did forget the grind sheet one time I was like WTF!!!!then they sent it to us in the mail.... Good luck

HULK22

i would say yes and change the finial drive. but i started breaking gears shit in my f22 tran alil over 625hp at the track i just switch to the h22 there gears are alot thicker than the f we will see, but i will miss that long forth gear of the f but hey you got to give to get

f22vtec

f tranny has longer gears, better for boost. all motor id get the h def.

good luck man

f22vtec

damn hulk your hp numbers are insane.