BLACKOUTCL

h22 will be here soon and i was going to mod it before the install
i know i'm eventually going turbo AND dual 50/100 NX setup, so i need low compression, so

should i build the bottom end with je/srp pistons and eagle rods with 9.0:1 comp (that would be about 1000) and keep stock head

or

build the head from skunk2 or JUN or JG engineering with turbo cams even though i don't have turbo yet (about 2000)(how would that run without forced induction?)

what would you guys do first?
and why?

thanks in advance

NOMAD

I would build the bottom end first. You'll be able to run much higher compression on your turbo if you bulletproof the botom end. Make sure the block is strengthened, Then rods, pistons (may want to do little less than 9:1 comp) and all the bolts. Balance everything and just start polishing stuff up, intake head, exhaust mani. (when you get it).
Building up the head for N/A won't get you as far as building the bottom right away IMO. Boost capability is determined by your bottom end strength and the seal with the head. You can have a great head but you can kill your pistons and rods and more if the boost goes up too high.

You can always choose to add cams etc. but from what I hear the head does well with boost as long as it's sealed tight and the ignition and timing is set up with care.

I'd take care of the bottom, then concentrate on having a very efficient and safe airflow setup: Manifold, turbo, BOV, wastegate, intake, plumbing, intercooler, exhaust etc. should all work well together. You'll see great gains by taking care of those I think.

Just my .02

CLpower

nomad is on the right track, build the bottom end first.

joeshmoe

I agree.

97Acura3.0CL

agreed, but why je pistons, why not arias pistons, i heard they are a little better than the je pistons

dcsquirm88

Whatever brand of pistons you choose if they are forged you are going to have to sleeve your block. You can't run forged pistons on stock frm sleeves without scoring your head.

I would tell you what I did to my h22 but since it was built for high compression and 100-150 shot of nitrous it wouldn't really help you any.

niedejb

Golden eagle....all the way...my spare F22b1 is there as we speak

BLACKOUTCL

i was told that jdm h22's from 92-94 were iron sleeved
i was told to put a magnet to the block and if it stuck, it was iron sleeved

the master tech at JE told me today that 9:1 would work great with turbo up to 20psi and a 200 shot. over 20psi and never over a 200 shot, i would get 8.5:1 pistons
he said never go over a 200 shot with the h22

thanks for the replies
i guess i'm going to build the block with a deal i found for je and eagle rods for 800 and then run it with stock head

what increase in HP do you think i'll get out of it, even though i'm lowering the compression

niedejb

The HP will increase proportional to your boost level.

Depends on how high youre comfortable with.

BLACKOUTCL

i should have be more clear

i can't afford to boost until 2004, i meant just with the built bottom end and stock head

niedejb

The H22 puts out 165 to the wheels unmodded.

With the lower compression, probably about 150 or so.

dcsquirm88

There really is no point to lower your compression if your not going to boost. If i were you install the stock h22, buy all the parts you need for your turbo project and when you have everything you need in '04 then install it. Till then theres no need to lower your comp. without boost.

BLACKOUTCL

i figured to build the bottom end while the engine was out, because it will be cheaper in the long run and i'll have no down time later on.
maybe i'll boost my N20 from 75 to 150 for now, and build the bottom end

NOMAD

In that case I think you'll be good if you lower the compression and up the NO2. That way you are still taking advantage of the lower comp to get more power from the happy gas instead of rolling around with a great engine and no power.
Be sure you read up on how much to retard the ignition for that amount of NO2. You don't want to scar your bearings or cause any lean conditions by mistake. Which brings me to fuel injectors....
You upgrading the whole FI system? You'll need to with that shot i think. You don't want to max out your injectors and cause a lean condition.

Why don't you go to a bookstore and pick up a book on NO2 Injection? It'll spell out a lot of stuff for you.

BLACKOUTCL

i already have some parts for the h22
for the fuel system, i have an aem fuel rail and aem FPR and i figured my vafc should take care of the rest of the fuel system
i'm looking into RC injectors now, but i don't have a clue about what CC to get. 500?
that should take care of my fuel system
i have some other parts too like dc sports header and some small stuff

i'm ordering the pistons and rods today

to subsidize the low compression for the time being until i can afford to boost, can't i just use a high compression copper head gasket to raise the compression? and then when i turbo i'll take that gasket out?

NOMAD

I'm sure you can put the high comp gasket in with no problem but i'm not sure how much it'll increase it. I'm sure the company that makes it can tell you.

If you want to know the injector size to use (I don't know any websites) go to Barnes and Nobles and pick up the book called "Honda engine performance" or something like that. It's about 3/8 " thick and has a ton of info and formulas in it. Just plug in your variables and figure it out. It's an easy read and will give you Tons of practical info. It has a pic of an H22 engine on the front.

niedejb

You both have it backward. You can only lower the compression with a different (thicker) headgasket.

As far as the injectors size...totally depends on the horsepower goal and what type of engine management/fuel controllers you use.

NOMAD

I believe he was talking about a thinner copper headgasket that ups the comp by a tiny bit. I could be wrong though but i thought they did have ones that are thinner than your typical felpro ones. They are a thin copper (or other metal?) that has slight ring indent around the cylinder and water channels that crushes to create a tight seal that won't warp or blow out.

Am I mistaken that they make thinner ones as well as thicker "stackable" ones?

BLACKOUTCL

that's what i was talking about
except i thought thicker raised the compression
and thinner lowered it

NOMAD

No, I think there may be two types like you say but you have it backwards. If you think of how the cylinder works... Higher compression say, 10:1 squishes the air MORE than lower compression like 8:1. (10:1 compresses the air to 1/10th it's original size, 8:1 only compresses it to 1/8th). So with a fixed cylinder bore (diameter) and same piston head by moving the head CLOSER to the block with a thinner gasket, you make the cylinder head (roof of the chamber) get closer to the Piston head when its at Top Dead Center (TDC). By adding a thicker gasket you essentially move the head (roof of the chamber) farther away from the piston at TDC you lower the compression ration because there is more room in that chamber space now. This method only makes fractional changes in the volume so this item alone may not really show more HP. Couple this with a high performance system though and you can see gains.

BLACKOUTCL

that makes perfect sense
thanks for all the info
maybe i'll take out a loan for 10,000 and build my engine and be in debt for the next 20 years
i tried calling golden eagle and no one answers the phone:WTF?

niedejb

They're too busy trying to figure out what to do with my block.

[confused]"What the hell is this f series thingy? Anyone ever seen one of these?"[/confused]

BLACKOUTCL

LOL
website says they work on f22's

what are having done? sleeved?
how much are they charging you total with shipping?

niedejb

Sleeving, bore/hone to piston size (stock bore size).

Total + shipping....$1035

BLACKOUTCL

i need 2 more jobs for my expensive hobby


i'm jealous