cb4

I know I am going to get biased responses so please don't respond to this thread saying I am going to get a biased response. I will be posting this in the Audi and BMW forums as well.

So I have narrowed my choices down for my next family hauler. I have 2 children 4 and 6. We live in New England. I may need a tow vehicle (~5000lbs) at some point but right now no real need to tow. We ski a lot in the winter. And my other cars are a Honda CRV and a BMW 335xi. This car will be replacing a Honda Odyssey Touring.

I would appreciate any feed back from MDX owners who have experienced each of these (test drive, friends that own, etc).
Here are the challengers:
2009 BMW X5 15-20k miles (Diesel)
2009 Audi Q7 15k-20k miles (Diesel)
2011(new) Acura MDX Technology

My price range is 45-50k. The BMW and Audi are on the high end and the MDX is on the lower end.

Thanks in advance!

honda_nut

imo, since the cars are in the same category, a new mdx is better than an used german car

cb4

why?

ZCL

The biggest issue for me when comparing the MDX to the X5 and Q7 was the third row. I like having the ability to use a third row if it became necessary. (Albeit for smaller passengers)

As far as fit and finish I felt that they were all relatively comparable. I felt the MDX had more affordable tech. Driveability is something you'll have to test for yourself. I felt that the MDX Advance/Ent was sporty enough and handled well enough that I didn't feel I was losing the driving factor compared to the BMW or Audi.

On the subjective side, well I guess it's all subjective, I felt that technology in the Acura was better/more user friendly. I thought the navigation was far more advanced and the rest of the features were impressive. The model I purchased included a crash mitigation system, cooled seats, blind spot warning sensors, etc. I was impressed and did not find myself persuaded by the Germans to go their route.

At this point, 7000 miles, I am happy with the purchase. It's quick enough, handles well enough, and has all the gadgets I could want. (It's missing a few stupid ones like push button start, etc.)

The roof rack is easy to use, as I am sure it is with the x5/q7, for skiing purposes. Interior cargo room was impressive and the quality of the leather in the updated 2010 was a nice improvement.

With all that said, when the time comes to replace it in the future I will certainly re-evaluate the Germans as their offerings were fantastic.

Hopefully that helps a bit. Feel free to ask more questions.

cb4

ZCL - thanks this is good info. Did you test drive the advanced an non-advanced? I am curious about your opinion on the drive difference. I'll need to test drive the advanced for myself. I'm not looking for sports car handling but I do prefer the X5 driving feel over the MDX (not advanced).

Cheers.

honda_nut

why pay either the same amount or more for a comparable used car when you can get a new one? just because they are german doesn't mean that you should pay a lot more for the same type of vehicle.

in the end the decision is up to you

cb4

ZCL - another question. Did you find the MDX third row to be more useful than the Q7 third row. I really like the X5 but the lack of room in the third row is a real let down. I hear the next gen x5 is to be bigger. But I can't wait.

jaxkxx

2008-2009 X5 and Q7 - Plenty electronic and electrical problems

2011 MDX- 99% Trouble free and 100 % better SH-AWD over Germans AWD.

cb4

Good to know about the electrical problems. The MDX AWD Is that much better dry, wet, ice, and snow? BI've heard that the q7 has a nice AWD system. Good to know the MDX is way better.

jaxkxx

I hope this will explain your questions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJZxV...eature=related

jaxkxx

One of my best friends had a 2010 Q7 and it was returned via the Lemon Law. He had countless problems with it, one being that all of the lighting inside the vehicle, including instrumentation, would go out. On this particular case, the dealer explained that his kids must have spilled juice in the centerconsole (which didn't happen). I followed his whole experience and it was seriously a joke. Cruising the Audi boards will show that this experience is not out of the ordinary.

So from my perspective (as a happy owner of an MDX with 75K miles):

cb4

Cool video. Do you know what the source is? That drive of the Q7 didn't look like they new what they were doing.

jaxkxx

YouTube. Just buy brand new MDX and dont look back

cb4

Anyone can post to YouTube. What I meant was where was the material sourced from? Are we sure the right traction system was engaged on all of the vehicles? Like I said its clear that the Audi driver was not trying here. I am not disputing your claim that the Acura has a greater system but this video does nothing to prove it. To me anyway.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

AWESOME video, but i just want to know one thing mainly though, where the tires all the same model/brand? (or at least the same category of tires; ie: summer, all seasons, or a winter tire?) cause that can make a major difference in how well you can get up a steep hill


another thing is WHY did they cut away from the original view for the MDX

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

even this shows, the type of tires they actually had to use, to accomplish "said" feat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObdPV...eature=related


and idk if they just used the cable as a safety (and a retrieval tool) or to actually yank the car up the hill


or this one for a better view of said tires, and how narrow they actually where
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvNAb...eature=related








basically what i am saying is that any AWD system will basically get you where you want to go, with a decent set of tires on it


as far as vehicle choice, i say MDX, not only for being new, but also better resale (due to better reliability) (minus the new car value depreciation of course though)

ntwillie1

I have a 2008 MDX purchased new and have been completely happy with it. No issues to report in 2.5 years and almost 60,000 miles. I have never owned an X5 or a Q7 but for what its worth my brother in law works for BMW NA and I have family members that have Audi's and they both have experienced electrical issues at one time or another with their german vehicles.

As far as resale, no question about it. Put it this way - I had a Mercedes for 1 year and I felt it was underpowered and smaller than I liked so I sold it. Exactly 11 months after purchasing it it had depreciated over $8000. In 2009,when I purchased my Mercedes I sold my 2001 Honda Accord with 97,000 miles on it and lots of hale damage for $6000.

Just trying to put things in perspective. To me resale is important. I never lease cause i always go over on the miles. Anyway, hope that helps.

cb4

To me resale is always an important factor and I do agree that the BMW and Audi do tend to takes huge hits the first year. I am seeing 8-10k drops in the first year. Thats the primary reason I am probably not going to buy a new X5 or Q7. But after that first year the X5 holds its own. The Audi is probably last here.

The MDX barely moves after the first year. Its not even economical for me to consider a 1 year old MDX. The new one is pretty much the same price.

I'm going to bed now. Thanks to all for the great feedback. So for those that are curious, here is where I sit...my heart says X5, my brain says Acura, and my wife says Audi.

Cheers!

Type34

When guys ask this question, it's hard to tell what exactly your tastes are what you're truly look for in a vehicle. So I equate them to women. My subjective point of view, based on being the "car guy" of the family and having first hand knowledge of your listed vehicles, is as follows:

• Hot blonde, all the right curves, high maintenance, but she's worth it. May leave you down the line (X5)
• Beautiful brunette, long legs, seductive. 6 months into it you realize she's a lousy cook and is not as beautiful without her makeup on. Odds are you'll leave her down the line (A7)
• Attractive sandy blonde, nice bod, great personality. She would rather see a movie than go clubbing. She won't stand out at a party like the hot blonde, but she's still a tiger in the sack when you get home. She's a keeper. (MDX)

In case you still need a nod, I hesitate to recommend non-enthusiast references like Consumer Reports, but CR at least offers an objective review based on facts/stats: Consumer Reports (CR recommends the MDX and RX350 among luxury SUVs)

dzionny_dzionassi

your wife says audi? wow. If my wife would say to me buy audi, i would divorce her. Now whats up with german cars??? Do you know that audi Q7 is number one car, returned from lease before lease it expires? And i mean all cars, suv's, sedans... And you know why? Because it have alot problems. I came to USA 6 years ago. First thing i understood about cars is:
German cars in usa suck, dont know why, but cars here, have much more mechanical, electrical problems than in europe. Now about BMW, better than audi for sure, but still have much more problems than acura. BMW is drivers car, but still, what car is worth when you have to deal with all kind glitches. MY friend has acura mdx 2010 with 60k with 0 problems (15k i put by my self while he was gone to europe),sh-awd is number one, best traction snow,rain. I am about to buy one too. Right now i have 2007 TL-S 65k
Still i dont understand how you dare to compare used audi or bmw to new acura? It is just sad.

cb4

Just like you trust your personal experiences to make your decisions I trust mine. I've been driving BMWs for 13 years and the experience and reliability has been great. I've also had my share of Hondas. Great too. Honestly if money were no factor I'd be buying the Merc GL370. But it is a factor. I personally like the feel of German cars and so am considering them and as I said before buying a year old BMW or Audi is a better financial decision due to the huge first year in depreciation

So yes I dare to compare these and I'm glad you find it sad.

ZCL

You're not helping out here. The point of this guy's thread is to get useful information. There is nothing "sad" about his cross shopping. There are lots of options outside of Acura and there is no reason not to make a good decision with lots of information.

As far as the third row question, yes I found the acura third row to be a little more useful. Remember that the third row in the acura or audi is not intended for adults.

cb4

Thanks ZCL. We would use the third row for the 2 boys (4 and 6) when the grandparents are riding along or when we have the need to transport other adults. In your opinion does the third row do a decent job of safely seating 2 young boys in each of these vehicles? I am going to the dealerships today to give them a go. I am guessing that the X5 third row will not suffice. I'll report back.

Thanks again!

cb4

My wife thought this was hilarious.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

and YES german vehicles are very hard to beat for the feel/driving experience, but i personally would not want to have to pay for their upkeep/repairs though (alot of parts are at least twice the $ as a part for like an Acura; let alone it takes more time generally to replace the same part, so it runs the labor bill up real fast) (ie: brake work- rotors are standard replacement items when doing a brakejob on a german car, where on the Acura, unless they are warped or something, normally you can get at least one machining out of them, let alone when you do look at prices for rotors, the Acura ones you will probably be looking at roughly $100, where with the german vehicles, you are probably easily looking at $200 per rotor; let alone the brake pads also being more expensive too for the German vehicles)

and that is not even considering them being more reliably or not, but just to replace s very similar part, and the cost associated with it

Hodog16

That video is a year or so old. I don't remember the exact details, but I believe Acura sponsored the comparison.

One of my friends was in the same boat a couple of years ago. Compared used X5, Q7, and new 2009 MDX sport. Ended up getting a used Q7 over the internet sight unseen. As far as I know it hasn't given him any problems. He did like the MDX, but since his wife has a TL, he didn't want two Acuras. That and he's really into German cars.

cb4

I test drove a 2011 MDX Technology and a 2011 Q7 premium plus (base engine, no TDI available) today.

MDX
I brought the kids along and had them sit in the 3rd row. Not a bad fit bit my 6 year old did complain about his feet not having much room. But definitely functional for short trips. The second row had plenty of room even with the driver seat set to my comfort (I'm 6'3") Seats were comfy and good bolsters.

Plastic pieces a little cheap compared to the Audi. Not a big fan of the main gauge cluster. Kinda ugly but highly functional. I really like the technology on board. The camera is great and the Nav control is seamless.

The drive: I was impressed. The steering was a little light but definitely direct. Loved the engine. This girl is quick! Loved the suspension, easy over the bumps, and inspires confidence in the corners. I wasn't expecting this drive. A+

Disappointments were few:
- Some cheap plastic on the dash and doors
- would have preferred 40/20/40 split seats for skis.

Q7
Fantastic interior. I don't think I would change anything here. The seating was more flexible 40/20/40 split seats and the second row were adjustable. I'd say overall interior room was about the same as the MDX. No complaints from the boys regarding the 3rd row. The Technology integration was complicated. I found the navigation and system controls very confusing. Probably could get used to it.

The drive: Big. This vehicle feels huge! Both in the way it drives and in the way it feels. The Q7 was slow. The MDX "felt" so much quicker. I told my wife that I punched it a few times after the drive was over and she didn't believe me. I guess you can call that smoother, but too me it just felt slow. I would definitely not be happy with the base engine and I don't think I would be happy with the big engine either. It wasn't just strait line speed that disappointed me, the Q7 was definitely not confidence inspiring under breaking or in the bends. .

To sum it up: I was expecting more from the Audi. I was expecting less from the MDX. I prefer the MDX over the Audi and that's even if they were the same cost. I ran out of time today so wasn't able to test the X5. Tomorrow after the X5 test drive I should be able to make a decision.

Thanks to all for the help so far!

jaxkxx

Your another option is 2011 VW Touearg TDI. They go for around $50k. Sweet looking machine.

Type34

I aim to please

Great write-up so far...looking forward to your X5 review...

Boraxo

I love my BMW 3-series (as I'm sure you do) but the BMW SUVs are made in USA and have quality / reliability issues. My brother had his tranny replaced within the extended warranty period as well as a host of other repairs. Also would never buy a used BMW unless you find an owner who did additional maintenance as the "BMW included" maintenance is grossly inadequate for long term owners (the BMW car club enthusiasts readily admit to this fact and even have developed their own maintenance schedule).

So in sum I would recommend MDX unless driving experience, i.e. handling, is your primary factor and you plan to dump the BMW after a few years. Can't comment on Infiniti.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

you know that all it is, is basically a VW skinned Audi Q7

you know they are GM transmissions in them.... (at least i know the 2003's did; idk about the newer ones though)

Boraxo

Did not know that, explains a lot. I think my bro has a 2003, too!

Was trying to edit above to add:

I find Acura drives well and compares well with BMW. Obviously nothing is going to beat the handling of the patented BMW system but Acura does pretty well and has good acceleration. The third row is fine for schlepping kids around town (we've even put adults back there) but probably not great for a long trip. Then again kids these days don't know how lucky they have it, in the old days you would just shove a few in back of the station wagon, they'd lie across the back, on the floor etc. We had facing seats in a Ford wagon that were much worse.

BMW holds value well, but Acura MDX is amazing. We reached the same conclusion, it doesn't make sense to get 1-2 year old used if you can get incentives and a deal on a new one, not to mention better financing rates. Particularly if you plan to keep for many years as we will - get the config and color you like.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

and another good part is that in order to get the AWD system, they put in a single speed transfer case, which happens to be a NEW PROCESS one iirc, which also basically supplies all the domestic manufactures with their transfer cases

cb4

I test drove the the following today: 2011 X5d, 2011 X5 35i, MDX Advanced. Yesterday I test drove the MDX Technology and the 2011 Audi Q7 Premium Plus. Here is my take...

MDX
Nice interior overall but does not quite match the fit and finish of the other two. Some cheesy plastic and an ugly gauge cluster. Very functional and I love the Nav,Audio system, backup camera, etc. Of the three this has the best easiest to use technology. I thought the third row was a little bigger than the X5 however the MDX did not allow for the second row to adjust forward and back. The MDX did not have 40/20/40 split folding with a ski bag like the X5. This could be a big issue for me. I know I can always use the rack, but there are many times where I just want to throw the skis in the truck and off to the mountain.

This little SUV is quick. At 4600lbs this is the lightest of the bunch and it feels it. Very agile, quick, and fun. The engine is very responsive if a bit annoying to listen to. Especially in the higher rev band.

I preferred the more affordable Tech suspension over the advanced electronic adaptable suspension. The 19 inch wheels and "sportier" suspension offered in the Advanced made the ride too harsh (even with comfort enabled) and was not worth the added stability in the corners.

Q7
Very nice interior. Fit and finish equal to the X5. Complicated Media and Nav. I preferred the X5 and MDX media and nav system. Very flexible interior space. I liked the 40/20/40 split seats (no ski bag however). The 3rd row was a little roomier than the other two.

Under powered and far from athletic. That's how I would sum up the ride. Not a lot of positives to take away from the test drive other than to say it does soak up the bumps in the road very well. I immediately knew when I got done with the test drive that this car was not for us. Moving on...

X5
I had a lot of expectations going into this test drive. I am a BMW enthusiast and have been so for a while. I have a certain expectation as to what a BMW will feel like before I even get in one.

The interior was right up my alley. Simple and driver oriented. Love the main gauge cluster. Of course it looks like the 335 so I am used to it. People say how much they like the Audi interiors. I for one agree. But I still prefer the BMW interior styling. This X5 just matches my style in every way. The third row seats were pretty small, but I expected worse. Especially after all of the reading I have done. But these were pretty much on par with the MDX and Q. For my needs they work perfect. No an adult does not fit, but my kids aren't adults so I don't care.

I drove the X5 35i first. The ride was perfect, for us anyway. Its just what I expected and I was not let down. The RFTs did not show there colors like they did on my 335. The engine is so silky. Power when you need it without all of the fuss that the MDX and Q made. Steering was heavy, but I like that. The X5 does not feel as agile as the MDX but its sooo planted. After I finished the drive I knew this one was the one for us...but i soon rememberd that this powerplant does have some issues. More later.

The X5D was not quite as silky. Plenty quick with a little of low end lag and some serious grunt. I preferred the 35i silkiness but still liked the Diesel. It was cold today and the X5d was not warmed up before we took it out. After 15 minutes of test driving the idle noise quieted down to a reasonable level. But at first it sounded like an F350. It lacked the "refinement" of the first X5 we drove...maybe a lot of the refinement.

To sum it up
So here we are. The X5 is the clear winner in my mind. The MDX is no slouch. The Q7 is a tremendous slouch. So now its between the X5D and the X5 35i.

The HPFP saga
The X5 35i is a problem for me because it has the N55 engine. All of the reading I have done on this board and the Nightline debacle has mind f#@*&ed me. This car will be our long hauler primarily for the winter months into the mountains and I can't be having the fuel pump fail during our climb through the White Mountains some cold snowy night. I did ask the salesman about the HPFP issue and he said "That was a hiccup, thats all been worked out". I left it at that. And that is why the Diesel may be parked in our garage very soon. If we can't get a decent price for the X5 we are likely to go for the MDX. We will know for sure within the next couple of days.

Thanks for getting this far and can't wait for the feedback.

Cheers!

rajeev6

My 2 cents - Just traded in my 2009 MDX for 2011 MDX Tech. Love the handling - better than even a car on corners!
Q7 was not even a choice - looks too big to be reliably stable. X5 definitely attracted me but didn't have enough room.
Few things I had in mind -
1. MDX is lighter and more agile.
2. The SH-AWD - my wife doesn't have to push any switch. (Big problem in one of our previous SUVs which started slipping back and she didn't remember to push the switch).
3. Hip Room - actual seating space - 2 to 4 inches more than others. Counts more in 2nd row - MDX can comfortably seat 3 adults.
4. MDX is selling for invoice price - you just have to find the right dealer. On top of that, there's 1.9% financing for 60 months. Compared to 4.5% financing from my credit union, it saved me additional 2.5k. (At this price point, over 60 months, each 1% reduction in interest will save around a grand.)

cb4

Local dealer here in Boston had the MDX Tech for Invoice - 500 here for the presidents day sale. You can't beat the pricing on these. .9% financing for 3 years and less than invoice (42k for the tech Wow!). I'd have this baby in my garage right now if I didn't get the brilliant idea of going over the BMW dealer to give the X5 a spin

jaxkxx

What was the MSRP on X5 3.5i ?

M3EP

I had about the same dilemma. Only wanted to buy 2011 x5 35d Drive.I've had Bimmers (E46 M3 then E90 335i) for 8 years. Loved the performance ,but hated issues with them (both cars were purchased new,but do I have stories to tell ) . It took me 3 months of cross shopping and I ended up with 2010 MDX W/TECH I am not fan of the Corporate Grill so I had it painted to the body color.Of course MDX lacks some features that I use to in BMWs like keyless entry and rain sensing wipers (even Mazda CX9 has it ) ,but it drives very close to X5 35I DRIVE with SPORT and was great in the snow. (Drove it to the Taos Ski Valley where many cars weren’t able to get ) .The seats are on par with X5 Sport pkg ,but leather is much better. Acura has incredible ELS sound and Bluetouth works much better also. It is also has more cargo room . I paid 42.5k for mine ,so price wasn’t even to compare. Same equipped X5 35D would be 58k after all the discounts and I tried my best

cb4

I haven't had the issues with prior BMWs but I hear you on the total cost of ownership. The MDX has an amazing value per dollar prop. The X5D MSRP is 62k (reasonably equipped). I got them down to 54500 with incentives. Working on the trade in now.

M3EP

X5 35D $4500 is given , so called Eco Credit , They normally give another 2k ,Anything more is like pulling teeth. Back to my Bimmers .On M3 I had 3 engines replaced and 335I wasn't walk in the park either..In latest comparison from Car and Driver:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
MDX edged with X5 35I on performance being only non turbo (meaning more reliable)