Edward'TLS

With the demise of the RLX, it is time to increase the size of the TLX sedan. The TLX should have been adopted the size of the 4G TL, rather than the smallish TSX size.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Correction - the car-buying public cancelled the RLX long before Honda decided to. I honestly had no idea they still made them.

biker

Who is looking for a an even bigger sedan? Avalon sales seem to have fallen even more than sedans in general. The Accord 110" wheel base is plenty big, it's just a matter how they design the interior to make it feel big.

oonowindoo

to save face... they cannot admit the failure so quickly... It is embarrassing for a "tier 1" luxury brand's flagship cars to sell so poorly.

I mean why would anyone wanna spend $50/60k on a glorified Accord.

Edward'TLS

No one is looking for a Avalon-sized sedan. It is the 4G-TL-size/current-Accord size that buyers are still sought after.

The current TLX is simply too small in size to cut it for the "luxury" or near-luxury Acura (premium Honda) brand.

For Audi, there is the A6 sedan. For BMW, there is the A5. For MB, there is the E-class. But there is nothing for Acura in terms of physical size, after the poor-selling, overpriced RLX is now dead.

Again and again. This has always been the Acura problem. There is no viable choice in the Acura sedan lineup for Acura small sedan owners to move up to, when they want to upgrade to a bigger and more expensive Acura sedan. Even though the RLX is not competitive, at least a handful of loyal Acura sedan owners have the option to choose a more upscale Acura sedan and stay with the brand.

oonowindoo

Considering how much the new TLX will cost... we dont know yet but we can kinda guess. Anything bigger and expensive will meet the same fate as RLX.
So if Acura wants to, they could make the next ILX slightly bigger... and stretch the TLX .... but TLX is already done.... so that aint gonna happen. regardless what the actual size is, TLX is not the name to go up against 5 series or E class.... it can barely go up against C class and M340i...

Costco

Just look at the trends even before the GS and RLX were discontinued. Sedans do not sell as well, period.

Meanwhile every single brand is making SUVs/crossovers, even Rolls Royce and Aston Martin. Higher volume brands now are making all sorts of variants of their SUVs... smaller versions, bigger models, "coupe" bodystyles.

I noticed this in a thread about Mercedes somewhere - if you go to their vehicle lineup, the first thing you see are SUVs. They have eight different models, actually.

oonowindoo

I think there is a misconception.... while the SUV/CUV market is definitely expanding.. no doubt. 2 of the 3 cars we have are CUV/SUV.
and the sedan market is shrinking as well, that is a fact.

But the demand for cars (sedan/coupe) is just as big as SUVs. or at least big enough that the manuf still should invest and if they have a good product, they will get the return they are looking for.

For example, Accord was still selling 30k a month (before all shit going on right now)... i am not even counting its competitors.
5 series is still at 5k a month market from 2017-2019. That is with all the 5GT, 6GT 6GC, 4GC stealing its sales.

Failure of GS and RLX is only partially due to the market. I would say majority of the blame should be on the manuf. themselves.
ES is just as big and luxurious as GS, so what is the point of GS that is so outdated that even the entry level cars have better tech.
RLX.. well that is self-explanatory.

Using Honda as an Example, the car and truck sales in 2019 was almost a split.

Costco

No debate because I agree with you mostly, especially on the overlap part with the ES growing in size over the years. Seems like the luxury market is different though, because for Acura anyway the difference is nearly 3x for cars vs trucks. We all had a feeling or knowledge that the RLX was hanging by a thread for years, and it's not helping those sales numbers.

I think for the GS, another reason is the rise of the A6 in the '00s through today. Crowded segment competing with the 5-series and the E-Class. The big 3 German brands have strong brand cachet and their sedans have been disproportionately good sellers for years when you consider their pricing.

MSZ

The German trio can stay alive as long as the Chinese continue to buy their cars. I read that from February to April Mercedes have sold the average of 13k E Classes a month in China, even during the height of the lockdown. This is unbelievable.

oonowindoo

Yah, Acura is a bad example on cars... pretty much all the cars they had introduced after 3G TL have failed. TLX is better but still nowhere where it needs to be or could have been.
ILX TLX and RLX... vs RDX and MDX.... put the sedan vs. SUV comparison aside. If we just look at them as cars, i would still take RDX or MDX.

oonowindoo

Everyone wants finer things like life..

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

This may all change when the coronavirus lock down has taken a heavy toll on the disposable income for most future vehicle buyers.

oonowindoo

To certain extend yes... but if you are in a market for a $60k - $100k car, chances are you are not affected that much.
i mean if we start seeing that the top 5% earners in the US losing the ability to buy the car they want, buying a car is probably least of our worries by then.

SSFTSX

German trio only alive untill French, Italian and Russian keep supplying them with Software, Electronics, and Materials to Germans. Those countries are shifting there labor and priorities in very different direction..
The days of sellling unreliable junk at subsidized rates that takes too much engineering resources from other part of economy are coming to an end.

Road is open for Acura TLX to succeed. it is designed from ground up for NA market with local parts that make it very sustainable.

oonowindoo

you know... i sometimes really wonder if you are actually criticizing Acura in your own way...