We just got our shipment of TAKEDA intakes!!!

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Old Aug 20, 2009 | 10:03 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by prepreludesh
I agree with you Bleu. It has been proven recently that modern cars' ECU's are made to constantly learn. The intake and exhaust sensors will begin to compensate for any variable that it notices over a period of time. The explanations get technical after that and I could explain it, but just know that I agree with you. I believe that bolt-ons might not always produce the same power in the long run unless the ECU is reprogrammed with a permanent fixed tune. That is just my $.02 though.
So are you saying that any advantages that the intake produces will be cancelled out in the long run if the ECU isn't changed or reprogrammed?
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Old Aug 20, 2009 | 11:08 AM
  #82  
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Ummm, anyone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that this filter is the washable kind that needs no oil. I believe a good soaking in a mild detergent followed by a run through the faucet should be enough.

But something to take away about cleaning them (from the way K&N tells you to do) is to only run the faucet from the inside, out. This way it dislodges particles of dirt from the filter element and carries them away. If you run the faucet over the filter element from the outside, it might trap the dirt in place and then it would dry there.

Just my $.02
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Old Aug 20, 2009 | 11:36 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by PetesTL
So are you saying that any advantages that the intake produces will be cancelled out in the long run if the ECU isn't changed or reprogrammed?
Alright, I'm going to go out on a limb here and recite everything the best I can from memory...

I saw an episode of Horsepower TV (on Spike TV) where they were talking about modern day electronics. They had said the facts were there to prove that a car might not retain all of its horsepower gains after an aftermarket piece is installed and drove around for a couple of days.

The reason that magazines and other advertisements do a dyno test immediately after installing an aftermarket performance piece is because of this process:

(example: air intake)

1. The engine's computer has been reading relatively the same data information from its sensors since the life of the car. It has been running on fuel maps and timing maps based on the intake sensors (which are air temperature and mass-air flow sensor) telling it the same data depending on the RPM the engine is at. The only variable the computer will see is air temperature, which actually, won't increase or decrease any significant amount to necessitate the engine computer to change timing or fuel injector pulsewidth. Also, the O2 sensors in the exhaust system are showing more or less the same readouts because if intake variables are not changing, exhaust variables won't either.

2. But now you've added in an aftermarket intake. This intake has a smoother tract on the inside as well as a larger surface area intake element (cone filter) and has less bends and twists for the air to have to be sucked through. As a result, the engine will now inhale more air, faster.

3. The engine computer (ECU), which learns based on repetetive actions, should initially compensate for the Mass Air-Flow sensor indicating increase in air flow by increasing injector pulsewidth. I'm talking it would be a VERY minimal amount, but alas, more fuel + more air = more power. Heck, it might even change a timing map based on the fact it sees more air and more fuel being ingested. This could also bump up power.

4. More power is shown gained on a dynometer during the computers relearning of why the MAF is reading higher amounts of air ingested at a set RPM.

5. As the car begins to drive around town over the period of a couple of days, the ECU will notice that this increase in air seems to be normal across the board for whatever RPM and amount of load on the engine it sees.

6. After the ECU sees that this variable has been permanently altered, yet just as predictable as the engine was stock, it will begin trimming down on fuel injected in (taking out one key element to increased power) and might switch to a less aggressive timing map. If the knock sensor does not see any faults and if the O2 sensor sees an acceptable Air Fuel Ratio, it will reset the parameters

7. If the parameters are reset for these changes, you will lose probably all of the power you gained.

I hope I made that clear, but all is not lost, here are some exceptions or points of interest.

1. If you reset the ECU (simply by removing the fuse for the ECU for 15-60 seconds) or if you disconnect the negative battery cable for 15-60 seconds, then the ECU will default onto the original stored fuel and timing maps that the car came with. During this time, you should earn back all your lost HP for that time being.

2. If you're not in to resetting the ECU every few days, be happy with the fact that you will probably increase throttle response a little bit. I say a little bit because the TL has an electronic throttle body, which means that the ECU is judging by how far your foot is on the throttle pedal, is how much it's going to open the throttle plate up. Modern day cars are all fitted with this E-Throttle it seems, because it increases fuel mileage and increases lifespan of the engine. I will explain why if anyone wants to know.
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Old Aug 20, 2009 | 01:00 PM
  #84  
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The Takeda filter uses NO oil and is completely washable.

But I have to completely disagree with losing all the gains had by aftermarket parts. Plain and simple, I have been modifying cars for awhile now as well as many friends. They race their cars at the track and do 1/4 mile runs. Their cars are daily drivers and see plenty of miles. Yet, the car is faster down the strip and around the track than when stock. Hard to deny that.
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Old Aug 21, 2009 | 02:40 AM
  #85  
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I'm not saying that aftermarket parts aren't going to give anybody a horsepower increase, but I was arguing in favor of the belief that modern day cars with their extremely advanced ECU's (like Japanese and European Cars) are becoming more and more resistant to an aftermarket parts for the reasons I said.

I must ask you about your friends who take their cars to the track. You did not describe them but I want to know if they are purpose built track cars with aftermarket ECU's or other forms of engine electronics (fuel injector controlers, etc). I assume most cars that are tracked have the money sunk into them to get these aftermarket ECU's. Even my Prelude has one (Hondata S300).

The point I was trying to make is that an aftermarket ECU will not "learn" new fuel maps autonomously. It requires the person programming it to read all the data and continuously tinker with the settings in order to obtain the maximum power out of every single RPM. Then it will be set until the programmer programs something different.
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Old Aug 21, 2009 | 08:07 AM
  #86  
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Nope, all cars are stock ECUs and the cars have bolt-ons including forced induction on some. It doesn't make sense that the ECU would resist an aftermarket part anymore than it would resist a stock part. The modern day ECUs are made to learn as you said. If it sees a better intake flow and exhaust flow, it has the ability to adjust timing/fuel/trimmings everything to make use of that. As you said, the sensors are reading things and learning. If it sees more air, why would it resist it? It will add more fuel to compensate. How will it go back to make the same stock power? If it actually removes the fuel it was adding for the increased air, it will lean out too much. You will have to provide me some technical articles to explain this theory.
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Old Aug 21, 2009 | 08:51 AM
  #87  
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I'd like to start out with the fact that I don't deny for a minute the greatness of the Takeda intake for this car. I've never seen one in person, but based on the pictures, reputation of the company and the build quality that is reported, this company is among the best. In fact, when I get my TL within the next year, there's no doubt I'll be purchasing one as well, because the modification bug runs deep in me, haha.

As for running lean, that's a relative term that I think leads to many rumors and falsities. Your car won't run lean enough to do damage to the engine if the computer learns to adjust the settings back to normal. We're talking a change of Air/Fuel ratio of maybe .2 at worst.

But this is all relative as I write this. The simple fact is, the only way I could prove what I wrote or you could prove what you wrote is if Takeda's test TL was put back on the rollers as soon as conditions existed that mimiced the conditions the car ran at when the first horsepower gains were recorded and found to produce 14 whp more. That is roughly the same air temperature, same engine temperature, same humidity and same barometric pressure. Also, the same gas should be used (which shouldn't be a problem) and the oil change should be roughly at the same intervals as the first run.

Then and only then would it be possible to see if the cars horsepower has stayed the same or leveled back off to stock power levels. But I doubt this will ever happen.

A personal story of mine just to go back to the air/fuel ratio thing... my H22A4 with Jackson Racing Supercharger, runs A/F ratios of ~16:1 during normal highway steady driving. This would be considered way too lean in normal cases and if it was this A/F ratio at full throttle and full engine load, it would probably damage the engine. However, all factory ECU's are tuned to literally dump fuel into the engine when given full gas, to reduce any chance of the engine being harmed. In fact, a stock Subaru WRX STI can have an A/F ratio of 10.6:1 at WOT and a stock Honda Civic Si sees almost the same numbers as well. So any way of leaning them out would cause more of a power increase, because at that point, you are almost drowning the spark in fuel!

Anyway, I have alot of experience in A/F ratio on my car and I would love to see the A/F ratio charts that happened when the Takeda intake was installed versus stock on their dyno day they had. It would prove an invaluable source of info for our discussion!
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Old Aug 21, 2009 | 08:53 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
Nope, all cars are stock ECUs and the cars have bolt-ons including forced induction on some. It doesn't make sense that the ECU would resist an aftermarket part anymore than it would resist a stock part. The modern day ECUs are made to learn as you said. If it sees a better intake flow and exhaust flow, it has the ability to adjust timing/fuel/trimmings everything to make use of that. As you said, the sensors are reading things and learning. If it sees more air, why would it resist it? It will add more fuel to compensate. How will it go back to make the same stock power? If it actually removes the fuel it was adding for the increased air, it will lean out too much. You will have to provide me some technical articles to explain this theory.
I agree with you. I have a 06 Mazda Miata, and have Mazdaspeed CAI. Why would Mazda offer this as an accessory if all its gonna do is run the same? I have had it on for a year and the car still runs like it did when i first put it on. The car revs much more freely then before.
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Old Aug 21, 2009 | 09:07 AM
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Yup, Honda/Acura likes to run their cars really rich. I don't deny that. And I don't deny that the ECU will not adjust. I just don't get the whole "adjust back to factory settings" because whether the ECU likes it or not, when you add intake/exhaust the characteristics are changed. If you go back and look at 3G TL guys who ran their car at the 1/4 mile with stock ECU but bolt-ons, how did their times keep getting better?
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Old Aug 21, 2009 | 10:50 AM
  #90  
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More airflow = more HP

All, my original question related to actual gains after drive cycle time. No question in my mind that the intake allows more max airflow, therefore more hp at WOT. But really, how much after the ECU learns the new setup? That's the dyno I'd like to see.

I put a CP-E intake on my RDX and noted an immediate difference, but then part of the install involved unplugging the ECU. Even after drive cycles, I still noticed better response and driveability, which was worth it to me. I later had a Hondata reflash that further enhanced my driving experience. That baby just hauled.

I'm like prepreludesh - I can see one of these Takeda units under my hood!
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Old Aug 21, 2009 | 02:20 PM
  #91  
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Really close to ordering one of these. If I understand correctly, simply choose the intake for the 3.5; but, state that you have the 3.7 SH-AWD upon checkout?
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Old Aug 21, 2009 | 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
Yup, Honda/Acura likes to run their cars really rich. I don't deny that. And I don't deny that the ECU will not adjust. I just don't get the whole "adjust back to factory settings" because whether the ECU likes it or not, when you add intake/exhaust the characteristics are changed. If you go back and look at 3G TL guys who ran their car at the 1/4 mile with stock ECU but bolt-ons, how did their times keep getting better?
The 3G was said to have one of the most PITA ECU's for adjusting ANYTHING, or tuning....

I added bolt on, after bolt on, after bolt on...

Stock Dyno = 239whp

Fully Bolted Dyno = 294whp

I never ran the car at the track, but rest assured, an increase of 50+ whp is a VERY noticeable... The car was my daily driver, it was a 2008 with 34k miles on it, and it ran like a champ

I never did one single thing to the ECU, (aside from resetting it after i added a mod)....

The ECU's in these modern acura's are designed to automatically adjust (like stated above)... so if you use a piggyback ECU tune, the stock ECU will override those settings....

However, like Jeremy (CleanCL) said, they adjust to their enivornment... add an intake and exhaust to increase air flow the ECU will add Fuel to compensate



Jeremy- When can i see your ride man? I want to hear it
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Old Aug 21, 2009 | 02:50 PM
  #93  
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wow, you got 50hp from bolt ons? That's fantastic for a Honda/Acura!
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Old Aug 21, 2009 | 11:24 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by BLACKURA_NY
The 3G was said to have one of the most PITA ECU's for adjusting ANYTHING, or tuning....

I added bolt on, after bolt on, after bolt on...

Stock Dyno = 239whp

Fully Bolted Dyno = 294whp

I never ran the car at the track, but rest assured, an increase of 50+ whp is a VERY noticeable... The car was my daily driver, it was a 2008 with 34k miles on it, and it ran like a champ

I never did one single thing to the ECU, (aside from resetting it after i added a mod)....

The ECU's in these modern acura's are designed to automatically adjust (like stated above)... so if you use a piggyback ECU tune, the stock ECU will override those settings....

However, like Jeremy (CleanCL) said, they adjust to their enivornment... add an intake and exhaust to increase air flow the ECU will add Fuel to compensate



Jeremy- When can i see your ride man? I want to hear it
Soon enough... I have a few things to finish up. I'll be lowering it in about week up at Josh's shop. As well as hopefully a few other tricks up my sleeve.
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Old Aug 22, 2009 | 03:49 AM
  #95  
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no need to keep secrets on here, let us know what you're up to!
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Old Aug 22, 2009 | 12:13 PM
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It's not really a secret, I'm just not sure if it's going to happen or not. I have posted about it on Buckvegas Headlight thread.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 08:55 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by hdcolumbus
Really close to ordering one of these. If I understand correctly, simply choose the intake for the 3.5; but, state that you have the 3.7 SH-AWD upon checkout?
did you ever get an answer on this? i'm ready to order..
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 08:57 AM
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From what Takeda told me, I think they will just supply the parts for both cars in the same kit from now on, so it shouldn't matter.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 10:17 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
From what Takeda told me, I think they will just supply the parts for both cars in the same kit from now on, so it shouldn't matter.

cool thanks...did you order yours yet? HOpefully it's not too difficult of an install.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 10:58 AM
  #100  
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I was the tester.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 05:28 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by prepreludesh
wow, you got 50hp from bolt ons? That's fantastic for a Honda/Acura!
Yup... over 50... probably closer to 60... I used to same dyno everytime, but similar run conditions

I pulled 294 BEFORE i added the ATLP Hi Flow Cat, so theres a good chance i could have pulled 300whp... this was a dynojet, so it did read a tad high


AEM Cold air Intake
P2R TB Spacer
OE IM Gaskerts
UR Ultra SC Pulley
RV6 Pre-Cats
ATLP J-Pipe
ATLP Quad Exhaust
ATLP Hi Flow Cat
Innovative Engine Mount
Coolant Bypass Mod

Biggest gains came with RV6 precats.... gained around 20whp, and i think 14 wtq... the dyno sheets are somewhere in the 3G section


I am interested in the Takeda intake, but think i might hold off until a company makes a CAI
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Old Sep 2, 2009 | 11:58 PM
  #102  
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Just received my Takeda Air Intake System and finish installing it, Extremely happy with the result... Awesome power, great sound and a beautiful look under the hood... It took me about an hour and a half to install (took my time) and founded it very easy with the steps that comes with... Will suggest to everyone get one if they into perfomance
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Old Sep 3, 2009 | 06:47 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by leony718
Just received my Takeda Air Intake System and finish installing it, Extremely happy with the result... Awesome power, great sound and a beautiful look under the hood... It took me about an hour and a half to install (took my time) and founded it very easy with the steps that comes with... Will suggest to everyone get one if they into perfomance
FWD or AWD?
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Old Sep 4, 2009 | 12:36 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by thurley42
FWD or AWD?

Its Fwd... Just got it in the highway today and I stepped on it and it just want to fly...lol Sounds great and at normal driving its hardly noticeable...
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Old Sep 4, 2009 | 02:02 AM
  #105  
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sooo many people are getting this.. I really want an intake, but am curious if i should hold off for an AEM CAI or the Comptech Icebox....

I think me and CleanCL should race this way we'll know if the power gains are really there
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Old Sep 4, 2009 | 02:56 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by BLACKURA_NY
sooo many people are getting this.. I really want an intake, but am curious if i should hold off for an AEM CAI or the Comptech Icebox....

I think me and CleanCL should race this way we'll know if the power gains are really there
do it! lol
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Old Sep 4, 2009 | 09:44 AM
  #107  
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My Takeda intake has definately been the Best investment for my 4G so far It feels like a "mini-turbo" is in there!

On Takeda's website, it lists the power increase as 14hp and 14 ft/lb torque. That seems kinda high for just an air intake. Has anybody been able to confirm this?
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Old Sep 4, 2009 | 09:52 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by PetesTL
My Takeda intake has definately been the Best investment for my 4G so far It feels like a "mini-turbo" is in there!

On Takeda's website, it lists the power increase as 14hp and 14 ft/lb torque. That seems kinda high for just an air intake. Has anybody been able to confirm this?
How was the installation?
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Old Sep 4, 2009 | 12:40 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by PetesTL
My Takeda intake has definately been the Best investment for my 4G so far It feels like a "mini-turbo" is in there!

On Takeda's website, it lists the power increase as 14hp and 14 ft/lb torque. That seems kinda high for just an air intake. Has anybody been able to confirm this?
I agree with the takeda intake being a great investment. My car is the dyno car in the video, I have been anxious to see another owner dyno their intake to see if these power gains shown on the dyno are the same.
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Old Sep 4, 2009 | 03:05 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by YetiTL
How was the installation?

For me, it wasn't as easy as it should've been. It was my first major mod of this kind. It took me over 2 hours. The hardest part was attaching the coolant hose under the throttle body.....I barely was able to get my hand in there and undo the existing hose and put the new one in. My hand looked like hamburger after I was done with the whole thing!
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Old Sep 5, 2009 | 08:07 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by PetesTL
For me, it wasn't as easy as it should've been. It was my first major mod of this kind. It took me over 2 hours. The hardest part was attaching the coolant hose under the throttle body.....I barely was able to get my hand in there and undo the existing hose and put the new one in. My hand looked like hamburger after I was done with the whole thing!
So if I ask you nicely, would you agree to install it with me if I drove frove Trois-Rivieres to Chicago?

Hahahaha just kidding. Getting the intake to Quebec means a good 115 $ in shipping only plus taxes and the price of the parts meaning a good 450 CDN total. It is mighty tempting though...
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Old Sep 6, 2009 | 11:22 AM
  #112  
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I must say I'm curious to see 0-60 numbers and 1/4 mile with the intake. That would be a good way to judge effectiveness.

Any of you live in a snowy region? Can the intake affect the engine during cold weather? (stupid question I know, I just want to be reassured).
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Old Sep 6, 2009 | 01:29 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by YetiTL
I must say I'm curious to see 0-60 numbers and 1/4 mile with the intake. That would be a good way to judge effectiveness.

Any of you live in a snowy region? Can the intake affect the engine during cold weather? (stupid question I know, I just want to be reassured).
I'm willing to bet that my 0-60 has dropped by about 0.3-0.4 sec over stock.....esp. in "S" mode. You definately feel a stronger surge come on when you gun the engine......passing power is also significantly improved. The new "grunt" noise is so enticing!......sounds almost like a "Hemi" at times!
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Old Sep 6, 2009 | 02:25 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by PetesTL
I'm willing to bet that my 0-60 has dropped by about 0.3-0.4 sec over stock.....esp. in "S" mode. You definately feel a stronger surge come on when you gun the engine......passing power is also significantly improved. The new "grunt" noise is so enticing!......sounds almost like a "Hemi" at times!
Do you work for Takeda or what?

Just kidding, I'll order mine, took the time this morning to read the instructions 3-4 times and looked at my engine bay too to make sure I understood them...
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Old Sep 8, 2009 | 12:25 PM
  #115  
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I just ordered mine from Takeda (Excelerate had a problem with my address and some other info) directly.

I checked with my dealer and they were very clear: no problem with the warranty, no problem to intall it by one of their mechanics and the service and parts manager is a really cool guy. He knew a lot about these kind of parts. (We have a lot of Acuras in my city so they must be used to deal with that kind of request).

I'm eager to get it install and see if I like it. It's my first mod after all!

I'll let you know how this goes...
-YetiTL
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Old Sep 9, 2009 | 01:16 PM
  #116  
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You won't like it.........you'll LOVE it!
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Old Sep 11, 2009 | 12:30 AM
  #117  
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any pics of the wrinkle black finish? thinking about going stealth
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Old Sep 11, 2009 | 03:35 PM
  #118  
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We have the black finish in stock now also.
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Old Sep 14, 2009 | 08:50 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by BLACKURA_NY
any pics of the wrinkle black finish? thinking about going stealth
http://www.takedausa.com/content/ima...1=TR-1007B.jpg

I'm stuck between this and waiting for the comptech icebox as well. Has there been official word that there's definitely going to be one for this car?
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Old Sep 14, 2009 | 09:41 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by prepreludesh
Alright, I'm going to go out on a limb here and recite everything the best I can from memory...

I saw an episode of Horsepower TV (on Spike TV) where they were talking about modern day electronics. They had said the facts were there to prove that a car might not retain all of its horsepower gains after an aftermarket piece is installed and drove around for a couple of days.

The reason that magazines and other advertisements do a dyno test immediately after installing an aftermarket performance piece is because of this process:

(example: air intake)

1. The engine's computer has been reading relatively the same data information from its sensors since the life of the car. It has been running on fuel maps and timing maps based on the intake sensors (which are air temperature and mass-air flow sensor) telling it the same data depending on the RPM the engine is at. The only variable the computer will see is air temperature, which actually, won't increase or decrease any significant amount to necessitate the engine computer to change timing or fuel injector pulsewidth. Also, the O2 sensors in the exhaust system are showing more or less the same readouts because if intake variables are not changing, exhaust variables won't either.

2. But now you've added in an aftermarket intake. This intake has a smoother tract on the inside as well as a larger surface area intake element (cone filter) and has less bends and twists for the air to have to be sucked through. As a result, the engine will now inhale more air, faster.

3. The engine computer (ECU), which learns based on repetetive actions, should initially compensate for the Mass Air-Flow sensor indicating increase in air flow by increasing injector pulsewidth. I'm talking it would be a VERY minimal amount, but alas, more fuel + more air = more power. Heck, it might even change a timing map based on the fact it sees more air and more fuel being ingested. This could also bump up power.

4. More power is shown gained on a dynometer during the computers relearning of why the MAF is reading higher amounts of air ingested at a set RPM.

5. As the car begins to drive around town over the period of a couple of days, the ECU will notice that this increase in air seems to be normal across the board for whatever RPM and amount of load on the engine it sees.

6. After the ECU sees that this variable has been permanently altered, yet just as predictable as the engine was stock, it will begin trimming down on fuel injected in (taking out one key element to increased power) and might switch to a less aggressive timing map. If the knock sensor does not see any faults and if the O2 sensor sees an acceptable Air Fuel Ratio, it will reset the parameters

7. If the parameters are reset for these changes, you will lose probably all of the power you gained.

I hope I made that clear, but all is not lost, here are some exceptions or points of interest.

1. If you reset the ECU (simply by removing the fuse for the ECU for 15-60 seconds) or if you disconnect the negative battery cable for 15-60 seconds, then the ECU will default onto the original stored fuel and timing maps that the car came with. During this time, you should earn back all your lost HP for that time being.

2. If you're not in to resetting the ECU every few days, be happy with the fact that you will probably increase throttle response a little bit. I say a little bit because the TL has an electronic throttle body, which means that the ECU is judging by how far your foot is on the throttle pedal, is how much it's going to open the throttle plate up. Modern day cars are all fitted with this E-Throttle it seems, because it increases fuel mileage and increases lifespan of the engine. I will explain why if anyone wants to know.
this is all fine and dandy but the tl doesnt have a MAF. its a MAP based system.

also, the ECu would learn that more air is available at a given moment and supply more fuel to keep the mixture as close to stoichometric as possible.

more air=more fuel= more power.
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