arbees

I have a 2000 3.2 TL (no nav), and I have been having this problem for a while with starting the car - it sputters and then doesn't start and it takes multiple tries to get it to start, and often after that the check engine light comes on, and then the light goes away on its own after a few days. I had the codes read from AutoZone, and they just indicated misfires.

After some research and discussion with the dealer (who was very helpful), I found a Acura service bulletin (feb 2001) that describes exactly what I seem to be experiencing and it recommends changing the fuel pressure regulator and pcm.

So a few things:

1) Have any other folks tried replacing this and any experiences related to it? If you had a similar problem, then did replacing it fix it?

2) Its been a while (yes, 13 years and going strong) since the bulletin came out and obviously I am out of warranty, and I am trying to get Acura to cover the expenses (aka goodwill as they call it) since its > $1K, any tips/suggestions on this? I have been the owner since the start, and have taken it to Acura dealers for most servicing, etc (yea, i know...), and as a general principle, I believe Acura should cover this as it is a known issue (even though it is manifesting after so long).

Thanks for any suggestions.

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

Did you pay for a real diagnosis, or just talk to a guy at the dealership?

I doubt it's a 1k+ repair. Maybe $200-400 if you do it yourself.

3.2TLc

Hey Arbees, the first thing that I'd recommend is to have your electrical system load tested at a local auto parts store for free. This will help determine if the battery, alternator or starter is at fault. There could be a slow drain short or perhaps a bad ground. Check the battery terminals and all wiring connections.

When was your last tune up ? New NGK plugs may help. There may be a bad coil causing the misfire. Have the EGR passageways and TB intake ever been cleaned ? How many miles are on the car ?

With the fuel pressure regulator, have the fuel pump's pressure checked. Don't just assume that the problem is a $1000 PCM @ the dealer. Have the codes read again and tell us what they are.

victus1

The heavy price tag comes from the ECM replacement suggested in that bulletin. But if you decide to go ahead with this, it's easy to replace the regulator and ecm yourself. Save your money and diy. It's best to get the parts from an online Acura dealer (we have sponsors here) and save lots of money on the parts.

fsttyms1

I agree with the others. Before jumping pocket deep in repairs, trouble shoot things a little. I would start with the electrical system. Make sure everything is outputting the way it should and that your grounds are good, then test your fuels systems psi.

TLer trash

You do understand that this tsb is limited to a very narrow and specific set of conditions. It only applies to a restart after a hot soak, while using winter blended fuel, with ambient temperature about 60 -70 degrees F. You'll sometimes get a code for lean mixture as well. I know one person on the forum who tried just replacing the regulator with the newer one without doing the pcm. It didn't work in his case. My daughter's 00 tl has this problem, but it's so intermittent, as well as the fact that I know it will start after a little rough running or stalling, that I haven't felt compelled to fix it.
Like the others have said, There's lots of other stuff to check first.

arbees

Thanks for the suggestions, and a few things that came up:

1) The car has 108K miles, and is in WA (so likely the fuel is winter blended?)
2) I had the last major service done on it about 6-7 months ago
3) The problem with getting it diagnosed is that it doesn't happen when I take it there, e.g. I had the motor mounts etc replaced last year and mentioned this problem and they couldn't really find anything wrong at that time
4) The codes that I got recently are: P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, and P0305

Also, the reason I suspect it might be related to the bulletin is that it precisely describes what I have been experiencing, from the symptoms::

"Excessive cranking is needed to start the engine after the vehicle is driven and then parked (with the engine off) for about 15 to 20 minutes. The engine stalls a few times before it begins to run smoothly, and the MIL may come on with a misfire DTC"

I also don't see the issue when its cold (30-40) or during summer, and observe it only when the temp is mild e.g. the last few weeks (up here near Seattle).

But I will get some of the other things that you mentioned here checked out first to rule out those issues.

Thanks again.

3.2TLc

IMO, the PCM should either work or not. The various input sensors may be more likely the culprit.....giving erroneous information to it.

Have the fuel pressure checked and inspect the EGR passageways. This is often overlooked.

victus1

"Excessive cranking is needed to start the engine after the vehicle is driven and then parked (with the engine off) for about 15 to 20 minutes. The engine stalls a few times before it begins to run smoothly, and the MIL may come on with a misfire DTC"

I also don't see the issue when its cold (30-40) or during summer, and observe it only when the temp is mild e.g. the last few weeks (up here near Seattle).
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Yes, this is the "heat soak" issue addressed in the tsb. It would be extremely difficult for a mechanic to reproduce this. The conditions have to be right....and realistically, they are too busy to spend all that effort and persistence required to diagnose this properly, which could take days. I've heard instances of the mechanic recommending to replace all the coils because of the misfires. You don't wanna run into this.

Try removing the plastic covers off the engine. Ever since I did this it has only happened to me on one occasion in the past year. Haven't had it this year at all and the winter gas and temperature condition are just right. A little cooling in the gas line area goes a long way. One person fixed this problem by setting the fans to run for 15min after the engine is turned off.

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

A used 2000 TL ECU would be SOOOO much cheaper than a new one in case your ECU actually went down. Getting a used good one would cost like $100.

fsttyms1

I would try a used ECU first and have the dealer (or a shop capable of) reprogram your key to it. They are all over EBAY for 50 to 100 dollars. I would give you mine if i still had it, but i recently (like as in last week) threw it away.

TLer trash

Just so we're all clear. I don't think anyone's suggesting that the ecu is causing the starting problem. Acura's tsb calls for a new ecu to keep the fuel calibration correct with the higher pressure regulator. That's why it surprised me when it didn't help the one person here that tried it.

cmulvaney

Hi,
My name is Chris and I'm in Dallas, Texas. I have a 2001 cl that is doing exactly what yours was doing in this post.
Did you find an answer? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Chris

TLer trash

I put the higher pressure regulator on my daughter's tl, and she has not complained of any driveability problems since. It's been around a year, I think. However, the last time I had it in for routine service, it had a bunch of misfire codes pending, but no check engine light, and it's still running fine. One person here has had success with disconnecting the vacuum hose to the regulator. (plug the vacuum hose if you do this.) This might also help with your diagnosis. Another person had a leaking fuel injector. Back to my daughter's car; apparently the fuel economy hasn't changed much, if at all. I was worried that installing the newer regulator without the ecm might kill her mileage.

01tl4tl

hey trash- do you suspect a coil failing for the misfire codes?
done the `remove power at coil` test to see if rpm changes?
Some may need a bit of rpm/load to show weakness

many would drive the car and have no idea!

TLer trash

^^^I don't suspect a coil at this time, but she does have a spare in the trunk just in case. I ignored the problem on her car for a long time, as I have seen it on other cars before, and it wasn't any big deal. When it happened to me at the shop with her car I could see why she was bothered by it. I could barely get it into the shop, and it was knocking so badly that I thought the engine had thrown a rod, or spun a few bearings. I went ahead with the oil change any way, and the car ran fine when I was done. What started this was letting it run outside to warm it up. 15 minutes turned in to 45, and when I got back to it, it was running rough and knocking. There was no engine off hot soak, as it was running with the hood open. The temp gauge was just below 1/2 as always, but it was warm out and we were still on winter blend fuel. The best way I can describe it would be compare it to an overheated, carbureted car, running on with the ignition turned off.

01tl4tl

sounds like a case for Seafoam! clean out cabon layers and restore combustion!
YOU can be trusted with the master vac port method, plus a can in half tank of gas.
All others should use gas method 2 times instead of vac port

fsttyms1 lets his 00 TL idle for literally HOURS a day at jobsites with no issues.
It will stay internally clean and temp perfect if all is well in the engine bay

start cking those coils via pulling power lead to coil, one at a time- watch for minor drop in rpm on good coils- and no change on bad one
May have to hold rpm up a bit to have problem reveal itself clearly