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Supposedly I'm removing the S\C from the guys car Friday morning. I'm going to be ordering Innovative Motor Mounts for my car today, so my question is now that my car will be Supercharged which mounts should I go with? Street/Track/Race/ or Extreme?
Sorry, I can't help you with that one, I'm on OEM mounts.
Originally Posted by 2ndgentl
my 09 TL IM.
One question for you 2ndgentl.
Did you get the IRMC on the 09TL intake to work with your 03CL cable driven bypass valve actuator? If so, please share how you connected it in order for it to work through the rev range as dictated by the ecu. Just curious.
Sorry, I can't help you with that one, I'm on OEM mounts.
One question for you 2ndgentl.
Did you get the IRMC on the 09TL intake to work with your 03CL cable driven bypass valve actuator? If so, please share how you connected it in order for it to work through the rev range as dictated by the ecu. Just curious.
Good luck on Friday
Sorry Zeta, no I didn't get it to work with the IRMC. Not sure how to do that. The only issue I have after I installed the 09 TL IM and 76mm TB was that sometimes when I have the A\C on it will throw a code (forgot which code, I'll look next time it happens) and the car will start surging until I reset the ECU. I notice this only happens when it's really hot outside
Sorry Zeta, no I didn't get it to work with the IRMC. Not sure how to do that. The only issue I have after I installed the 09 TL IM and 76mm TB was that sometimes when I have the A\C on it will throw a code (forgot which code, I'll look next time it happens) and the car will start surging until I reset the ECU. I notice this only happens when it's really hot outside
No problem. I was just curious if you were able to figure it out as others who have the 09TL IM have not been able to as well.
A HUGE WEIGHT HAS BEEN LIFTED OFF MY CHEST, I FINALLY GOT THE SUPERCHARGER!! Lol This guy has made plans 10 times already to come over and sell me the supercharger but kept delaying. I was starting to feel like a little kid without his lollipop. He finally came over last night around 7pm. He didn't leave my house until 4:30am! Lol I had to make sure that I got EVERYTHING needed for this swap. Also, I had to make sure I got his car running perfect after de-tuning it. I'll take some pics today and post them. I'm really going to take my time with the installation and make sure I do it right. He had the Extreme Innovative Motor Mounts on his car so I think I'm going to order those since I took his car out for a ride after de-tuning it and they felt fine. No vibrations. I can't wait to start piecing this S\C kit on to my car
Just a word of caution, be careful not to stress the input shaft connection (seal) at the SC'er housing when handling. One would think that those two allen head screws keeping the input shaft connected would be adequate in force to prevent a seal breach; however, those four removed screws really weaken the connection until they are reinstalled with the blower bracket.
Just a word of caution, be careful not to stress the input shaft connection (seal) at the SC'er housing when handling. One would think that those two allen head screws keeping the input shaft connected would be adequate in force to prevent a seal breach; however, those four removed screws really weaken the connection until they are reinstalled with the blower bracket.
Thanks Zeta, I literally just took a look at what you are talking about on the S\C so I will definitely handle it with care. One thing I didn't remove from that Accord was the fuel pump. I believe he has a Wahlbro 255 in his tank. I'm wondering if I needed that. I have the stock injectors and fuel rail so I don't think it would have made a difference unless I get bigger injectors. Either way he said he would also drop me off bigger injectors, fuel rail, RL front calipers, and he said he has a piggy back tuner system which I already know it's not as good as a stand alone system. But still, if it's for free then it's for me..lol
If you can, try and get that high flow Walbro 255 fuel pump. It's on the CT Engineering six speed checklist #360-010. You may be able to swap him your OEM CL fuel pump to get him back on the road, but yeah, you are going to need that extra high flow for your S/C'er.
One question, do you have the undersized light weight crankshaft pulley or a light weight OEM sized CS pulley?
If you can, try and get that high flow Walbro 255 fuel pump. It's on the CT Engineering six speed checklist #360-010. You may be able to swap him your OEM CL fuel pump to get him back on the road, but yeah, you are going to need that extra high flow for your S/C'er.
One question, do you have the undersized light weight crankshaft pulley or a light weight OEM sized CS pulley?
The top pic is the one on the S\C, and the bottom is the one in the alternator. They both look as if they are aluminum, at least the one on the alternator does. The one on the alternator is a double pulley, one for the alternator belt and one for the supercharger belt which is slightly bigger than the alternator belt pulley
I looked at my SC'er pulley and it does not have the part number reflected on yours; however, it looks the same size. Not sure about the alt. pulley as to whether it is the stock 3.5psi supplied with the kit or the HBP.
When I search on-line for pn 2A034-333 I get a discontinued notice on the Vortech Superchargers website.
On your profile page, you wrote that you have 'light weight pulleys' when you list an overview of your current modifications. Is the lower Crank Shaft pulley OEM sized or an under drive (smaller than OEM) sized pulley?
The reason I ask is, IF it is OEM sized, than you will get all of the psi available to you based on the sizes of the alt. and SC'er pulleys you show above in your pictures. IF your current crank shaft pulley is under driven, than you will leave some available psi on the table because of its smaller size.
For example, I have the UR light weight OEM sized crank shaft pulley driving the CTE alternator HBP with the kit supplied SC'er pulley for a total of a very rare 5.5-6psi on a good non-humid low outside temperature day.
I have a lightweight OEM size crank pulley. The pulley on the S\C is 3.5" when I measured the OD, but where the belt is inserted it looks to be 3.33" as stamped. The one on the alternator for the S\C is 3" OD, so where the belt is inserted its a hair under 3"
I have a lightweight OEM size crank pulley. The pulley on the S\C is 3.5" when I measured the OD, but where the belt is inserted it looks to be 3.33" as stamped. The one on the alternator for the S\C is 3" OD, so where the belt is inserted its a hair under 3"
Excellent, then you should get all psi due to your set-up. I could not get may caliper in a decent position to measure my HBP alt pulley, sorry; otherwise, the other numbers should get you the 6+psi your friend claims he got when it was installed on his Accord, especially if he was running an OEM sized crank pulley.
I was looking at the CLS6 checklist and noticed that the SC‘er blower pulley, supplied with the kit, is listed as (4”); part #355-119. I have this one on my SC’er.On the check list, the supplied alternator pulley is listed as (3.0”); part #355-135. This is, most likely, the 3.5psi kit pulley gnuts (for example) has on his alternator, currently generating 3.5psi of boost with the above (4”) SC’er pulley.
Therefore, I’m thinking that:
The alternator pulley shown in your picture above is a (3.0”) #355.135, and is very close to your 3” OD measurement.
Your measured 3.5” OD SC’er pulley stamped as 3.33 is smaller than the (4”) supplied originally with the kit and may have been replaced at some point in the life of the unit. This in turn, would explain why it is generating more psi with the (3.0”) alt. pulley in (a) and why I found it as a cancelled part # 2A034-333 on Vortech Superchargers website.
In addition, I believe gnuts mentioned that he had a high boost SC’er pulley made to run with his (3.0”) alt. pulley, at some point, so maybe he can chime in when he gets a chance. I would bet that his SC’er HBP is smaller than (4”) similar to yours, speeding up revolutions and increasing psi.
OEM sized crank shaft pulley + (3.0”) alternator pulley + 3.33 SC’er pulley = 6-7+psi.
I was looking at the CLS6 checklist and noticed that the SC‘er blower pulley, supplied with the kit, is listed as (4”); part #355-119. I have this one on my SC’er.On the check list, the supplied alternator pulley is listed as (3.0”); part #355-135. This is, most likely, the 3.5psi kit pulley gnuts (for example) has on his alternator, currently generating 3.5psi of boost with the above (4”) SC’er pulley.
Therefore, I’m thinking that:
The alternator pulley shown in your picture above is a (3.0”) #355.135, and is very close to your 3” OD measurement.
Your measured 3.5” OD SC’er pulley stamped as 3.33 is smaller than the (4”) supplied originally with the kit and may have been replaced at some point in the life of the unit. This in turn, would explain why it is generating more psi with the (3.0”) alt. pulley in (a) and why I found it as a cancelled part # 2A034-333 on Vortech Superchargers website.
In addition, I believe gnuts mentioned that he had a high boost SC’er pulley made to run with his (3.0”) alt. pulley, at some point, so maybe he can chime in when he gets a chance. I would bet that his SC’er HBP is smaller than (4”) similar to yours, speeding up revolutions and increasing psi.
OEM sized crank shaft pulley + (3.0”) alternator pulley + 3.33 SC’er pulley = 6-7+psi.
Ok, now all that being said if it produces 6 - 7 lbs of boost like that guy claimed it does and you Zeta finding out that he was probably right, do you think my engine with stock internals will hold up to it with 160k? Probably need the bigger injectors as well. He sent me a picture of some parts that he will be dropping off as well with the Walbro 255 fuel pump. They are bigger injectors (I think 400cc, but not sure), bigger fuel rail, and not sure what the red thing is
Ok, now all that being said if it produces 6 - 7 lbs of boost like that guy claimed it does and you Zeta finding out that he was probably right, do you think my engine with stock internals will hold up to it with 160k?
That’s a good question, 2ndgentl. I had 45K when I had my SC’er installed back in 2005. This time last year I had it rebuilt with 105K miles and a total of 150K on the motor. I’d say a mixture of 60/40 of the 105K SC’er miles were stop&go traffic vs. highway. I did not drive the car as hard as you may have driven yours ; however, I did abuse the new found power early on after the SC’er install as one would expect.
IMHO, if your car is not currently burning oil and leaving a ‘fog’ at its rear when you drive it away, then you have a good starting point for the SC’er install. At least until you get it up and running and have gone through the install process/fine tuning. These engines j32 are pretty stout and (salvage) plentiful especially the j35a3’s.
Originally Posted by 2ndgentl
Probably need the bigger injectors as well.
That’s why I went through writing what I noticed above about the alternator and SC’er pulley’s above. It was unusual for your friend to claim 6-7psi when the norm was either 3.5psi with the kit supplied alt. pulley or 5.5-6psi with the larger alternator HBP that CT Engineering offered as an option back in the day. It turns out your friend had something else going on, in the form of that 3.33 SC’er pulley, that stood out as different. Therefore, to answer your question above, Yes, I believe you will need bigger injectors. As gnuts mentioned somewhere in this thread, the 3.5psi pulley is definitely safe for stock injectors. Depending on what opinions you read about/believe, the 5.5-6 psi CT HBP is probably safe with the stock injectors for normal driving; however, I believe the HBP pushes the stock injectors to the ragged edge of their limits if you constantly ‘beat on them’; therefore, causing detonation and all the other shit that can be harmful to a FI engine. Your 6-7psi range has a higher probability of needing larger injectors/rails in conjunction with an awesome tune to give you the reliability you seek.
Originally Posted by 2ndgentl
He sent me a picture of some parts that he will be dropping off as well with the Walbro 255 fuel pump. They are bigger injectors (I think 400cc, but not sure), bigger fuel rail, and not sure what the red thing is
That red thing appears to be the fuel pressure regulator. You can see it in the picture below at the middle near the firewall. It just looks different then the kit suppled FPR on page #9 of the CT SC’er installation instructions attached. It looks like he is giving you all the items you need with the purchase price of the SC’er to get your car up and running.
My advice would be to take your time, and if possible either call or visit the King’s Performance peeps in Orlando and give them the rundown on your goals for the car and what parts you have to start with. Then they can provide the professional wizardly advice that will make your build safe and reliable; thus, maximizing efficiency of your efforts.
The bigger the pulley on the alternator, the bigger the boost. The smaller the pulley on the s/c, the bigger the boost. Stock alternator pulley s/c size is 2.7, then HBP 3.0 and Cl-s HBP 3.3.
HBP shaft pulley is 3.4" four groove comptech keyed pulley.
Zeta - I was just reading Rondog's thread and he said he got to 6psi and sometimes when the weather was cool 7psi.
The bigger the pulley on the alternator, the bigger the boost. The smaller the pulley on the s/c, the bigger the boost. Stock alternator pulley s/c size is 2.7, then HBP 3.0 and Cl-s HBP 3.3.
HBP shaft pulley is 3.4" four groove comptech keyed pulley.
Zeta - I was just reading Rondog's thread and he said he got to 6psi and sometimes when the weather was cool 7psi.
Thanks, gnuts for chiming in. I am certainly not the expert on all these various potential pulley sizes/combinations and psi yield. It was most likely this guy 'scalbert' whom made it up close to 9psi.
In addition, I was able to find some good info, though, in the following ancient threads:
Originally Posted by scalbert
There seems to be some confusions when referring to various SC pulley sizes. I want to propose a naming convention to help identify what people are running.
There are two pulleys used and that can be changed; the dual alternator pulley and the SC pulley. I say we clarify this by adding ALT or SC on the end of pulley size statement. This is assuming the accessory belt portion of the alternator pulley is unchanged which it should be. Here are the one's I know of so far:
3.0ALT - Base SC Kit Alternator Pulley
3.275ALT - What is commonly referred to as the HBP.
3.8SC - Base SC Kit SC Pulley
3.5SC - The First Pulley I Had Made
3.3SC - My Current SC Pulley
I am currently running a combination of the 3.275ALT and the 3.3SC which yields about 8 PSI mean or nearly 9 PSI peak.
Running the 3.275ALT and the 3.8SC yields about 5.5 PSI boost, etc.
And info on running a stock sized crank shaft pulley:
Originally Posted by scalbert
I have been asked about running the UR crank pulley with the SC kit and finally decided to run the numbers. This is just for the UR under drive crank pulley which is smaller than the stock crank pulley.
When the UR crank pulley is used with the SC kit, the blower would be turned only slightly faster than the engine even with the HBP. So you would only be making about 1.6 PSI boost. This would give up about 30 - 35 WHP at this low of boost; or the majority of the gain the SC provides.
Here are the numbers for the Accessory Belt (in millimeters):
Stock Crank / Alternator Side
175 / 67 = 2.612 Ratio
UR Crank / Alternator Side
141 / 67 = 2.104 Ratio
Here are the numbers for the SC Belt:
Base Pulley / SC Pulley
76 / 100 = 0.76 Ratio
HBP / SC Pulley
83 / 100 = 0.83 Ratio
To determine the final ratio, multiply the two values. For example with the standard SC kit:
2.612 * 0.76 = 1.985
In this case the blower is turning 1.985 times faster than the engine. This can be directly correlated to boost since it is a positive displacement blower.
For another example, using the HBP and the stock crank:
2.612 * 0.83 = 2.168
Using the UR crank pulley and the HBP gives the following ratio:
2.104 * 0.83 = 1.746
Obviously slower than even the base SC pulley with the stock crank. Here is how you use these ratios to determine boost. Since it is a 62ci blower it moves that amount every revolution. But since this is a four stroke engine, a cylinder only ingests every other revolution, we have to take half of our displacement. Half of our 3.2L in cubic inches is about 97.5ci.
To calculate the theoretical boost you use the following formula:
62 * Ratio / 97.5 * 14.7 - 14.7 = Boost
Where 62 = the blowers displacement
Ratio = the drive ratio
97.5 = half of the engine’s displacement
14.7 = the assumed atmospheric absolute pressure
For example with the base SC kit
62 * 1.985 / 97.5 * 14.7 - 14.7 = 3.86 PSI
That 3.86 PSI boost is about correct with the base kit. Here it is with the HBP and stock crank:
62 * 2.168 / 97.5 * 14.7 - 14.7 = 5.57 PSI
Which, once again, is about right.
Now for UR pulley with the HBP:
62 * 1.746 / 97.5 * 14.7 - 14.7 = 1.62 PSI
IMO, it is better to stick with the stock crank pulley.
Just for fun, here are the numbers with the base SC pulley and the UR crank pulley:
Don't want to 'beat this dead horse' any further; however, it helps 2ndgentl further his decision making process, in regards to whether he will need larger fuel injectors and the complimentary tuning to get him in the safe/reliable zone for his projects psi range.
2ndgentl, just an FYI. When the time comes for your SC'er install you'll need a set of 6 Denso IK22 spark plugs. They are a step colder than the stock plugs, I believe. They are easy to forget so make sure you install them in your engine BEFORE placing the blower, hehe. Don't ask me how I know.
best price I could find shipped with a quick search:
It was most likely this guy 'scalbert' whom made it up close to 9psi.
Although I referenced his work as the bible at the time, he comes in second my friend...
The blower was putting out more than that with a custom s/c pulley; pressure loss was caused by the FMIC prior to entering the IM. Didn't see more then 10 psi regardless if the weather was cool.
@2ndgentl If in fact you have the HBP, you can run your stock injectors. I did so with a fuel pressure regulator, upgraded fuel pump, bolt-ons & tune. Granted, I wasn't beating up on the car; but, it pulled hard RELIABLY whenever I got on it.
That red thing appears to be the fuel pressure regulator. [QUOTE]
I don't think it's the fuel pressure regulator in that picture with the runners and fuel rail because I thought this was the regulator that I took off which is what you saw by the firewall...but man, I can't thank you guys enough for all your help! You guys are the example why Acurazine is still going strong after all these years. Where else can you look at beautiful Acura's and find out EVERYTHING you need to know how to modify and work on them?!! Very much appreciated! But damn, Every time I walk through my garage and look at that S\C'er I still have to touch it to make sure that it's still real. Lol
2ndgentl, I was looking at the INSANE SHAFTS website and was pleasantly surprised at the price for a set of 500hp rated axles.
Did you order the IS-059-IS-060 pair for the 98-2002 ACCORD V-6 (3.0L) M.T./A.T. + 99-03 ACURA TL (3.2L) V-6 J-Series?
If it's not a hassle unboxing them/when time permits, post a picture of those 'bad boys'. I bet they look sic.
Honesty, they look identical...lol The one to the left is the 500 hp rated shaft. The shafts look to be the same thickness which means the U-Joint part must be a lot stronger since that is what always breaks. But yes I did order the IS-059-IS-060 shafts, which I too thought they were pretty cheap.
Honesty, they look identical...lol The one to the left is the 500 hp rated shaft. The shafts look to be the same thickness which means the U-Joint part must be a lot stronger since that is what always breaks. But yes I did order the IS-059-IS-060 shafts, which I too thought they were pretty cheap.
Nice! Thanks for the picture.
Not sure if you considered it; however, while you have the axles out on both sides, now would be a good time to check the inner and outer lower control arm bushings for cracks and wear. I believe you mentioned that you had about 160K on the car? If so, they may be looking kind of tired. In addition, while you have access to those large bolts holding the radius rod to the LCA, it would definitely be a good time to change the soft OEM radius rod bushings if you have not already done so.
Energy Suspension has a cheap set of harder polyurethane radius rod bushes made for the Accord; ES #16.7103 for around $24 shipped. The 2002 Accord OEM and the 2003 CL-S6 share the same RR bushing part # 51381-S84-A01; 51391-S84-A01, so they will fit the CL-S with no problem.
I installed them on my car back in August 2011 and they made a noticable difference in stiffening up the front end compared to the soft OEM's. The webpage link above states; 'On front wheel drive vehicles diminishes wheel hop and traction loss during standing start accelerations.'
Not sure if you considered it; however, while you have the axles out on both sides, now would be a good time to check the inner and outer lower control arm bushings for cracks and wear. I believe you mentioned that you had about 160K on the car? If so, they may be looking kind of tired. In addition, while you have access to those large bolts holding the radius rod to the LCA, it would definitely be a good time to change the soft OEM radius rod bushings if you have not already done so.
Energy Suspension has a cheap set of harder polyurethane radius rod bushes made for the Accord; ES #16.7103 for around $24 shipped. The 2002 Accord OEM and the 2003 CL-S6 share the same RR bushing part # 51381-S84-A01; 51391-S84-A01, so they will fit the CL-S with no problem.
I installed them on my car back in August 2011 and they made a noticable difference in stiffening up the front end compared to the soft OEM's. The webpage link above states; 'On front wheel drive vehicles diminishes wheel hop and traction loss during standing start accelerations.'
Already replaced all bushings awhile ago except the radius rod bushings, which thanks for that info Zeta I didn't know they made stiffer ones! I know that will help eliminate wheel hop. I wonder if it would be better if there was no bushing there somehow and it was solid. I think that would totally eliminate wheel hop, but maybe break something else instead...I was also wondering if an intercooler could somehow be fit to the S\C'er to keep it a little cooler. And also for looks...here in Florida it gets scorching hot in the summer. Also, I'm not sure if they make another blow-off valve for it that you can hear. Well, I'll definitely be ordering those radius rod bushings today so I can replace the old ones.
Marcelekta made a front mount intercooler. It's pretty much the easiest and foolproof way to cool.
Thanks Gnuts! I wonder how hard it was to put the bumper back on again. It looks great with the intercooler though. I would definitely love to put one on my car as well but I'm not sure if that's necessary now although I would rather do it now that my car is all taken apart. I'm just getting antsy because I've been driving my Honda Element 5-speed AWD for the past 2 1/2 months.... when I replace the clutch in the element I put an aluminum flywheel and a 3-inch lift kit on it as well. Lol
I was also wondering if an intercooler could somehow be fit to the S\C'er to keep it a little cooler. And also for looks...here in Florida it gets scorching hot in the summer. Also, I'm not sure if they make another blow-off valve for it that you can hear.
I wholeheartedly agree, RichKid1982...errr Marcelechka will definitely be your official informational source in regards to an FMIC, as gnuts depicted above. IIRC, he paid a shop for his set-up and tune.
Originally Posted by 2ndgentl
Already replaced all bushings awhile ago except the radius rod bushings, which thanks for that info Zeta I didn't know they made stiffer ones! I know that will help eliminate wheel hop. I wonder if it would be better if there was no bushing there somehow and it was solid. I think that would totally eliminate wheel hop, but maybe break something else instead...
I guess if you could find a size specific heim joint to seat correctly within the RR space(s) in the front beam, one could fabricate a solid joint to eliminate movement.
If you decide to get the Energy Suspension RR bushes make sure to lubricate the bushes and the spaces they occupy within the front beam to minimize any potential noises/squeaks. Also, the self-lock nut (12mm) that fits on the front of the radius rod either need to be replaced, per the manual, or place some 'blue' thread lock on them when reusing during reinstall. You don't want those backing off over a period of time. Make sure to torque them down all the way down to 40lbf-ft, very important.
Most importantly, there is only one way to install the bushes themselves because they are size specific, in relation to how they sit on the radius rod and fit into the front beam, so be careful when reinstalling. Read the instructions from the manual provided by a thoughtful fellow member below:
lol, 2ndgentl. Are you going to greet the new year with an update on the XLR8 clutch and SC'er install?
Haha, sorry but I have been extremely busy with everything but my car... I did work on it the past two days and got a lot done. The aluminum flywheel\clutch kit is installed and tranny is back in its place. I got the strongest motor mounts from Innovative motor mounts which I believe is the drag racing mounts. I installed those yesterday along with the Energy Suspension RR bushes and the 500 hp Insane Shafts. So all that I have left now is the supercharger which I hope to finish tonight. I will keep you guys updated. I haven't met up with the guy that sold me the supercharger yet to get the rest of the parts (bigger fuel pump, fuel rail and injectors), so I'm not sure how it's going to run with the stock fuel pump and injectors. I also need to replace my spark plugs. I'm getting excited and nervous at the same time because I'm not sure how my car will react
Everything is done but obviously the elbow from the super charger doesn't align to the IM. I am going to try and figure out a way to make it work because I love the looks of the 09 TL IM, but the 2" Ridgeline spacer under the IM isn't helping the alignment issue either. Lol
Here's a pic of my gay ass making love to the S\C before installation. lol I took it out for a spin before the installation to make sure that everything was sound, and it felt very strong (fast)! Maybe because it's been over 2 months since I last drove it and forgot how good it felt. I can't wait to see what the S\C does to this beast...
Everything is done but obviously the elbow from the super charger doesn't align to the IM. I am going to try and figure out a way to make it work because I love the looks of the 09 TL IM, but the 2" Ridgeline spacer under the IM isn't helping the alignment issue either. Lol
Nice progress!
So is the misalignment of the elbow only hanging you up on the high/low verticle axis or a combination of verticle/horizontal?
If only on the high verticle, maybe the 2" Ridgeline spacer can be machined down or an additional spacer can bring it up into alignment?
11-23-2016, 10:44 AM
; however, I did abuse the new found power early on after the SC’er install as one would expect.
