dug-mac

Looking to get my car ready for another crappy New England winter. We already have 8 inches of snow forecast for tomorrow, so I'm a little late in doing this. Now that the temperatures are cold outside, I can no longer do the work myself. There's this place in town that seems to have a good reputation and he sounded like he knew his stuff on the phone. His best protective treatment involves 3 coats of hand polish followed by using a paint sealant. This treatment is supposed to be a once a year type thing and should withstand many washings, etc. Being basically an ignorant person, I thought that polishes were bad for cars with clear coats. He assures me that the polishes they use will not hurt clear coats and that his process will condition the paint such that it won't dry out in winter weather, etc. Does this sound like correct info to you guys? Any help would be appreciated...

getright

First off, polishes are usually good for your paint when the right product is used and it is applied properly. They are used for removing contaminents from the paint and removing swirls as well. I would think though, that instead of several polish coats they would do several sealant coats to ready your car for winter. This may take time as in most cases sealants need time to cure or bond properly before applying another coat. However this will provide the longest lasting protection for your paint. I too have to endure these new england winters but the cl gets to hybernate as of dec. 12 so my maxima gets to take the abuse.

Hawhyen51

Check with him again, are you sure he said 3 coats of polish and sealant and not the other way around? He's also hand polishing, not using a buffer (rotary or dual action)? My on polishing. If your finish is flawless, you should be able to skip this step and get by with cleaner(AIO comes to mind). Most polishes are abraisive and used to correct a flaw, remove surface contamination, clean a surface, or improve paint gloss and surface relection. This process is usually done once before applying a sealant. The sealant is basically a barrier to protect the paint and usually better to have layers of sealant than polish. With minimum cleaning and upkeep, a polymer sealant should provide you duarability and longevity over most natural waxes.

dug-mac

Thanks, guys for your responses. I checked again and he says 3 coats of hand polish and then a sealant to protect the finish for what he says is about a year. My car hasn't had anything done to it really since I got it last year (used). It's an 03, and I've had it washed at the dealers when I go in for service (and they're responsible for a fair number of scratches, too), but I've never waxed it myself. I would like to get the scratches out, and since they're light I suspect the polishing will do that. Does this treatment sound about right to you guys? It does sound like mulitiple polishings and then a sealant. Also, can someone tell me how you can polish the finish without removing the clear coat? Thanks for any help...

Hawhyen51

This "How To Polish" article on Autopia should answer your questions. And this article by David Bynon is also a good read. You mentioned your vehicle's surface hasn't been touched in a year. All the more reason to have it deatailed. I believe you should have it clayed also. Find out more about claying here.

dug-mac

Thanks very much for that post. I tend to approach things conservatively, so my guy mentioning 3 coats of polish sounds excessive. I prefer the approach of David Bynon, and while I'm certainly no expert myself, I have to question the wisdom of fixing even superficial scratches if in so doing you potentially set that area up for further degradation down the road. The reading would suggest that a minimalistic approach is best - one that would address the few small scratches, but leave as much clear coat on as possible. What say you?

TOGWT

Cardinal Rules:
1.Always use the least aggressive product first, evaluate the surface, and then only if necessary, `step-up' to a more abrasive product.
2.With all cleaning products, always test a small, indiscrete area first to ensure it won't discolour or stain the surface, and ensure that the pH of the product is suitable for the material.
3.`Less is more', when using detailing products. Using too much will waste effort, time and product and the results will be much less than satisfactory.
4.Paint Film Surface Preparation; the final finish can only be as good as the prepared surface it's applied to
5.Always use non-toxic, biodegradable and environmentally safe products.
6.Allow chemicals sufficient time to react
7.Apply any product to a small area (2-foot square) maximum

Clear Coat:
To provide further improvements in appearance and durability the Basecoat / Clear coat systems were developed and introduced in the late 70’s. Almost all original equipment manufacturers' (OEM's) automotive paint systems manufactured from 1990 on (with the exception of single stage paint systems) used today have a pigmented base coat protected by a thin layer of water-based, multi-solid, low-solvent polyurethane clear coat, that contains a polymeric resin or binder (a clear coat is simply resin without colour)

The clear coat contains UV inhibitors, and generally one or more silicone additives. The base coat is comprised primarily of pigments or colorants held in place by a polymeric resin film (binder). Clear coat has a thickness of 1.5 – 2.0 Mils, removing more that 0.3 mil (0.0003") of clear coat will cause premature paint film failure. As a point of reference two sheets of Saran wrap placed on top of each other measure 1.5Mil (0.0015") a surface scratch that will `catch' your fingernail is approximately 0.004" deep will usually require wet-sanding and refinishing

The clear coat is the final original equipment manufacturers coating applied to a vehicle to protect the colour coat while providing both depth and a durable, glossy appearance, originally designed to protect metallic paints, but is now applied to all colours. Any product applied on top of the clear coat needs to be transparent otherwise both the paint colour and its depth of shine will be muted.

{each one / teach one][then student /becomes teacher}
JonM

dug-mac

Thanks for posting that. One thing is sure, you guys know a lot more about paint than I do. Still, with all the reading that you've supplied I'm finding it difficult to understand the advantage of using polish of any kind if by it's very nature it will strip away some of the clear coat. Aesthetically we all like a bright shiny finish, and certainly polishes will help provide that, but I remain unconvinced that they actually protect the surface. They might protect the shine (i.e. maintain it longer), but it seems that that shine first relys on a stripping method. Truly protecting a surface, to me, means building that surface layer up, not stripping it away. Where am I going wrong?

snowmanTSX

Though I'm unclear, as others are, by the process which is being suggested by dug's detailer, let me offer another suggestion...

Hold off until spring to get your car detailed. Reason being...after the winter, even if your car is well protected, it's going to look not-so-good come spring and you'll probably need to get it re-polished and waxed. Things like brushing snow/ice off your car, ice chips and salt scratches will have your finish looking like poop after the winter. No sealant can protect your finish from things like that. Then in the spring get the full "soup-to-nuts" detail and your car will look great for many months, instead of for a day or two until the snow comes again in the GREAT NE!!

The question of removing clear coat by polishing seems to be a point of dicussion indefinatley. I would suggest to continue to do some research over the winter until you feel comfortable with what's being done to your car. I highly suggest Autopia.org for info. This will also give you time to check out a few other detailers and give you the ability to ask the right questions.

dug-mac

That is an interesting perspective, snowman. In effect you seem to be saying that any damage that the winter weather might cause could be addressed in the spring by detailing, so why pay to "protect" the surface now - right? As you point out, I'm somewhat apprehensive about what is being considered protective to begin with. Waxing is a different matter (as I see it), and I was wondering how cold it can be outside and still effectively wax a car -------------- Yes, I have a lot of questions...

Hawhyen51

dug-mac, try this article by David Bynon called "Taking On Winter" to help you get by for now. Snowman suggestion is excellent, research more on car care, talk to other detailers and if you're comfortable with the process, then do a full on detail in the spring. Another site to check out is Detail City. Lots of expert help there.

exceldetail

3 polishing steps may be the better choice of words, and Im sure is what your detailer is implying. Yes, polishing does remove a very microscopic layer of clear coat, theres plenty there, not to worry. But also consider if you "touch up" the only areas your concerned about now, your going to have a lot more areas of concern, later. As the paint surface and appearance will not be even. You can pre-address the areas of concern, but you should polish the entire car. Sealants and waxes prefer a more sterile surface, which will allow for better adhesion, and much better durability.
I also agree with waiting until your Spring thaw, to perform a bumper to bumper detail. In the meantime, you may consider just applying a sealant to ward off the elements, and possibly attribute to a less aggressive detail come Spring.
Addressing surfaces in the cold, can/may not be a preferred method, but it is better then nothing at all. Your most important factor you should be concerned with at this point in the calendar, is protection over rejuvination. Im not saying run out, wipe it down and throw some Turtle Wax on, but a good wash, and some NXt or even NuFinish (x 2) (I know, even I said the "NF" word) should be a minimum here.

dug-mac

Thanks for all the help on this one, guys. You seem to really know your stuff. They're predicting mid 40's for this Sunday where I live, so I thought I might give her a good wash and was then thinking of using a sealant. Can I go straight from wash to sealant or would waxing be better? What brand sealant would you guys recommend? I'll probably be forced to go to Napa or Autozone, so I might not have access to some of the higher end stuff out there. Thanks again for walking me through this...

snowmanTSX

That's exactly it.... IMO save your money for now, nothing really can happen over the winter that can't be fixed come spring.

I'd suggest Meg's NXT sealant as an over the counter product for this weekend. Plus it has some small cleaning abilities which will help ease the process. And it's really easy to find, just about everywhere carries it...even Target.

dug-mac

Thanks again, everyone. I'll look for the NXT and report back after this weekend. A lot of this terminology is new to me, so I'm sure I seem like I'm in the dark. That's why forums like this are so valuable...

dug-mac

Just want to post a follow-up. We had nice weather today, mid 40's, which afforded me the opportunity to wash/dry/wax my car. In the end I settled on using Meg's NXT spray wax, partly for time reasons - I didn't want to spend all day on the car. I have to say she looks much nicer now, and that smooth finish has been restored. The NXT must have some cleaning agents as even after a good washing there was some dirt on the applicator. I don't suppose I used the best stuff out there, but my car looks nice and I'm happy that I've done something to protect her for the long winter ahead. Thanks for reading this...