808havok_tsx

over at the meguiar's forums, the meguiar gurus seem to claim that there should be no problem with bonding if you put carnauba over synthetic and vice versa. i'm no chemist so i'm not sure how the whole molecule bonding thingamababer works.

as an experiment, i've put eagle one's spray wax (too lazy) over meg's 2.0 tech wax (which i'm a HUGE fan of btw). i did notice that "deeper" look people claim combined with a kinda' muted "glossy" finish of the synthetic. this is with OTC products so it won't dazzle anyone's pants off.

but i would like to know what you pro's think about the whole bonding issue. like, can you apply synthetic over carnauba later on? in my experiment, the spray wax is such a light layer, it'll melt away pretty fast in the hawaii sun. so i'm sure after a good wash in a couple of weeks, applying synthetic wax shouldn't be much of a problem.

Jesstzn

Can you lead me to the link where they said this ?

"over at the meguiar's forums, the meguiar gurus seem to claim that there should be no problem with bonding if you put carnauba over synthetic and vice versa. "

I'd like to read it .. It might be out of context or if said by Meguiars more marketing .. I had a lot of trouble getting straight answeres out of them about a few things.

A lot of thier products have cleaners in them thus will remove the residue of whats already there.

Just t clear things up .. sealants bond or cross link ( or try to ) to the paint surface .. carnubas don't cross link.

Sealants like a clean pristine surface to bond to .. you can put most sealants over another sealant & layer them if the sealant isn't solvent based like the old Glanz formula. But you can't get a sealant to bond to carnuba.

But you can apply a carnuba over a sealant for added looks .. just be careful the carnuba has no cleaners.


Some interesting readin here too

Waxes/sealants

csmeance

you can put carnuba's (without any cleaners in them) on top of synthetics for a much deeper shine, but you cannot put synthetics ontop of carnuba. The carnuba will not allow the synthetics to bond to the paint and it will just wash off.

exceldetail

I like to refer to Nubas as "floaters". Nubas never really adhere, they just kind of float on the surface.
Polymers/Synthetics actually crosslink. Sort of like meshing. They perform a very durable surface protectant within the paints surface.
Nubas can go atop synthetics, but I really have a hard time believing theres no issue with polys atop a Nuba. It just hasnt happened IME.

TOGWT

What's so complicated about 'polymers' is that there are about 30,000 different 'types' so generalization doesn't always explain things adequately (don't worry I'm not going to even try to explain the differences

But if you want to improve the look of any Carnauba wax or the top end Zymol estate glazes or Swissvax, apply a very thin layer of Z-8 (a polymer) ---wow

TOGWT

You cannot apply a polymer over a Glaze or a Carnauba wax due to bonding incompatibility

Carnauba wax will bond to a cross-linked polymer; conversely if a polymer is applied on top of Carnauba wax the polymer cross-linking / bonding may be compromised.

Quote: Can you lead me to the link where they said this ?

"over at the meguiar's forums, the meguiar gurus seem to claim that there should be no problem with bonding if you put carnauba over synthetic and vice versa. "

I'd like to read it .. It might be out of context or if said by Meguiars more marketing .. I had a lot of trouble getting straight answeres out of them about a few things".

I too would like to read this (for amusement only)

Very informative link / article Jesstzn

808havok_tsx

try these...

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...rnauba+bonding

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...rnauba+bonding

btw, TOGWT, you seem to have posted in the meg's threads. if its you, i think they are still waiting for a response...

TOGWT

btw, TOGWT, you seem to have posted in the meg's threads. if its you, i think they are still waiting for a response... from 2004?

If anyone wants to challenge the content of any article I post on any forum I'll be happy to enter into a dialog, but challenging scientific / chemical basic facts is pointless, as is the request to cite every reference

TOGWT

[QUOTE=TOGWT]btw, TOGWT, you seem to have posted in the meg's threads. if its you, i think they are still waiting for a response...
From 2004?

If anyone wants to challenge the content of any article I post on any forum I'll be happy to enter into a dialog, but challenging scientific / chemical basic facts is pointless, as is the request to cite every reference [EDIT too quick with the enter button]

Challenging information provided is only valid if you ask for clarification on what you don't understand, or what is unclear or you are prepared to refute it with a logical argument or fact; otherwise its just disagreement for the sake of it.

Jesstzn

I have seen the content of those 2 threads many times .. its what I call a canned answer .. They are asking TOGWT to provide scientific proof that carnubas under sealants creat a bonding issue but THEY don't provide scientific proof it doesn'r.

In all due respects to Meguiars and thier products to get an answer out of them that might jeopordize a sale is near impossible.

Do a search in thier forum and see what I had to go through just to get an answer on NXT cleaning .. it took 3 pages and numerous posts to come up with anything passed a canned answer.

There is times where TOGWT and I don't see eye to eye but I'm behind him on this one...

808havok_tsx

that's cool with me. i ain't challenging anyone since i'm no chemist. my concern as a consumer is not at the molecular level but rather the broader general product level.

i CAN give empircal evidence that disputes meg's claim tho. as a product test, i used a paint cleaner on the hood/roof/trunk of the car and then laid down next 2.0. the product is everything as advertised. the sides, however, i did not use paint cleaner and just laid down a coat of nxt 2.0 over previous carnauba layer (consumer level zymol). i can tell you that visually, the tops have a much more glossy finish than the sides. i can also tell you that the tops are still slippery by feel after 4 weeks; the sides not as slick to the touch. "boosting" with eagle one spray wax didn't do a whole lot other than make the shine just a notch "deeper", if at all. nothing to write home about.

once exceldetail releases the hand-applied polish *hint hint*, i'm gonna' thoroughly give my car some love, lay down 2 coats of nxt 2.0 and be done with it. it HAS lasted longer than any consumer-level carnauba i've used in the heat. after 3 car washes, the water still beads like no tomorrow. i don't feel the need to "top" it with anything. CD/QD has kept the car looking during good weather. i'll post pix and report later by updating that nxt 2.0 thread we have on the forum.

racerxx

i cant tell if you think nxt is a carnuba or just the way you worded it....anyway if you didnt know it, nxt is a synthetic sealant and not a carnuba, and yes it does last pretty long, i have used it and i do like it...you can also get the spray nxt to boost it up inbetween applications...for a while there, i would use the spray nxt everytime i washed the car...i was addicted to it....

808havok_tsx

i'm very well aware that nxt 2.0 is a synth. hence the discussion since i was experimenting. i'm done experimenting. gonna' stick to synth especially since i have cgp, it'll give me the look i want and offer me longer protection. for the life of me, i can't find a bottle of the nxt gen spray wax in any store in hawaii. shipping is out of the question - shipping costs more than the product! once i find the nxt spray wax, it'll be my booster between car washes as well.

racerxx

do you have autozone or walmart on the island...if so, then might have it...i got mine at autozone....i know living on the islands you dont always get everything we get stateside....