Hey guys,

Hopefully someone can help me out with my current situation. I detailed my mom's 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe (bright silver in color) with 26k miles on it 3 weeks ago. Anyway, I clayed the car since there was a lot of grit and tiny little pin head size rust specks on the bottom part of the doors. The Meguiars Smooth Clay Kit easily removed these. After I clayed, I polished the SUV, and then I applied a coat of Four Star UPP.

Fast forward to today. I took a look at my mom's Suv, and noticed that there are quite a few rust specks again. I know for a fact that I completely removed these 3 weeks ago. Why are these coming back? What do I do to prevent these? I don't want to have to clay the car every month. If someone could let me know what to do, that would be great!

Thanks!

Jeff

 

Yikes!! I don't know if you can remove rust with clay... rust usually is on the metal, so if you keep claying the paint, it still won't do anything.. you have to get down to the bare bones metal and see what's going on with the metal... Don't quote me though.

BTW, what's Hyundai's paint warranty? It might be under warranty.

 

Thing is, if I clay the paint, they go away. For some reason, they're coming back. It looks more like the rain dust that white cars get (little rust specs). I know that they're inevitable, but I'm just not sure why it's coming back so frequently. Is there anything that I can do to keep it from coming back?

 

Check this out (originally from Jesstzn, but good info) - http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3632222

Is that what you are seeing?

 

That is EXACTLY what I'm referring to! Like I said above, I can easily remove them with the clay bar, but after a few weeks, they seem to re-appear. Any idea to keep them from coming back, at least for awhile?

 

Jeff, see if they are coming back in the exact spots you removed them. My advice, take a piece of painters tape, cover an area where you will remove/clay again. Recheck in a week, and see if this is something occurring from the paint. Sometimes if rust gets in the paint, it reblooms with water until the rust is removed. You may need a chemical bath if the rust is blooming from within the area from clearcoat, to metal.

 

Correct term is "Rail Dust" and if you live in snow country and the roads aren't totally cleaned yet it can be new particles. They get flipped up and because they are magnetic they stick to the surface and imbed themselves. They come from filings off of snow plow blades in most cases.

 

A lot of iron particles in brake linings also......

 

Pat, how do I deal with the brake linings issue?

Also, I do live in the Chicago, IL area, so the SUV sees quite a bit of snow. Anyway, what do you mean by a "chemical bath" Pat?

Pat, I was thinking about washing it with ONR, claying again, and then applying some Duragloss #105 - would that help, or no?

Thanks again!

 

I thought that WTF would be a new product for rust specks

Automotive International - http://www.valugard.net/cms/

 

By chemical bath, he means decontamination kit which is what TOGWT linked on Valugard's website.

 

Jeff,

When rail dust gets under the surface of the clear, claying will just shear it off at the surface, leaving some underneath. The way to remove this completely is by doing a chemical neutralizing/decontamination with a product like the ValuGard's ABC kit.

 

You cant avoid it, so you have to deal with it......Same with snow and salt. The chemical baths are produced by the company Jon suggested, Valugard. Neutralizer and aklaline baths help to dislodge foreign debris from your paint.
Im really concernd you've got blossoming going on under your SF's clear coat. 2-3 part system would be the only way to possibly put an end to it. i would also check with the manufacturers warrant on paint!
It wouldnt hurt to give it one more home remedy though with NRWS, clay and 105.

 

As far as I am aware isn't clay designed to "Pull" the particle from the paint not shear ir off? I don't think clay has the properties to shear off a metalic particle.

I have had to deal with a lot of rail dust over the years and once it was addressed with clay in the spring the only reoccurance was fresh particles.

The pix in the link provided above is my car last spring .. and this spring it looked the same and it looked the same the spring before and the odd time I would get a new spot it was a new spot not a leftover sheared particle.

You can tell the difference .. the shear particle when it makes a brown stain is hard to feel above the surface. A new particle sits above the surface and is easy to feel.

I'd like to suggest to the OP he determines what he is dealing with before he deals with it.

 

I do agree that Jeff needs to fully assess the situation prior to determining a course of action.

While claying does a very good job of removing contaminants (in this case, rail dust), it can, and does have a tendency to leave behind particles that are below the surface. Sometimes the item protruding may be the brittle, rusty part which easily comes off...leaving more under the surface (yet it feels smooth). If you think that it came off, yet the rust bloom comes back, then there are still contaminants below the surface.

Instead of doing a lot of writing, I am going to take the lazy way out and do the copy/paste method from some extremely knowledgable detailers that are highly regarded for their knowledge.

From Autopia:
Accumulator:
Before clay, I used polishes and paint cleaners for this type of contamination. When detailing clay came out in the early '90s it was, generally, an improvement. Once I tried decontamination (via ABC) I realized that clay isn't always the best approach.

Clay doesn't "pull contamination out" of the paint like tweezers pulling out a splinter, rather it *shears it off* like a razor cutting off hair.

Clay shears off protruding portions of the ferrous contamination, often (but not always) leaving some residual contamination behind, often embedded below the surface of the paint. When this residual contamination oxidizes, you get the recurrence of the rust bloom. When you clay again, you're removing the spreading oxidation/rust, not the base cause of the problem (the bit of stuff below the surface of the paint).

IF the clay works fine, then cool; problem solved. But if it doesn't get the specks out, and/or if the rust blooms recur, then you simply *need* to do the chemical decontamination. I had recurring rust blooms with paint cleaners and clay, I do *NOT* have them with ABC. But if you let things go too long the rust will get so firmly established that *nothing* will completely eradicate it, so don't put off taking action.

In severe cases, clay while the acidic portion of the system is dwelling.

Bence:
They look like rust because they ARE rust spots.

Ferrous contamination (aka rail dust, industrial fallout; caused by trains, planes, factories, etc.) looks like this. Tiny little particles embed themselves into the paint and basically everywhere, and start to corrode. That's called blooming. Clay is just a temporary fix if the particles are embedded deeply, as it just abrades the top of the particles off. The remaining parts will stay put in the paint, and bloom again.

Light ferrous contamination can be removed with clay, but be aware, that the particles are a lot tugher than seems. There is an answer though: paint decontamination. Decon kits are available from Finish Kare or Autoint.

TOGWT:
The clay bar may not totally remove rail dust, but it will exfoliate the protruding particles.

Acid Neutralizing Wash
I is strongly recommend an acid neutralizing wash followed by a corrosion inhibitor on an annual or semi-annual basis. Ford has a TSB that states all new vehicles must be treated with a neutralization system prior to delivery. You will find that a proper acid neutralizing wash opens the paint fissures (pores) and will release most of the embedded ferrous oxide deposits and the remainder comes off very easily by clay encapsulation. These systems will produce a better finish on the paint surface than is possible with detailer’s clay alone and is also the only solution that addresses acid rain, industrial pollutants, and tree sap etching as well as other polyurethane clear coat concerns


A three step neutralization and wash system comprises; (a) Acid Neutralizer (b) Alkaline Neutralizer (use in conjunction with detailer’s clay) is a blend of acids, which deep cleans painted surfaces to remove alkaline deposits and safely dissolves the ferrous metal particles bond with the paint so that they can be rinsed away and (c) a pH 7.0 Surface Conditioner, which safely removes both surface and subsurface contamination (i.e. rust) that collects on a painted finish which includes, industrial fallout (IFO), rail dust, acid rain, hard water spots, road tar, bird excrement, waxes/silicones, oxidation, adhesive residue, road grime and rust stains introduced via road salt, ferrous metal deposits. All necessary safety precautions should be taken whilst using this product

 

The TOGWT portion I agree with .. the Accumulator portion I don't. If you have ever followed his posts and the product usage he claims he would need to have 40 cars and apply products to them 24/7 . One of the reasons I don't go to Autopia much any more. I have seen his posts where he is commenting on the longivity of a sealant on a car and totally contradicts himself in another post saying he has applied toppers or used enhansers on the same car.


From what I have read clay will pull from the surface contaminants that it can adhear to .. the rest it will leave but it doesn't have the capability or the properties to "shear" off the top of a tiny tiny particle of rail dust.

 

I'm an idiot, I think I know what might be causing my problems!

My mom's a flight attendant, and has been doing International trips, which means that her Santa Fe sits out at the O'Hare airport employee parking lot. Further, I'm sure that she has planes flying over her car CONSTANTLY, probably dropping tons of debris, etc. Would it be feasible that this could be causing the rail dust to accumulate this quickly? Perhaps I will just have to start claying it for her on a more regular basis.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

What debris would planes be dropping? It's all painted surface no? The only thing I can think that would drop possibly is some rubber from the wheels from the previous landing.

 

All I know is that clay doesn't remove everything and can only do so much.

 

Ok guys,

Well.... I will give the car another wash, clay, and then apply some Duragloss 105.

If that doesn't work.... then I will step it up and do the chemical bath....

Thanks much, guys!

 

Before you clay but after the wash feel the spots to see if they are above or below the surface. That should tell you if its blooming from below and needing the treatment or if they are fresh specks.