Help requested with achieving the BEST results.
Help requested with achieving the BEST results.
I made a looong post on Autopia last night and so far, no responses. Since time is an issue, I'm gonna repost it here and hopefully someone can chime in. Its mainly regarding laying C915 on top of Zaino products...
http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-det...ts-needed.html
http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-det...ts-needed.html
Now I detail on the side so posting a thread like this may make me look bad but... I want to try to optimize my time and do the best job possible with what I have on hand. Theres also room to learn right?
OK so I'm attending a car meet this Saturday and plan to use my car to advertise my services... of course, I need to roll up in there with the best looking car (paint wise) and use it to strike up some conversations about my services.
The only time I'll have to detail is Friday afternoon / evening in my friend's shop. Given the short amount of time I have, I want to fully utilize my time.
For this thread, lets say I'll have ~7 hours to use for exterior only.
Currently the car has Zaino Z5 on it so that'll need to be stripped. Was planning on using CG CW&G at car prep ratio to strip it but since I'm in a time crunch, I might need to reconsider. Can I strip the protection the day before and just ONR it before claying?
This is my plan of attack:
Wash
Megs blue clay w/ ONR lube
Rinse and dry
PC7424 will be used for paint correction:
Paint isn't that bad so I'm thinking 5.5" LC orange + M205 followed by 5.5" LC white or gray + Zaino ZPC to remove micromarring. Trouble spots / RID's will get 4" LC orange + M105 followed by the same finishing combo. Hopefully I'll be able to acheive 95% correction. IPA wipedowns in between passes too.
Sealant:
2x ZFX'd Z5 -> Z6-> ZFX'd Z2 -> Z6
LSP:
Collinite 915 on top... will it bond? I also have Pinnacle XMT 180.
Glass:
Clean with DG 761
Then? I normally apply DG AquaWax for my clients.
Wheels / Tires: (I have clearcoated Gun Metal wheels)
Clean with F* wheel cleaner, Megs APC and various brushes
Zaino ZAIO + Z2 on wheels
Black Magic Titanium Matte Finish on tires
Exhaust:
Optimum Metal Polish
Other items in my arsenal that can be used / added:
DG Aquawax
F* UPP (don't really know how to use this... its the spray version)
PB SSR2.5
Black Wow
Please advise! I want the best sealant / wax combination possible.
My car is a Nighthawk Black 2005 Acura TL.
OK so I'm attending a car meet this Saturday and plan to use my car to advertise my services... of course, I need to roll up in there with the best looking car (paint wise) and use it to strike up some conversations about my services.
The only time I'll have to detail is Friday afternoon / evening in my friend's shop. Given the short amount of time I have, I want to fully utilize my time.
For this thread, lets say I'll have ~7 hours to use for exterior only.
Currently the car has Zaino Z5 on it so that'll need to be stripped. Was planning on using CG CW&G at car prep ratio to strip it but since I'm in a time crunch, I might need to reconsider. Can I strip the protection the day before and just ONR it before claying?
This is my plan of attack:
Wash
Megs blue clay w/ ONR lube
Rinse and dry
PC7424 will be used for paint correction:
Paint isn't that bad so I'm thinking 5.5" LC orange + M205 followed by 5.5" LC white or gray + Zaino ZPC to remove micromarring. Trouble spots / RID's will get 4" LC orange + M105 followed by the same finishing combo. Hopefully I'll be able to acheive 95% correction. IPA wipedowns in between passes too.
Sealant:
2x ZFX'd Z5 -> Z6-> ZFX'd Z2 -> Z6
LSP:
Collinite 915 on top... will it bond? I also have Pinnacle XMT 180.
Glass:
Clean with DG 761
Then? I normally apply DG AquaWax for my clients.
Wheels / Tires: (I have clearcoated Gun Metal wheels)
Clean with F* wheel cleaner, Megs APC and various brushes
Zaino ZAIO + Z2 on wheels
Black Magic Titanium Matte Finish on tires
Exhaust:
Optimum Metal Polish
Other items in my arsenal that can be used / added:
DG Aquawax
F* UPP (don't really know how to use this... its the spray version)
PB SSR2.5
Black Wow
Please advise! I want the best sealant / wax combination possible.
My car is a Nighthawk Black 2005 Acura TL.
Oh I forgot...
Lights:
Headlights - 4" LC white + M205
Tails - tinted with overlays... anything I should do to these? Pretty new so no swirls
Engine bay:
Megs APC 4:1
303 Protectant
Random things:
Plastic window visors - swirled to hell... what can I use?
B pillar - 4" LC white + M205
Lights:
Headlights - 4" LC white + M205
Tails - tinted with overlays... anything I should do to these? Pretty new so no swirls
Engine bay:
Megs APC 4:1
303 Protectant
Random things:
Plastic window visors - swirled to hell... what can I use?
B pillar - 4" LC white + M205
Suzuka Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,424
Likes: 294
From: Trail BC CanaDUH
Just going to make 2 comments here
1) you don't need to strip the Z5 as the first pass with a PC and any polish is going to do that.
2) Sealant:
2x ZFX'd Z5 -> Z6-> ZFX'd Z2 -> Z6
LSP:
Collinite 915 on top... will it bond? I also have Pinnacle XMT 180.
The Z products are a LSP .. you don't need the 915 unless your doing it for looks. If thats the case you still need to wait at least 24 hours after the last Z2 etc. Take a look at the Zaino site .. are you sure you can do 4 layers of Z in one session.. If I remember right even with ZFX it was 3 layers max unless they have changed.
1) you don't need to strip the Z5 as the first pass with a PC and any polish is going to do that.
2) Sealant:
2x ZFX'd Z5 -> Z6-> ZFX'd Z2 -> Z6
LSP:
Collinite 915 on top... will it bond? I also have Pinnacle XMT 180.
The Z products are a LSP .. you don't need the 915 unless your doing it for looks. If thats the case you still need to wait at least 24 hours after the last Z2 etc. Take a look at the Zaino site .. are you sure you can do 4 layers of Z in one session.. If I remember right even with ZFX it was 3 layers max unless they have changed.
Just going to make 2 comments here
1) you don't need to strip the Z5 as the first pass with a PC and any polish is going to do that.
2) Sealant:
2x ZFX'd Z5 -> Z6-> ZFX'd Z2 -> Z6
LSP:
Collinite 915 on top... will it bond? I also have Pinnacle XMT 180.
The Z products are a LSP .. you don't need the 915 unless your doing it for looks. If thats the case you still need to wait at least 24 hours after the last Z2 etc. Take a look at the Zaino site .. are you sure you can do 4 layers of Z in one session.. If I remember right even with ZFX it was 3 layers max unless they have changed.
1) you don't need to strip the Z5 as the first pass with a PC and any polish is going to do that.
2) Sealant:
2x ZFX'd Z5 -> Z6-> ZFX'd Z2 -> Z6
LSP:
Collinite 915 on top... will it bond? I also have Pinnacle XMT 180.
The Z products are a LSP .. you don't need the 915 unless your doing it for looks. If thats the case you still need to wait at least 24 hours after the last Z2 etc. Take a look at the Zaino site .. are you sure you can do 4 layers of Z in one session.. If I remember right even with ZFX it was 3 layers max unless they have changed.
I still have to wait 24 hours to apply 915 even if my last coat of Z2 is ZFX'd?
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Using a clay bar will definitely compromise the coats of protection, but it isn't guaranteed to completely remove coats of protection. If the protection is fading and is weak, chances are it will remove most, if not all of it, but I've used clay on fresh coats of protection and the surface still beaded nicely after.
Regarding the Collinite on top of the Zaino, as other mentioned, I'd do it only for looks reasons and only after Zaino has fully cured.
If you are striving for perfection and looking for the best possible results, I think stripping the protection prior to prep work is the way to go.
My
George
Last edited by DetailedImage; Jun 3, 2009 at 12:20 PM.
Former Sponsor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 9
From: Thousand Oaks, CA
Polishing over coats of protection could potentially change the way a polish reacts on the paint.........
I've used clay on fresh coats of protection and the surface still beaded nicely after........
Last edited by exceldetail; Jun 3, 2009 at 12:30 PM.
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George, thanks for your input. I was under the impression that ZFX cured Z2/5 right away.
In terms of LSP, its either Zaino or 915 then? Will there be any adverse effects if I top the Zaino with 915? Since this is essentially for a show, look are everything!
I think I will strip my Z5... been wanting to try out my CG CW&G anyway.
ZFX™ can be used with any of our Show Car Polish products, including Z-2™, Z-3™ and Z-5™. Plus, ZFX™ makes using Z-1™ Polish Lok unnecessary. Using ZFX™ in place of Z-1™ Polish Lok will promote cross-linking, reduce drying time, increase gloss factor, extend durability level, and instantly cure to allow multiple immediate coats! No more waiting between coats!
I think I will strip my Z5... been wanting to try out my CG CW&G anyway.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
But thats the result of the clay. Even on a tattered, neglected surface, claying will leave water beading. My recent evaluation of a polymer clay on my Expedition resulted in beautiful dew beads the following morning. I actually had to think twice as to whether or not I applied a spray wax for temporary protection (which I hadn't).
I guess this is what makes detailing so unique as there are so many opinions, theories, techniques and products out there all trying to achieve the same result.
George
2012 SH-AWD / Advanced
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 700
Likes: 10
From: Columbus, OH
I always attempt to strip any previous LSP prior to polishing. You never know what's on a customer's car (although you do your own), and there are some LSP's that can wreak havoc on the polishing process. If there's any kind of silicones in particular, not only will it do bad things to the polish and buffer, but you can fight it forever and have difficulties even reaching the clear because the silicone acts as a barrier (I'm not a chemist...but you get my point).
I use a heavy ratio of CGCWC, then if it appears there are any remnants I'll also do an IPA wipedown as well.
If it still looks suspect, then I'll use Hi-Temp Prep Wash (removes silicone) or Prep Solv, or Spray Nine. It only takes a little bit of time, but can potentially save a lot of time in the end to have a perfectly clean surface to polish on.
I'm not saying that MY way is THE way, but based on experience with finicky existing LSP's, I've always made it a point (after learning the hard way) to strip everything off before polishing. If I don't use one of the 3 methods I listed, and find the paint to be difficult, then I'll stop what I'm doing, back up a step, and proceed to clean the surface even further before continuing.
My .02 worth...
I use a heavy ratio of CGCWC, then if it appears there are any remnants I'll also do an IPA wipedown as well.
If it still looks suspect, then I'll use Hi-Temp Prep Wash (removes silicone) or Prep Solv, or Spray Nine. It only takes a little bit of time, but can potentially save a lot of time in the end to have a perfectly clean surface to polish on.
I'm not saying that MY way is THE way, but based on experience with finicky existing LSP's, I've always made it a point (after learning the hard way) to strip everything off before polishing. If I don't use one of the 3 methods I listed, and find the paint to be difficult, then I'll stop what I'm doing, back up a step, and proceed to clean the surface even further before continuing.
My .02 worth...
Will properly prep the surface before polishing.
2012 SH-AWD / Advanced
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 700
Likes: 10
From: Columbus, OH
Keep in mind I'm not throwing out a blanket statement for ALL LSP's! I don't use Zaino, so I can't comment on that. It has been stated that Zaino easily comes off during the polishing stage, and I have no reason to dispute that.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,424
Likes: 294
From: Trail BC CanaDUH
Hmmm but I'll be claying before polishing. I want a "blank canvas" to start work on... if this is the case, then why do people strip protection prior to paint correction?
Yes I'm doing it for looks. I know Zaino is a LSP but its technically a sealant right? Anyway, I'm doing 2 layers of Z5 and 1 layer of Z2... so its a total of 3... not 4.
I still have to wait 24 hours to apply 915 even if my last coat of Z2 is ZFX'd?
Yes I'm doing it for looks. I know Zaino is a LSP but its technically a sealant right? Anyway, I'm doing 2 layers of Z5 and 1 layer of Z2... so its a total of 3... not 4.
I still have to wait 24 hours to apply 915 even if my last coat of Z2 is ZFX'd?
I would wait 24 ... same reason Sal says only do 3 Z in a day .. even tho ZFXd it needs time to cross link and cure ... I guess ZFX can only do so much ..
Cruisin'
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: c
I'm with Todd on this one... had way too many experiences where I didn't clay with an aggressive clay (used only Meg's smooth surface) or nothing at all, and fought with the rotary... after claying and wiping down the paint with P21S TAW or Hi-Temp Prep Wash it's noticeably easier to polish.
OT.. how do you like the PW Todd?
OT.. how do you like the PW Todd?
2012 SH-AWD / Advanced
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 700
Likes: 10
From: Columbus, OH
I'm with Todd on this one... had way too many experiences where I didn't clay with an aggressive clay (used only Meg's smooth surface) or nothing at all, and fought with the rotary... after claying and wiping down the paint with P21S TAW or Hi-Temp Prep Wash it's noticeably easier to polish.
OT.. how do you like the PW Todd?
OT.. how do you like the PW Todd?
Former Sponsor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 9
From: Thousand Oaks, CA
Thanks goodness we all have opinions or we would all be using identical products as well. I respect your guys' opinions.
I cant say I have ever had a problem removing, or polishing through a sealant or Nuba though. And that all certainly relates to products being used.
I cant say I have ever had a problem removing, or polishing through a sealant or Nuba though. And that all certainly relates to products being used.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,107
Likes: 4
From: Ottawa, Canaduh!
Great info guys!
I'm prepping for my Summer detail this weekend. I'll be trying many new Optimum products (OPII, Final Polish, Poli-Seal, etc...) as I had used ZFX treated Zaino LSPs last Fall; which I found have really held up well over the Winter/Spring.
I'm still a relative detailing noob, and was going to use the Dawn wash as a method of removing past LSP before claying & polishing, etc (as recommended on the Zaino site).
Good strategy? What say the pros?
I'm prepping for my Summer detail this weekend. I'll be trying many new Optimum products (OPII, Final Polish, Poli-Seal, etc...) as I had used ZFX treated Zaino LSPs last Fall; which I found have really held up well over the Winter/Spring.
I'm still a relative detailing noob, and was going to use the Dawn wash as a method of removing past LSP before claying & polishing, etc (as recommended on the Zaino site).
Good strategy? What say the pros?
From what I've read, theres a lot of variation to how people prep for polishing.
Dawn is frowned upon by many.. too harsh I think...? I've seen many detailers use Chemical Guys Citrus Wash & Gloss at "car prep" ratio (2oz/gal). Others just polish thru the LSP.
To me, it makes sense to start with a "blank canvas"... Dawn has worked for me but will be trying the CG stuff after work today!
I'll let the experts chime in though.
Dawn is frowned upon by many.. too harsh I think...? I've seen many detailers use Chemical Guys Citrus Wash & Gloss at "car prep" ratio (2oz/gal). Others just polish thru the LSP.
To me, it makes sense to start with a "blank canvas"... Dawn has worked for me but will be trying the CG stuff after work today!
I'll let the experts chime in though.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,107
Likes: 4
From: Ottawa, Canaduh!
Perhaps I'll try a jug of the CG stuff. Geez, I just put in two pricey orders to eshine.ca and I still have more stuff to get! lol
^ I have PB SSS and I haven't heard of anyone used it as a polish prep.
I've been routinely placing $100+ orders weekly! I've addicting but at least I make it back on the weekends.
I've been routinely placing $100+ orders weekly! I've addicting but at least I make it back on the weekends.
Gonna go this route to save time. I ordered ZCS and Z8 so I'll give my car the full Zaino treatment in a couple months.
For now, once I finish with M205 and LC white, I'll jewel with ZAIO and LC gray.
Then apply F*UPP (spray)... let it cure and squeeze in a coat of 915 all before noon the next day
For now, once I finish with M205 and LC white, I'll jewel with ZAIO and LC gray.
Then apply F*UPP (spray)... let it cure and squeeze in a coat of 915 all before noon the next day
Arghhhhhhhhhhh I'm soooo annoyed.
So I spent the night detailing my car... time was tight so I had to skip a couple steps..
Earlier in the day I got some vinyl overlaays for my tail lights. I asked the guy if it was ok to tape over and he said yes.
At the end of my detail, I was removing all the tape and the 3M painters tape left a ton of residue on the overlays!!!!!!!!!! FUUUUUUUUUK. I had some GooGone so I tried to carefully rub it all off... got some smears around my tail lights now.
All that work and its ruined by these smears.... I tried a QD but they aren't really coming off.
I'm exhausted and sooooooo frustrated!
So I spent the night detailing my car... time was tight so I had to skip a couple steps..
Earlier in the day I got some vinyl overlaays for my tail lights. I asked the guy if it was ok to tape over and he said yes.
At the end of my detail, I was removing all the tape and the 3M painters tape left a ton of residue on the overlays!!!!!!!!!! FUUUUUUUUUK. I had some GooGone so I tried to carefully rub it all off... got some smears around my tail lights now.
All that work and its ruined by these smears.... I tried a QD but they aren't really coming off.
I'm exhausted and sooooooo frustrated!
Former Sponsor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 9
From: Thousand Oaks, CA
You may have quite possible ruined your overlays with the goo gone........I hate that stuff, and cringe when I see it brought up in detailing forums.....You do know, GG is meant to remove vinyl stcikers?
OK I ended up skipping the "jeweling" step because I ran out of time. Topped with F*UPP.. let it cure overnight and spray DGAW right before heading out to the meet.
It ended up being a cloudy day but I still got a lot of people coming up and asking me who details my car
I ended up getting 2 jobs!
I had business cards designed but didn't have enough time to print them out for this meet.
It ended up being a cloudy day but I still got a lot of people coming up and asking me who details my car
I ended up getting 2 jobs!
I had business cards designed but didn't have enough time to print them out for this meet.
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