I just picked up my new PWP TSX from the dealer today. I have been reading the threads about claying your car and then apply multiple coats of polish and was planning to do it this weekend. The advice seems to be to remove any waxes and dirt with dishsoap before claying the car.

I found out that the dealer used some sort of "professional" polish to prep the car before I picked it up, but they didn't do that good of a job (there seems to be particles in the paint and its not that shiny). If I want to clay the car do I need to remove this polish or just clay overtop of it? If so then how can your remove the polish?

Thanks for any help

 

I would say just wash the car with some Dawn soap and that should remove anything before claying the car.

You don't want to wash the car with dish soap every time, but I think you know that. Take some pics when you're finished!

 

You can clay on top of it. The clay will pick up particles and remove them from behind wax, etc like a razor.


I don't follow the dawn routine anymore, while I use to think it was good, i find it better to move forward instead of backwards. A good polishing will remove what ever is on there now. But you should be fine w/ a clay and then doing whatever prep you want to do.

 

You need to wash the car anyway before you clay, so why not with Dawn?

A good polishing will NOT remove whatever is on there now. All you will manage to do is cover up and seal in contaniments.

Dawn, clay, polish isnt taking any steps backwards.

 

You should wash the car before and after claying. Using dawn once in a while may not be a bad thing, but it is a soap you shouldn't get into a habit of constantly using. There are softer soaps designed for use on cars that you should look into. I use Sonax, and it works damn good! Either way, on the second wash I would really recommend to NOT use dawn if you use it the first time. It's your car, but just my advise and .02 After claying, polish it, then use a sealer/ glaze, then cleaner wax, and finally a good caranuba. Your car will shine like nothing you've ever seen. Just some input for ya!

 

Let me clarify my post by saying that I dont mean to use dawn every time you wash. I Zaino every 6 months and only then would I dawn, clay and polish. The rest of the time I wash once a week and wax once a month.

 

 

Dawn has a very high alkaline content, not something I'd want on my paint. The zaino guys swear by it, but if you notice no one else does. Also, if you don't want to bother w/ a polishing instead of dawn use a good paint cleaner like the ones griots has or an alcohol/water mix. If you want to use Dawn go for it, but I know I wouldn't use it on my acura's paint let alone the $7k one I have on my hot rod, there are safer and better methods out there.


And yes, a good polishing WILL remove whatever is on there now. That is what the point of polishing really is. Polishes for the most part have abbrassives, those abbrassives cut down, you are telling me they'll cut through clear coat but not what's already on there?




For the most part, polishes don't really seal, but do their job breaking down the paint and then are removed.

 

Using Dawn twice a year isnt goint to do anything to the paint. I've been doing it for quite some time now.

Well, if detailing is your profession, then I wont argue with you. But it seems to me the consensus from a lot of different boards is the dawn, clay, polish and wax. I guess some people have their own methods, and if it works, then thats fine too...

 

Using a harsh soap to remove old wax is a backwards step. Using a good polish to remove old wax is a step forward.

Just something to think about.

 

As I said, if it's something you want to do and feel comfortable doing it, then go ahead. Go on a real detailing forum and you'll get mixed reviews on dawn, but for the most part, none of the seasoned detailers or pros will touch it.


There was no such thing as washing w/ dawn from my understanding until Zaino came along, and to this day I still have NEVER EVER seen any other manufacturer recommend it.

 

Hmmm, I'll have to look into that.

What would the mixture be for the alcohol/water? Im up for trying new methods...

 

Detailing is a funny thing, everyone does things differently and comes to similiar results. If you are comfortable w/ what you are doing then great.

 

50/50 mix of Isopropyl Alcohol and water


do some searching on autopia.org for some more info on this

 

Also, just to throw a little nudge into the censensus of dawn and other detailing boards. For the most part on all boards I've visited a LARGE amount of members out there think Zaino is the best and only.


That's simply not true, and the best part about it is most haven't even bothered to try other things. Zaino is a great product, the best, no IMO, does it have it's perfect times and places? Definately

 

I havent tried everything out there. But I think its probably the best bang for the buck. I've been using it for a while now, but by no means am I a loyalist. Just sometimes its eaiser to stick with what you know, you know?

 

Klasse, plus P21S = great stuff!

 

except this is Megs #83, #80, NXT, topped w/ p21s/S100. The S100 really brought the richness to it




http://www.reflections-detailing.net...eflections.jpg

 

S100 ?

 

S100 is p21s but labeled differently (even has the same case) and sold at harley dealers for $14

 

This tends to be a touchy subject with some folks when it comes to Dawn. I myself used to be a firm believer in dawn as the first step to a complete detail. That was, until I realized it was a redundant step and not necessary. Any car wash solution works fine at this point because claying and polishing will remove any leftover waxes or sealants. If I'm doing a car that I know has a synthetic sealant over it I will always follow up the claying with a quick coat of Acrysol to insure the removal of that particular synthetic.

The reason Sal wants you to use Dawn is because Zanio has 99.8% optical clarity and any an all contaminants need to be removed before proper bonding can take place. Zanio needs perfectly clean paint in order to bond properly. Dawn breaks down the oils that are left over from the polishing. Sal will also recommend Z7 after the dawn wash to begin the process.

Many other companie's line of products work well together and the need for a Dawn wash isnt necessary after polishing. For example, the Einszetts Glanz needs no wash prior to application following their line of polishes.

Zanio works very well but there are many other combinations that work just as well if not better. As far as durability is concerned, Zanio rated highest in the Guru Reports Wax Test. This is in the synthetic catagory. But there are a handful of combos that really give the car that extra "pop" that Zanio just doesnt provide. My personal favorite is the Klasse twins followed by PUPP. Once I discovered this combo, I never looked back.

 

Klasse is good stuff, but also not so easy to work with. You have to experiment w/ timing in regards to taking applications off, especially if doing it by hand. Take it off too early, and it is pointless to have even put it on. Take it off too late, and your arms will be sore for a week.
I think I have pretty much got it down and the results are amazing. I can wash the car, and it will shine like no other, even without a wax application.

CLpower-- So S100 and P21S are EXACTLY the same thing? Why such a difference in price? I pay almost double for a container of P21S

 

I still haven't worked w/ klasse, or menz, but those are both on my list. I'd also like to get into some of the Clear Kote products, my problem is I have a GALLON of both Megs #83 and #80 that will take me some time to get through



CMF, Yes, they are identical. Why such a price difference? Who knows, kind of like heinz selling their ketchup for $4 when the vons brand ketchup is bottled by heinz but sold for $3. Just marketing. They probably realized most harley guys wouldn't want to pay $30 for a wax.

Now that you know though, your next p21s purchase should be done at a harley dealer

 

Personally Wash, Clay, polish, wax, Im a Big fan however of the Mothers 3 step package, this is the easiest way to get the car in pristene condition, just gotta fix the fuc*in rock chips in the door, filled them in w/ wax unfortinutly so I have friggin white dots on the side of my car, ech, think im gonna have to get the mudd flaps or somethin

 

This is in no way intended to start trouble, but I cant belive you had a hard time with Klasse. There is no timing factor to speak of period. If you dampen a MF applicator pad and apply the AIO you can literally have the applicator in one hand and the buffing towel in the other. The AIO bonds instantly with the paint and needs no set up time whatsoever. I once applied AIO to my test trunk lid and let it sit for a week in the garage and if buffed off with no effort at all. After a week of it sitting! Now the SG can be a little tricky. For best application I use the PC and a black pad and a low setting like 3. I work it until it flashes and then let it sit for about 30 minutes before removing. The SG needs to be applied very thin. If you choose to appy it by hand then you have to follow the rule of (if you can see it going on, your're using too much) This is why I apply it with the PC. And the nonsense of letting the SG cure for 24 hours before you remove it is just that, nonsense. If you apply the SG with the PC the friction and heat speed up the curing process and removal can begin in 20-30 minutes. For my own car I apply the AIO, SG combo and then the next week a wash and one more coat of SG and then I apply the PUPP to give it the "pop". The PUPP is a polymer sealant that chemicaly bonds with the SG leaving the "wet finish" look.

I've helped steer many friends and family members alike to the Klasse route due to its ease of use and have heard nothing but great sucess stories from it. My aunt even did her car herself with the AIO by hand and she said she couldnt belive how easy it was. And shes 60.

Are you dampening the MF applicator before you apply? This may be your problem as it tends to be difficult to remove if the pad isnt moist. You can also use a quick detail spray or distilled water to help in removal if its giving you trouble.

 

Thanks, everyone's been a great help. I have decide to go with Klasse aio and SG.

What is PUPP? I've never heard of that before.

Also, has anyone tried P21S over top of the Klasse SG? Does it really make a big difference?

 

I've tried P21S over a few things, it always made a difference. Gives it more of a wet glossy look usually. I'm going to try it over Zaino tommorrow. I will post many pictures.

 

PUPP is a Four Star product called Premium Ultimate Paint Protection, or PUPP for short. Its a polymer paint sealant that bonds very well with the SG. However, I've tried it before on just clean paint with no SG and the effect is minimal. For some reason the SG under the PUPP causes a chemical nirvana and leaves the paint almost feeling slimy to the touch, but its just an illusion to your skin as there is no residue left on your hand at all. The finish looks wet and has exterme depth. The Klasse twins and PUPP combo works great on lighter colored cars too. It really gives it the "pop" that normal carnubas wont. If you reapply the PUPP frequently, the SG never leaves so topping with PUPP is all that is needed monthly. Then just do your regular major detail once every six months or so.

Topping AIO or SG with any carnuba seems to be a redundant step. Depending on your climate a carnuba only offers protection to the painted surfaces for about two weeks, no matter how you slice it. You also begin to see the Law of Diminished Return take affect once you start topping a synthetic with carnuba.

 

I use P21S on top of Klasse.
I don't use water or any sprays when polishing/ waxing. Didn't think that was something I should do, in my mind it defeats the purpose to mix water with any kind of wax or polish. I don't understand why you would leave the SG on for so long. I do it all by hand, but I have read several recommendations about Klasse SG that it should NOT be left on for a prolonged period of time. You should have it off as soon as it is drying to a haze. I have no problems with the AIO, but have experienced some with the SG in regards to when it should be removed. Maybe using a buffer helps more.

 

Well, yes and no. The Klasse people will tell you that the SG should be left on for at least 12 hours and as long as 24. Since most people dont have that kind of time or are willing to commit to that , I started using the PC to apply the SG, which the heat and friction from this speeds up the flashing process. This is the only way I can gaurantee that it gets applied thin enough. If you are having trouble removing it it can be because you are applying it too thick. Like I said earlier, if you can see it going on you're using too much. I fill up a spray bottle with SG (I picked up a bunch of really good small ones at a local beauty supply store that spray a very fine mist) and apply one squirt to a black Lake Country pad and set the PC to 3. This insures a very thin layer as I work it until it flashes and it begins to dissapear. Once I cant see it anymore I know its been applied correctly. I will follow these steps until the entire car is complete then maybe go take a lunch break for about an hour or begin work on interior. After about that time it should be ready to remove. If it has not flashed up properly then you will run into difficulty with removal. This is where a detail spray comes in. Or distilled water. By doing this you will not be removing or diluting the SG like you thought. The SG has already bonded with the AIO and all you are removing is the waste product so to speak.

You are in no way defeating the purpose of the SG or AIO by wetting the applicator. You are however eliminating some of the friction and allowing the AIO or SG to glide over the surface more evenly thus allowing for easier removal. I will often use a shot of quick detail spray on the applicator pad for the same purpose as the water, infact I prefer the QD spray over water as it eliminates friction altogether and does'nt dilute the Klasse one bit.

 

Wow, acronym city!

 

I know, but it takes too long to type out every word. Its just easier this way.

 

Thanks for the tips TSXtc....I'll try it out next time!

 

good to see some good avid detailers around these boards, the CL section is dead. Hopefully we'll get these all merged eventually

 

I can't see spending money on a car and not taking care of it. A great shine helps out with cracking a few necks as people see me drive by too!

 

Uh oh, your old screen name didnt used to be Floridaowner, did it???

 

i hope you are being sarcastic TSXtc cmf has been a member for awhile now lol. And he isnt a complete moron

 

come on now......of course i was

 

I am not sure if I should take that as a compliment or not!

 

lol my bad cmf what i meant was floridaowner=complete moron therefore you couldnt be him HAHA again sry for that misunderstandin LoL