OEM Toe Arm Adjustment Range / Alignment Question / F*** Canadian Rust
#1
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
OEM Toe Arm Adjustment Range / Alignment Question / F*** Canadian Rust
Hey folks,
Just wanted to ask for a second opinion since there are lots of knowledgeable folks when it comes to the 3G suspension.
I'm trying to figure out on the best way to get my rear back in spec toe-wise, as my OEM arms/adjustment bolts are seized to infinity and beyond. I'm lowered on Tein Street Advance, the rear is maxed out and I have -3 degrees of natural camber. The -3 doesn't bother me, but the wheels are pretty heavily toed in and this needs to get fixed ASAP before I can take the car on longer drives.
I have two choices:
1, Go with new OEM arms and new OEM bolts/hardware. No real disadvantage but I wont get camber adjustment. After pricing it out, it will be a cool $270 canadian after taxes, shipping etc etc. I will also have money left over to potentially go for SPC Upper Arms.
2, Go with the Hardrace arms, which will have both camber and toe adjustment, and will be overall stiffer/better than stock, albeit a fair bit more expensive. At 550$ without shipping or taxes, and without hardware which will be another 60$ from Heeltoe. Prospect of better handling is definitely a bonus, but at 600+ dollars, Ouchies on the cost.
My main worry right now is that this low, with -3 degrees of camber, the stock arm isn't going to cut it in terms of the adjustment range for toe. What do you think? I don't REALLY want to go with the SPC upper arms because at that point its going to be almost as expensive as the hard race arms, without the added benefit thereof.
My main question then has to be how much adjustment range is available with the stock toe arms? Will I be able to get the rear back in spec toe wise with a 2.5 inch drop?
Thoughts/suggestions?
Thanks in advance, from a slightly bewildered Aziner
Just wanted to ask for a second opinion since there are lots of knowledgeable folks when it comes to the 3G suspension.
I'm trying to figure out on the best way to get my rear back in spec toe-wise, as my OEM arms/adjustment bolts are seized to infinity and beyond. I'm lowered on Tein Street Advance, the rear is maxed out and I have -3 degrees of natural camber. The -3 doesn't bother me, but the wheels are pretty heavily toed in and this needs to get fixed ASAP before I can take the car on longer drives.
I have two choices:
1, Go with new OEM arms and new OEM bolts/hardware. No real disadvantage but I wont get camber adjustment. After pricing it out, it will be a cool $270 canadian after taxes, shipping etc etc. I will also have money left over to potentially go for SPC Upper Arms.
2, Go with the Hardrace arms, which will have both camber and toe adjustment, and will be overall stiffer/better than stock, albeit a fair bit more expensive. At 550$ without shipping or taxes, and without hardware which will be another 60$ from Heeltoe. Prospect of better handling is definitely a bonus, but at 600+ dollars, Ouchies on the cost.
My main worry right now is that this low, with -3 degrees of camber, the stock arm isn't going to cut it in terms of the adjustment range for toe. What do you think? I don't REALLY want to go with the SPC upper arms because at that point its going to be almost as expensive as the hard race arms, without the added benefit thereof.
My main question then has to be how much adjustment range is available with the stock toe arms? Will I be able to get the rear back in spec toe wise with a 2.5 inch drop?
Thoughts/suggestions?
Thanks in advance, from a slightly bewildered Aziner
#3
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
You should peruse the following thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/tires-w...review-864705/
The arms are actually technically for the 03-07 Accord/04-08 TSX but they will work on thr TL and insofar as I can tell are the best option if you want to further tighten up your rear.
The Ingalls arms are at this point absolutely out of the question considering the current amount of disgruntled Ingalls users that all say they have issues with the squirrely feel of the bushings.
The arms are actually technically for the 03-07 Accord/04-08 TSX but they will work on thr TL and insofar as I can tell are the best option if you want to further tighten up your rear.
The Ingalls arms are at this point absolutely out of the question considering the current amount of disgruntled Ingalls users that all say they have issues with the squirrely feel of the bushings.
#4
04' tl 6 spd
Yes ..... I feel the same regarding Ingalls .... I'm still debating on new stock lower arms with spc upper arm.... my rear end feels sloppy and it's passing me off .... visually everthting looks fine and I have done multiple alignment sessions and wasn't happy with the results...... I'm running koni sp3 with tein stech springs......... 18×9.5 +36....... 255/35/18 ......... definitely gonna do some research on hard race arms
#5
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
Do you have the Progress rsb? Frankly if you're on OEM arms and your rear feels sloppy, I doubt the arms are the issue. The OEM ones are pretty bulletproof since they use spherical bearings on one side and fairly stiff bushings on the other.
#6
04' tl 6 spd
Stock sway bar...... Yaa your right maybe I need a shop like can-alignment to do it right ... heard good things about them ......Thanks for your info...... my toe is bad chewing my rubber
Last edited by Joey tl; 04-24-2015 at 06:41 PM.
#10
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
Exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks paper. Going to mull things over and see if I want to pull the trigger on the Hardrace arms or just go OEM and SPC upper. I'm just really nervous that the arm/toe bolt will seize and I'll be back in the same boat next year. Any ideas on how to prevent this? Anti-seize and prayer? I mean the shop I went to that specializes in Honda and Acura performance event told me that the grand majority of TLs and Accords they work on ALL have seized toe arms, which they rarely if ever manage to un-seize.
#12
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
That's the upper arms - you can just go with the SPC ones if you want upper arms. The lateral arms from hard race are HR-6697 and HR-6675. The 6675 have full spherical bearings all around, and are probably best avoided for street use. What cfv22 (the user who got the HR arms) did was buy both kits, and mix and match to get a combination that is close to OEM.
The OEM arms have rubber bushings on one side and spherical bearings on the other I believe. He mixed and matched the kit to get a similar setup. He suggested that if one were to use only spherical bearings, the rear would be too stiff, at least for a street car.
The OEM arms have rubber bushings on one side and spherical bearings on the other I believe. He mixed and matched the kit to get a similar setup. He suggested that if one were to use only spherical bearings, the rear would be too stiff, at least for a street car.
#13
Jeff
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go with OEM and spc, and get your car undercoated in the fall and you should be good....
or do what I do , just don't drive it in the winter lol and save up to get something else for the harsh canadian months... i don't drive it in the winter and still get it undercoated just for peace of mind
regardless you should just get it undercoated and all should be ok in terms of rust and seizing.
Canadian winters are certainly no good for cars eh? I'm currently dealing with some rusty rear wheel wells from the previous owner, I've found myself literally replacing EVERYTHING underneath the car lol, fuck it
or do what I do , just don't drive it in the winter lol and save up to get something else for the harsh canadian months... i don't drive it in the winter and still get it undercoated just for peace of mind
regardless you should just get it undercoated and all should be ok in terms of rust and seizing.
Canadian winters are certainly no good for cars eh? I'm currently dealing with some rusty rear wheel wells from the previous owner, I've found myself literally replacing EVERYTHING underneath the car lol, fuck it
Last edited by Oh Sickest TL; 04-24-2015 at 10:13 PM.
#14
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
Not driving it in the winter is not an option for me sadly. She's my DD. She doesn't see more than 46 kms daily though (5 times a week), which all things considered is not a lot.
The reason I really want the hardrace arms is the further improvement in the rear handling / firming up the rear. I think that combined with the compliance bearings for the front LCAs that I plan on picking up this summer, this will pretty much put me in perfect handling territory, or at least as close to it as I can get.
The reason I really want the hardrace arms is the further improvement in the rear handling / firming up the rear. I think that combined with the compliance bearings for the front LCAs that I plan on picking up this summer, this will pretty much put me in perfect handling territory, or at least as close to it as I can get.
#15
Advanced
iTrader: (2)
EDIT: found it Link: https://acurazine.com/forums/tires-w...estion-923093/
Last edited by hisost; 04-24-2015 at 11:21 PM.
#16
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
That USED to be an issue. I believe one of the Excelerate reps confirmed that Ingalls has since fixed the problem. I definitely remember reading it on these forums somewhere.
EDIT: found it Link: https://acurazine.com/forums/tires-w...estion-923093/
EDIT: found it Link: https://acurazine.com/forums/tires-w...estion-923093/
One way or another, the Ingalls kit is sub-par compared to OEM, and certainly not a good choice when the SPC upper arm will give you all the camber adjustment you really need if you're going for drivable height / performance. The Hardrace arms are a product that aim to go above and beyond OEM specifications, which is what I'm really looking for. If I wanted stock or crappier, I wouldn't have dumped as much money into my suspension as I already have and will continue to do so.
EDIT: I should add that there are definitely two sides to the story. I'm just not really aiming to gamble with a potentially crappy product, at least for my needs.
Last edited by N1h1l1ty; 04-24-2015 at 11:26 PM.
#17
04' tl 6 spd
think im gonna order the lateral arms from hard race HR-6697......like N1H1l1TY said "I'm just not really aiming to gamble with a potentially crappy product". adjust my toe and chamber with a solid product is a no brainer ..I want something that's going to last ... you know where I could buy them in Canada or I have to order from their website
#19
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
Jebus. OK well thats a +1 for the OEM arms right there
I'm pretty set on the Hardrace arms as I want to put together the best suspension possible, but if they end up being not an option, OEM arms will definitely be going on with some proper anti-seize
I'm pretty set on the Hardrace arms as I want to put together the best suspension possible, but if they end up being not an option, OEM arms will definitely be going on with some proper anti-seize
#20
Burning Brakes
anything you do, DO NOT GET INGALLS kit. I lived with this for 3 years and I'm living proof that kit has issues. The bushings are too soft and the alignment will never been in spec.
#21
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
t-rd, I've been reading all of the threads and I'm definitely not touching it with a 10 foot pole.
Its either OEM or better than OEM pour moi, and it looks like the Hardrace arms will be the key here. I mean, the track CL-S on here uses almost all Hardrace suspension parts and is very happy with them, so I think they will be perfect for what I'm looking for
Its either OEM or better than OEM pour moi, and it looks like the Hardrace arms will be the key here. I mean, the track CL-S on here uses almost all Hardrace suspension parts and is very happy with them, so I think they will be perfect for what I'm looking for
#22
Race Director
With all due respect, I wouldn't take the word of a vendor as gospel. As respected as XLR8 is, their handling of the Ingalls issues on the board along with Heeltoe has been less than stellar.
One way or another, the Ingalls kit is sub-par compared to OEM, and certainly not a good choice when the SPC upper arm will give you all the camber adjustment you really need if you're going for drivable height / performance. ....
One way or another, the Ingalls kit is sub-par compared to OEM, and certainly not a good choice when the SPC upper arm will give you all the camber adjustment you really need if you're going for drivable height / performance. ....
#23
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
If cfvs22 gets back to me this weekend, I should soon be the owner of that second set of Hardrace arms, and will try and give as much feedback on them as possible, as well as document my experience with them in my build thread.
#24
Burning Brakes
Excelerate will never answer you, but he'll keep pushing Ingalls claiming "wider range of adjustment." Every single thread with someone asking about a camber kit, he jumps in and does the same thing. Ingalls is for those driving a dumped car lowered close to or more than 3" without a care in the world whether the tires wear or not.
My car is lowered only 1", and I had serious tire wear problems. I spoke to Ingalls first hand on the phone 3 times, the guy asked me if I take my car to the track. Hell no. It is a daily driver, never been to the track and I drive normally with 5% of spirited driving at home. So anything more than 3", you'll have even more serious problems.
My car is lowered only 1", and I had serious tire wear problems. I spoke to Ingalls first hand on the phone 3 times, the guy asked me if I take my car to the track. Hell no. It is a daily driver, never been to the track and I drive normally with 5% of spirited driving at home. So anything more than 3", you'll have even more serious problems.
Last edited by t-rd; 04-26-2015 at 09:40 AM.
#25
I had the same issues regarding rear toe adjusters seizing up. I was able to get them within specs after replacing with Oem rods and hardware. Camber at -2.5
04 Tl lowered on Neo MotorSport Purple.
04 Tl lowered on Neo MotorSport Purple.
#26
Intermediate
i ran into this same issue this weekend, went to get my alignment done to find out my rear left toe adjustment is seized up, i have no clue what path to take at the moment, my toe at the back left is way out of spec, keep us posted N1h1l1ty, very interested in taking the same path your taking
#27
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
i ran into this same issue this weekend, went to get my alignment done to find out my rear left toe adjustment is seized up, i have no clue what path to take at the moment, my toe at the back left is way out of spec, keep us posted N1h1l1ty, very interested in taking the same path your taking
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Janagan_ua7 (04-27-2015)
#28
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
Also it's somewhat related and I figured I'd chime in - cheapest place to buy SPC upper arms for us canucks appears to be amazon.ca. They have them for 100$ per arm +13 dollars shipping - advantage of this is we won't need to pay brokerage like we would if we ordered stateside!
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Janagan_ua7 (04-27-2015)
#29
Race Director
Also it's somewhat related and I figured I'd chime in - cheapest place to buy SPC upper arms for us canucks appears to be amazon.ca. They have them for 100$ per arm +13 dollars shipping - advantage of this is we won't need to pay brokerage like we would if we ordered stateside!
#30
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
Exchange rate seriously sucks right now too, so no real point.
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Janagan_ua7 (04-28-2015)
#32
Three Wheelin'
I replaced all mine with OEM, and along with progress rsb tightened the back right up. My 8 year old OEM arm bushings were soft, and 3 bolts were seized. Hard race is a great option too, but very expensive and if you don't plan to take it to the track, I think it's a bit over kill for the street. OEM arms with SPC camber if needed and progress rsb or replace new OEM bushings if keeping the stock bar.
#36
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
He did suggest that spherical bearing all around would be too stiff / unforgiving for street.
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cokorote (04-28-2015)
#37
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter
Yeah I know you can go to the airport and do that shit but its a serious hassle with UPS. I hate dealing with those fuckwads, I literally would rather pay 10 bucks more NOT to deal with them.
#39
Confusing Name Guy
Thread Starter