GIBSON6594

Again, using the internet is not ideal on a phone, but why pick a device that is worse at it than another device?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, as good as BB is at some things, unless you NEED a keyboard there is not really much reason to get on over iPhone/Android.

JLatimer

Because the other device does not do the things I do need it to do as well.

Walk onto a construction site. There are air nailers everywhere - you will still see guys with hammers on their belt. Air nailers should have driven hammers into obsolescence but they haven't. Because an old fashioned hammer is the right thing in some cases.

Mizouse

I wouldn't call the iPhone a piece of crap...

silver3.5

I'm not denying that BB is great for business, as it is a business-oriented phone! Many businesses, big or small, still use BB because of its email capability. But that's old news; today's iphones and android can do the same and some even better with all the integration with yahoo, google, twitter, facebook, myspace, etc! Thus, that's why they are taking over RIM's world market share. Just because you see people still using it doesn't mean it is doing well against its competitors. Nokia is the world leader but along with RIM, it is struggling also to keep pace with Apple and Android due to lack of innovation or tailoring to what customers want.

GIBSON6594

Having never used a air nailer, I'm gonna assume a large part of that is because hammers can take nails out and pry materials, which can't be done with a air nailer. Also, they seem to be much larger and unwieldy, which could be a hazard.

What do you need to do on a BB that you can't do on a iphone/android?

silver3.5

That's a good question to ask all those who still use BB.

Yumcha

Um, dude...those have ZERO relevance to most companies.

silver3.5

I was just using them as examples....as those are most common these days! But yes, BB does have its advantage with specific company programs/emails. But that doesn't mean Apple and Android can't do it either!

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Proprietary programs utilizing push with many layers of encryption at low cost. Something my company, one of the largest IT companies out there, needs.

Yumcha

Let's go back to the keyboard thing Sly, me, and others have spoken about earlier.

What can I say: It's a physical thing. And honestly, as behind RIM is in some areas of the cellphone race, those developments are well, more catered to entertainment.

When it comes to practicality, the Blackberry still takes the cake.

GIBSON6594

So you're saying Android and Iphone can't utilize push and encryption?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I never said they couldnt, but can they do it at low cost?

silver3.5

Let's face it. This debate is like debating with my boss, who is 58 years old and a surgeon. His medical records is still paper based. I advised him many times to switch to EMR, as it is today's standard and will be required in the near future for all his certifications. He keeps rejecting it..simply saying "i'm more comfortable with paper!"

silver3.5

How would you know how much it cost? Do you have inside knowledge of BB and how much they integrate this feature into their phones for this many $ compared to the competition?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I know how much we pay per phone. Thats what Im basing this on, not what it costs BB to make.

My company does not use a program that is made by RIM. Its an in-house program. Im sure they could create a program for Android that does the same thing, but the cost would most certainly be higher.

silver3.5

So you're basing this argument just from your lone company. Not a very good argument then.

GIBSON6594

We are not even comparing the factory OS? This isn't really a valid argument.

I thought we were comparing phones and their capabilities.

JLatimer

A fast, effective, secure push email with compression to keep data costs down. And large scale remote management of devices including policy enforcement.

underdog

Conversely, unless you NEED a rich internet experience (which the vast
majority of business users don't) you can't beat the Blackberry as an e-mail
appliance.

Given its preeminence in that market segment, why WOULD you even look at
something else? (again, if what you really NEED is a secure, solid, well supported,
market leading email appliance)

Like civicdriver I will state what I know about the company I work for, and not
make sweeping generalizations about "the world" that can't be backed by
empirical data. The company I work for (6000+ employees, >1B annual sales,
multi-national) predominantly uses Blackberry. Our IT dept. will (grudgingly)
support iPhone and Android devices as well but the corporate workflow for
ordering a phone gives a selection of Blackberry devices only.

Blackberry isn't a great consumer phone. They tried to penetrate that market
and haven't done well. Their products aren't "flashy" and "cool" like an iPhone
or as "open" and "geek friendly" as an Android phone - but in terms of what
they do well - an email appliance business "tool" - they're hard to beat.

CocheseUGA

I've handled a keyboard BB. I owned a Samsung Blackjack and a 8525. I can type faster on my iPhone. I know that's a personal thing, but there it is.

As companies eventually change over to mobile computing, especially in the healthcare sector, they'll need phones that can interact with tablets. This is where an ecosystem like Apple really thrives. Because three people bought the Playbook.

GIBSON6594

I am a corporate user and BB is good for corporate use, but that's about it. If I only used my phone for email, I might consider a BB, but I don't.

I do use it to browse the internet, to access my system remotely through Citrix, to navigate to destinations, to play games, even sometimes as a remote for my Fios TV. All of my Google services are integrated seamlessly, including GMail, Calendar, Google Voice, Finance, Music, and Picassa. And yes, my corporate email is pushed flawlessly. It's a lot more than just rich websites.

I don't want a solid email phone any more than I want a Word Processor. It's not flashy or cool, it's multi-functional, highly purposeful, and more supported than any BB. Take a look at that BB app store, it's awful because no developers want to support a OS that nobody will be using in a few years.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Its not like my company is some little mom-n-pop place from a small town. They employ over 400k people worldwide, and that's not including contractors.

And as underdog said, Im not trying to paint the entire business smartphone landscape with a broad brush. Just trying to show that there still are large corporations in the IT field that still use BBs.

No, Im referring to a singular program. Not a different OS. We're currently running v5.0, which yes, is old, but its an old phone.

Ken1997TL

I wouldn't either, just not my preference at this time for my intended purposes. And that's the entire premise of this discussion. Though some like to completely trash other people's phones and question their intelligence.

Ken1997TL

And your argument isn't very convincing either. I hear a lot of opinions and preferences with few facts or examples to back it up

Different strokes for different folks.

#1 STUNNA

I asked in the bb outage thread and I'll ask again here. What email features does BB have that are so much better than activesync and Exchange that it's worth setting up and maintaining a BES/BIS server?

Ken1997TL

Corporate control and encryption

The US government LOVES the centralized structure and management especially.

#1 STUNNA

Activesync has encryption

doopstr

Bb has more control over the device. Things such as forcing device to lock if not in use for x time, how many failed password attempts before the device wipes itself, and remotely wiping the device. Those things can be managed by the bes server.

But yeah, other than that active sync has caught up. The average small business does not need bb. Bb lost it's ability to inovate and lead the market some years back. They got lazy. I think of them as the Novell of mobile email. Their product is a little bit better but expensive. Novell had the same problem. Microsoft is going to eat them alive.

GIBSON6594

Which is exactly my point. Apple and Android adapted to the corporate world and did what they have to do to make their phones purposeful in that environment.

BB did not do what they needed to do to make their phones relevant in the social environment. That is why they will fail without major and impressive improvements and adaptions.

srika

oddly,

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/op...pagewanted=all
maybe that's why he spent so much time talking about it, maybe so much time that he could not figure it out himself, instead spending his time analyzing it?

srika

btw to everyone who says Steve Jobs never invented anything, this, is what inventing something means:
he was clearly an inventor and a true visionary. and, judging from the above paragraph, in a more dedicated and passionate way than your 'regular' inventor.

Yumcha

^ Definitely. To be fair, I think Steve was indeed an inventor and innovator. There is no doubt about it. That being said, he was not the Fifth Element...the Perfect Being. There are examples of him stealing ideas. But, he also invented some things.

That's all.

doopstr

Notepad? Why not iPad? Spent all that time inventing it and he couldn't even use it to draw his last notes? In the word of Steve Jobs himself, "this is shit."

Ken1997TL

Sounds like Howard Hughes and his adjustable hospital bed he designed while recovering.